The orders for Santiago and Calatrava always spawn Castilian.
On the other hand, the provinces containing locations tied to those orders' historical origins may well have a different culture in-game at the point the Pope starts the crusade era.
Notably:
A more advanced related problem is that these two eponymous locations may not be ideal sources of naming in every game, to begin with, especially Calatrava. Santiago is a holy site, so it could theoretically justify the name even if held by Muslims, but not really Calatrava. Perhaps choosing a different title to name Calatrava after would be a viable solution?
In any case, the problem is perhaps not huge if the orders pop up as a latinized culture despite their eponymous counties remaining Visigothic, because knightly orders are a modern thing, related to knighthood, feudalism, crusading ideas, closely linked to the Church and somewhat closely to the Papacy. Thus, it isn't the worst choice. But if c_Calatrava or c_Santiago already has a non-Visigothic 'target' culture, especially a local Iberian culture (as opposed to e.g. one county in Spain turning Welsh/Frankish/whatever because of the local count's culture), then Castilian doesn't look good. Especially if k_Castille has no holder and even possibly d_Castille has neither.
While at it, I'd consider making the orders:
Long-term idea:
The underlying idea in the last above proposal is that Calatrava on the concept level was a minor military order named after a castle in a place close to the Muslim border, where fighting was going on. In real life that was in c_Calatrava, d_Toledo, k_Andalusia, but in a particular game a different location is very likely to be more appropriate — especially if you didn't start in 1066 AD with the crusades firing off soon thereafter.
This could be a bit of a pain to code, but not too much, and:
So perhaps it could be worth investigating.
On the other hand, the provinces containing locations tied to those orders' historical origins may well have a different culture in-game at the point the Pope starts the crusade era.
Notably:
- Visigothic may be alive and kicking
- Calatrava is in k_Andalusia and may be Andalusian
- Santiago is in Galicia and may be Portguese or perhaps even still Suebi
A more advanced related problem is that these two eponymous locations may not be ideal sources of naming in every game, to begin with, especially Calatrava. Santiago is a holy site, so it could theoretically justify the name even if held by Muslims, but not really Calatrava. Perhaps choosing a different title to name Calatrava after would be a viable solution?
In any case, the problem is perhaps not huge if the orders pop up as a latinized culture despite their eponymous counties remaining Visigothic, because knightly orders are a modern thing, related to knighthood, feudalism, crusading ideas, closely linked to the Church and somewhat closely to the Papacy. Thus, it isn't the worst choice. But if c_Calatrava or c_Santiago already has a non-Visigothic 'target' culture, especially a local Iberian culture (as opposed to e.g. one county in Spain turning Welsh/Frankish/whatever because of the local count's culture), then Castilian doesn't look good. Especially if k_Castille has no holder and even possibly d_Castille has neither.
While at it, I'd consider making the orders:
- spawn as vassals of the appropriate ruler (e.g. holder of c_Calatrava or c_Santiago as appropriate, or the dominant Iberian-cultured Catholic ruler in Iberia, failing that a dominant foreign-cultured ruler in Iberia)
- not spawn at all if there are no more Muslims in Spain (in my current game they spawned in 940 AD, at which time Muslims held only 2 counties in Spain any more and only because those bent knee to the Abbassids)
- not spawn at all if there are no more Catholics in Spain (AND maybe no significant Iberian-cultured Catholics on the outside; you could form military orders out of emigres but not really out of Mozarabic minorities)
- not spawn at all if Byzzies somehow end up in control in Spain (OR spawn as Orthodox orders if appropriate)
Long-term idea:
- dynamically make small orders named after counties in areas next to a Muslim frontier (or pagan frontier if the pagans are the problem) in other kingdoms if more appropriate, e.g. Aquitaine, Sicily, Lombardy/Italy — all of which would probably have fought a long and hard Spanish-style reconquista if they had been in the shoes.
The underlying idea in the last above proposal is that Calatrava on the concept level was a minor military order named after a castle in a place close to the Muslim border, where fighting was going on. In real life that was in c_Calatrava, d_Toledo, k_Andalusia, but in a particular game a different location is very likely to be more appropriate — especially if you didn't start in 1066 AD with the crusades firing off soon thereafter.
This could be a bit of a pain to code, but not too much, and:
- some work could perhaps be saved by importing parts of the custom kingdom mechanic, where you name a kingdom after a duchy
- it would actually be a sensible thing to do I guess, putting that (admittedly somewhat cool) mechanic to more use
- this order-naming mechanic could perhaps be reused in the future for spawning titular duchies (e.g. for younger sons of gavelkind dukes and for republics in some situations) or for naming conventions
- design/research-wise there could be some synergy between this and the AI logic for choosing appropriate capitals for AI's realms
So perhaps it could be worth investigating.
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