SAM vs Ironman

[FRodrigues]

So I created this thread to discuss the pros and cons for using the Steam Achievement Manager with a normal game vs doing an Ironman game to get the EU4 achievements in steam.

IRONMAN:
+It's harder to save scum.
+It's impossible to use cheat commands.
+It's harder to cheat because you need to use a 3rd party software.
+The community generally regards it as a proof that you didn't cheat.
-Bugs can screw your game.
-You can (or can not) get achievements because of certain bugs.
-If you don't backup you can "easily" lose your game. (corrupted file)
-You can save scum by using backups.
-There are exploits that I consider cheating (getting player bonus in Ironman for example)

SAM:
+No more saves every second.
+You can tweak the game settings (use random lucky nations, increase difficulty mid game...)
+You can use mods that increase your enjoyment of the game.
+You need to use your will to not save scum.
-You need to manually award yourself with an Achievement.
-Valve never said that you can use it. (So there's a ban risk)
-It's not easy to prove that you got an achievement fairly. (You can upload your gameplay to youtube but that requires a good pc and internet)
-You can be called a cheater if someone finds out that you use SAM.


I never used SAM, but after I got a female heir with a castle in my capital and didn't get an achievement because a bug in an earlier version of v1.12 and failing trying to get an Italian republic. I'm seriously wondering to use SAM to get achievements and playing non ironman games. I like achievements because they give me a feel of progression, without them I wouldn't play this game so much.

I love to play Portugal but the game gets quite dull with the same countries being lucky. I wanted to play a republic so I started with Milan and I wanted to unite Italy but I couldn't be Italy because that decision changes the government to Monarchy, tried to get a dictatorship with an high republic tradition (like 30) but after many years it never came, after wasting to much time I simply enacted the decision and quit the game. With SAM I could simply mod that decision and play without that restriction.

I don't like cheating and I have will power to not save scum (because that's cheating) and I have a slow computer (Ironman is very laggy). Still I like to play Ironman for the achievement "recognition", but I also feel that Ironman is restringing my games. However I'm a little afraid of what Valve and Paradox can do to SAM users even if EU4 is not a VAC game.

So in your opinion should I play normal games and use SAM or keep playing Ironman?
Can you think in more pros and cons to add to the list?
And what are your thoughts about using SAM?

 

[neondt]

IRONMAN:
+The community generally regards it as a proof that you didn't cheat.

SAM:
-It's not easy to prove that you got an achievement fairly. (You can upload your gameplay to youtube but that requires a good pc and internet)
-You can be called a cheater if someone finds out that you use SAM.

Why do you care whether random internet strangers think you cheated at a videogame?

 

[AurochsAway]

The point of an achievement surely is to play within the expected parameters to obtain it. Ironman is an expected parameter, but it's easy enough to model it in non-ironman. Ironman is normal or hard mode with historical lucky nations, no using old saves (theoretically of course), and no console commands. Deviate from those and you deviate from the expected achievement requirements. Your examples of random lucky nations and modded Italy for example, would breach the expected conventions of ironman. Non-visual mods would breach the requirements even more. Considering you could easily use SAM anyway, you can do whatever you want, but my suggestion for you if your computer has trouble running ironman is to maintain the expected parameters of an ironman game if you want to feel a personal sense of legitimacey.

As for those who demand ironman as proof, ignore them. Ironm

 

[FRodrigues]

Why do you care whether random internet strangers think you cheated at a videogame?

Because this is also a multiplayer game... If I wanted to play a game and had a reputation of cheating that wouldn't be so likable.
And random internet strangers are also persons that can have good opinions that can change mine and for me that is a plus.

 

[Slaikkiz]

Iron Man sucks. So do achievements. Both are boring and frustrating.

You can also use "SAM" to remove your achievements.
But watch out, if you do that someone might think you're a cheater

 

[Freudia]

Because this is also a multiplayer game... If I wanted to play a game and had a reputation of cheating that wouldn't be so likable.
And random internet strangers are also persons that can have good opinions that can change mine and for me that is a plus.

It's not really like you can cheat in multiplayer. Who cares if you cheat in singleplayer?

 

[neondt]

It's not really like you can cheat in multiplayer. Who cares if you cheat in singleplayer?

Well you see, when you apply to join an EUIV multiplayer game, the GM will perform a serious of rigorous backgrounds checks that include your total logged hours in EUIV, your history of possibly faking achievements, your credit rating, and your criminal record. If you're found to have committed the heinous crime of posting in the "Post your EUIV Empire" thread without providing adequate proof of ironman status, not only will your application to join the mp game be rejected but the GM will most likely contact your educational establishment and/or place of employment to warn them about your misdeeds. You'll then almost definitely be expelled/fired.

So if a seedy-looking fellow in a trenchcoat approaches you in a back alley and offers you a taste of SAM, just say "NO!", kids.

 

[neondt]

edit: double post. seems to be happening a lot to people lately

 

[FRodrigues]

Well you see, when you apply to join an EUIV multiplayer game, the GM will perform a serious of rigorous backgrounds checks that include your total logged hours in EUIV, your history of possibly faking achievements, your credit rating, and your criminal record. If you're found to have committed the heinous crime of posting in the "Post your EUIV Empire" thread without providing adequate proof of ironman status, not only will your application to join the mp game be rejected but the GM will most likely contact your educational establishment and/or place of employment to warn them about your misdeeds. You'll then almost definitely be expelled/fired.

So if a seedy-looking fellow in a trenchcoat approaches you in a back alley and offers you a taste of SAM, just say "NO!", kids.

Yeah you right but can't Valve or Paradox take action against using SAM?

 

[AurochsAway]

Yeah you right but can't Valve or Paradox take action against using SAM?

Valve can, and does in games where achievements make a difference. EUIV's achievements are just wall decorations though.

 

[Laexio]

Valve can, and does in games where achievements make a difference. EUIV's achievements are just wall decorations though.

Which games do achievements make a difference in?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

+It's harder to cheat because you need to use a 3rd party software.

No, you certainly can't just console stuff but you can violate the gameplay rules in a strict sense especially on some patches so this isn't really accurate.

The monthly autosaves are the worst aspect of it, completely unnecessary. If people are going to end task to scum yearly saves they're going to do it on monthly too. The utility variance between the two isn't so large that it's worth forcing 2+ hours of extra save time on everyone :/.

 

[FRodrigues]

Which games do achievements make a difference in?

In earlier steam sales and in Team Fortress 2 Valve gave stuff if you got achievements I think, but it stop, maybe because of SAM.