SailAAR, FlyAAR and PanzAAR- A German DiDay RP Campagne.

[Surt]

I've check some older save games and the supplies started building up in early December and gradually increased.

 

[unmerged(47028)]

Think its full Exploit, which gives 25 partisan value, that contribute to the problem in the east together with supply as on very hard and winter.

Change it to collaboration and you will see supplies flowing.

Which doesn't explain why there are 50K supplies laying about in western Germany not doing anything!

I am not sure about those 50k, but I have noticed that France is also grey - no supplies. This is because it is annexed and high partisan activity.

The problem is that you constantly produce supplies which flow to East Front but can not reach units due to partisan activity and low troughput. If you will stop producing supplies, those 50k would be sent to East front but would disappear too.

 

[loki100]

I've check some older save games and the supplies started building up in early December and gradually increased.

congrats on getting the 300th post

so that could be the answer, you're making supplies, can't shift them to where they are needed so they are busily covering several small provinces in Central Germany.

I'd pull back a number of formations and really have a go at your partisan problem, in the short term thats the only variable you can really control.

semi-emu'd ... drats

 

[unmerged(47028)]

I've check some older save games and the supplies started building up in early December and gradually increased.

This is because you can send only certain amount out of Berlin. Let's say 1000, but if you produce 1050 then each day you would add 50 to your stockpile. Your problem is that 1000 is eaten by partisans

 

[Surt]

I wonder if it actually can't go anywhere its needed?

With winter, hard and lots of partisans I wonder if the effective throughput of your provinces somewhere on the old Soviet-Polish border is near 0, so the supply logic may send them off that way, they reach a bottleneck and get drawn back?

If thats the case, then once the bad weather malus is lifted and you get your partisan problem under control it should start to move east, even if it'll take a while to reach your troops.

VH is -25% throughput, partisans max another 25% but are under control in the main areas, winter gives xxx.

The supplies I talk about are west of Berlin, if supply from the had been taken back it would have gone to Berlin as the supply source?


I.C.E. specific: Fortunately I accepted the winter_cloth option or I would have gotten russian_winter modifier for 130 days from september, in which case nothing would have moved. Instead I got 130 days of winter_clothes june-september.
I don't remember being offered the russian infra build event in so the 2 last options might not have happened first is the refuse last the build cost.

	russian_winter = {
		supply_throughput = -0.25 
		combat_movement_speed = -0.25
		land_organisation = -0.25
	}

	winter_clothes = {
		supply_throughput = -0.10
		land_organisation = -0.05
		combat_movement_speed = -0.10
	}

	russian_infra = {
		supply_throughput = -0.10
		combat_movement_speed = -0.25
	}

	russian_infra_build = {
		combat_movement_speed = -0.25
		global_supplies = -0.15
	}

With all the negative modifiers we would be at -85% before winter, I think I'm at -25 before winter.

 

[Surt]

This is because you can send only certain amount out of Berlin. Let's say 1000, but if you produce 1050 then each day you would add 50 to your stockpile. Your problem is that 1000 is eaten by partisans

I think we are talking about 2 different things, you talk about the east, while I talk about the west.

I'm fully aware that the east is awful, as it should be

But I'm not happy that west of Berlin there is increasing heaps of supply that go nowhere, look at the picture of Magdeburg and the other in the next picture, they are all west of Berlin and are all green.

 

[unmerged(47028)]

The supplies I talk about are west of Berlin, if supply from the had been taken back it would have gone to Berlin as the supply source?

Probably French supplies taken from Paris still travel around

As I wrote: try collaborate in Poland and the USSR and you will see a big difference.

 

[Surt]

Sadly I have to go to Bed now instead of continuing this discussion :/

Last day at work tomorrow before vacation and away from gaming computer so no new reports the next week+

I'll log in to discuss some more!!!

 

[Baltasar]

Everyone (including me) complains about supply but not many people produce the screen shots to prove the way it is not WAD. Use the screen shots of your excessive western supply holdings and insufficient eastern supply to raise a support request to resolve a game bug.

If that many people are complaining about the exact same issue, it should be Paradox disproving the problem exists. As it is, the whole idea behind the supplies coming out of the same province is bullocks already. Personally, I stored my copy in the shelv already, because it's yet again a disappointment in many terms. Semper Fi makes it better in some cases, but much worse in others (eg fleet sizes).

 

[Surt]

If that many people are complaining about the exact same issue, it should be Paradox disproving the problem exists. As it is, the whole idea behind the supplies coming out of the same province is bullocks already. Personally, I stored my copy in the shelv already, because it's yet again a disappointment in many terms. Semper Fi makes it better in some cases, but much worse in others (eg fleet sizes).

Paradox would not be able to prove that the problem didn't exist, even if it didn't exist, that is due to the complexities of the programs.
Testing will also only get you so far.

The same is true the other way around, we don't know the design specifications so can't say for sure is it a bug or not as we are missing some information.

Now we can set up a situation where it is likely we found a bug, and if it falls out of the design spec then it might be one and then PI should investigate.

 

[Baltasar]

The supply system is either a bug or a very bad concept. Either way, it's faulty. Announcing the an arcarde mode is just a slap in the face of those who actually want a realistic supply system.

Testing could be rather easy. Take the 1944 scenario, put all German units to 100% strength and see what happens the next months. Take the same scenario but this time with twice the ammount of units around only in the west and see what happens. Repeat for twice the number of units in the east, in the south and twice the numbers overall. Take the results and re run the tests with 100% infra in all provinces.

I've shortened the upgrade time of infra to 60 days and upgraded every damn province in Russia as soon as it was in German hands. I still ran into lots of supply problems when I only had one division in each border province. Weather did play it's role, partisans did too, but even without both, the supply throughput was still inadequate to supply that kind of setup.

 

[loki100]

The supply system is either a bug or a very bad concept. Either way, it's faulty. Announcing the an arcarde mode is just a slap in the face of those who actually want a realistic supply system.

This is Surt's AAR and whilst its always interesting to discuss game play issues arising out of the reports, its not really a great place to do another 'HOI3 is utterly broken' debate.

My instinct is what we're seeing here is odd but reasonable. Its clear that the supplies just cannot get to the east front due to weather, partisan levels and the difficulty chosen. There seem to be two aspects to this - weather+hard is having the effective of closing down the throughput of certain provinces and then the partisans are scoffing down most of what little can be pushed through those provinces.

So 2 things are happening - Surt is producing enough supplies in theory for his troops, some (not enough in any case) does wander off east through the bottlenecks & is being consumed (by the partisans), most cannot go east due to the bottlenecks.

Now the only 'bug', if it is one, is that this stuff that is produced but can't go beyond the bottlenecks is hanging around to the west not the east of Berlin.

But overall, the effect of the supply design seems to be working pretty reasonably. The best test would be to go through the save game file and create a couple of 10 infra corridors to the front lines and see if that then leads to a reduction in the supply stocks as more is able to go eastwards ... even if it all it does is then lead to even better fed Soviet partisans

 

[shepherd352]

I appreciate the supply discussion (which has a clear context: the situation in this game) but I am keen to see how Surt progresses through the Spring and into the Summer of 1942. A pity we need to wait a week but everyone deserves time off.

 

[Surt]

I appreciate the supply discussion (which has a clear context: the situation in this game) but I am keen to see how Surt progresses through the Spring and into the Summer of 1942. A pity we need to wait a week but everyone deserves time off.

You have to be patient a bit more as I'm enjoying my vacation here and its nearly too hot to think

 

[loki100]

glad you're enjoying your hols ... (sigh, its rained solid for the last week here), can I quickly and briefly do a hijack ...

please, please wander over the aarland awards (link in my signature) & vote for HOI3 aars ... we're currently being outvoted by the benighted people who play the utterly moribund HOI2 ... and we don't want that, do we?

 

[Surt]

SailAAR, FlyAAR and PanzAAR
Spring time for X-AAR

[size=+1]General WintAAR, the end of his Reign[/size]


A fearsome opponent

Is this the Soviets best man?


Ley reorganized supplies

Some of the damaged border provinces are still not repaired from the start of the campaign


Symbolic action

This should persuade China to join us now that we got a common enemy


Vicious lies

Soviet propaganda.​

The 2nd Führer denies any wrongdoing, he only set himself up as major stockholder of the Herman Göring Werke to help the German people.
Ley also thinks this is wrong, the 50000 tons of supplies he has put away for personal use in western Germany must be worth more than that.
Goebbels immediately answers with a ingenious work in his photo shop.

Wanted

A real mobster.​

That will teach them to spread lies.

The last encounter?

These must be the last units of the Soviet fleet as the Axis at one time occupied all Soviet European ports​

If not they have sailed from the far east just to meet a watery grave.

Soviet tries to block

The access to the Baltic sea with sunken blockage subs.​

They shall not succeed.

Week 40, 9th month

OKW discusses the future areas of responsibility​

Each Heeresgruppe will be assigned on of the primary supply paths shown on the map

HG Karelia - hold current position and if possible take Arkhangelsk, if successful take over more of HG Nord's northern front, don't advance into the northern tundra. Supply from the Demjansk railhead.

HG Nord - in cooperation with HG Mitte take Moscow. Supplied by the Smolensk railhead.
HG Mitte - in cooperation with HG Nord take Moscow. Supplied by the unfinished Orel railhead.
Some Generals talk about making a super-Kessel around Brjansk by striking from the north through Kirov and south through Orel of the giant front protrusion the Soviets have made during the winter. This would be a great success but if it can be done, but extremely difficult to coordinate.
Many generals thinks the Soviets now holding the majority of the eastern bank of the Dnieper will be difficult to dislodge making the broad front attack very costly to cross, but also that the super-Kessel is pure fantasy.
A compromise to a broad front advance, the super-Kessel strategies and the worry about the river crossing is the most likely plan right now, the 2 initial attacks will start from the 2 bridgeheads that exists in the north and south as in the super-Kessel plan, if it succeed in break through that plan will be followed. Else the Bridgeheads will be used as basis for attacking along the river without the need to cross, hopefully this will create a smaller but still substantial Kessel of the middle Dnieper bend.

HG Sud - advance to Rostov in cooperation with HG Caucasus, then guard the northern flank of HG Caucasus by advancing into the Don bend and if possible toward Astrakhan. Supplied from the Kharkov railhead, share the Dnipropetrovsk railhead with HG Caucasus.
HG Caucasus - Advance over the Kerch crossing and help AG Sud in taking Rostov. Then cut off the Caucasus and capture the oil fields, at this time the HG will be spread so thin it will not be able to participate in combats further north due to guard duties, all mobile units will be detached in exchange for some garrisons and police.

Can women work?

Spear proposes that we enlist some women in the workforce to free up more men for the front duty​

Many Nazi leaders protest as well as many paternal generals as all know a women place is at home. Spear argues that all women with no small children could work while this crises persist, many unmarried women work anyway. The 2nd Führer delays the decision as he is not convinced its so big a crisis.

Wustensturm delayed

Also the operations against the Saudis are delayed due to supply troubles.​

Operation Bacon is postponed at least a month till May.

The thaw

Soon the land will dry and we can move again.​

(A shame this doesn't really happen with help of the weather system)
Our troops are exhausted after a 700 km retreat from Volgadorf and 250 km from Moscow, our fuel and supplies are none existent, the moral is at an all time low, Finland has been removed as an effective fighting member, its armed forces nearly totally wiped out. (historical losses during winter)

Greatest extend

The approximate greatest extend on all fronts.​

Some uncertainty in the middle and the 4 Heeresgruppen also reached their maximum advance at different times.


It is uncertain if all units will be in supply again, but OKW hopes it improves during April as until now only 385 tons of supplies has left Berlin in the direction of the east front each day, the rest has mysteriously disappeared.
(short update)

 

[loki100]

ummh, do wonder if you'd be better to concentrate on one sector and really grab what you need there, if the Soviets have really strengthened over the winter then you may lack the power for such a broad front assault?

 

[Surt]

ummh, do wonder if you'd be better to concentrate on one sector and really grab what you need there, if the Soviets have really strengthened over the winter then you may lack the power for such a broad front assault?

The Soviets have 175-197 division, depending on who you ask, so yes they have strengthened and the axis has bleed far more in last half year.

But the main problem is that the supply glut in the west continues to grow now over 60K supplies between Berlin and the French border. These supplies would do wonder on the east front now, I would even settle for them not growing, but the east simply can't do it with 600 supplies being shipped that way out of 1600 produced.

 

[Enewald]

wait until the summer comes...

 

[nightraid3r]

what is the current date in your campaign