jrk264

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I don't get it. A penalty of 100% on the base 100% means only nations with 200% tech cost are primitives? :confused:

If they nerf Ryukyu by not being able to create ships, it would be the end of the three mountaisn achievement...
It gets harder to sail to Europe when you can't get fleet basing rights from "primitive" tribes. Going west is now impossible.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Sorry, I was thinking of America as west. Stupid Euro-centrism.

Can't go east any more, I should have said.

To Ryukyu, America is closer when sailing East than West :D. If you sail west in a straight line, you're hit QUITE A few things before America ^_^.

The only thing the ship nerf does is limit one of the previously viable strategies available to player-controlled Mesoamericans to defend themselves from European invasion immediately. It will not materially affect Ryukyu.
 

atwix

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Only new world nations will have poor enough tech to be considered "primitives"

hmm, so it might affect getting fleet base rights for exploring as Ryukyu. But you can still seize colonies from portugal in south america by getting fleet access from benin.

But to make a voyage around the world as i did, will become lot harder. No more free fleet access from all animist coastal tribes, since tribes with too low tech can't make ships.

And funny enough, nations who can't build ships can't give fleet access. Now WHERE is the logic in that.

In reality the foreign sailors would ask permission from local tribe leader to repair their ship on some beach, and barter for supplies.
 

atwix

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Again, Africans are not "primitives"

thats quite weird if you look at it from historical perspective. Since historically, after a load of time of colonizing in America, the catholic church declared that "indians" in america have souls and can be converted to catholicism, hence they couldn't be used as slaves anymore. What did they use then? Primitives from africa. The catholic church considered them to be soulless animals. The catholic church even suggested this new triangle slave trade to the colonizing nations.
 

TheMeInTeam

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thats quite weird if you look at it from historical perspective. Since historically, after a load of time of colonizing in America, the catholic church declared that "indians" in america have souls and can be converted to catholicism, hence they couldn't be used as slaves anymore. What did they use then? Primitives from africa. The catholic church considered them to be soulless animals. The catholic church even suggested this new triangle slave trade to the colonizing nations.

The Catholic church is not the best source of evaluating actual tech progress in its timeframe lol. We're taking access to knowledge and means to build ships, who was targeting for crimes against humanity isn't a significant factor in who might build boats :D.
 

atwix

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Do you just use to mechanic that doesn't let you build troops when there is an enemy on the province, or do you mean something like the AI actually cancel building the troop when you do that?

i want to explain this trick little further, as its probably something most players don't consider.

Looting 1k stacks are not only useful for looting and halting troop production. They are also useful to create openings for a stackwipe after an army got routed.

If you are fighting French main army and win, they usually flee to the other side of the country, and can have regained all their manpower and morale before you can reach them again. This is what disheartens many folk, when trying to beat France. France always comes back in full, when you are still licking your wounds.

Well, looting stacks are useful to avoid this. When a big battle occurs, move ALL your looting stacks to a province that has many provinces around it. Make sure to include all the border provinces in the provinces around your looting stacks. Result? The provinces won't be considered 'safe' to retreat to and the fleeing army might only flee a few provinces away. If you are lucky, you can get stackwipe in the same month this way. Note that this doesn't always work, as it is hard to 'block' all possible retreating provinces. But it helps.

I'll add it in the chapter :)
 
Last edited:

atwix

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Unintended side effects?
Let's see, playing as Poland / Commonwealth in an Ironman game in the year 1662 I had: The Empire disbanded, because all european nations now have the government form: "nogovernment"
All of my damn vassals are now magically independent (and no, none of them are even close to me in size as I clock in at over a hundred provinces). Thanks for that, Paradox.
Everyone that's Western now has a tech level of 0 to my 21 (which everyone else was at).
Most European nations now have the religion: "noreligion"

Actually pretty much the entire save is destroyed. Great. Another ruined Ironman game.

seems paradox took the decision whether or not to upgrade to 1.10 out of my hands.

Older saves aren't compatible with 1.10.

I'm not going to take the risk.
 

misterbean

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seems paradox took the decision whether or not to upgrade to 1.10 out of my hands.

Older saves aren't compatible with 1.10.

I'm not going to take the risk.

Is this an Ironman game? Because my AAR is not and my current save is perfectly fine.

edited to add: if you want to keep it on 1.9.2, then you can simply use the advice about changing the beta to 1.9.2. I tested it and it works.
 

ragnarokk

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I can confirm - returning to Beta worked for me too, and it says the Ironman is on. But you should be caution to always run in 1.9.2 mode :)
 

atwix

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Is this an Ironman game? Because my AAR is not and my current save is perfectly fine.

edited to add: if you want to keep it on 1.9.2, then you can simply use the advice about changing the beta to 1.9.2. I tested it and it works.

Yeah its ironman. I started the run on 1.9 using 1.9 tactics and tbh I think upgrading to 1.10 will just ruin it.

1.10 likely needs other strategy for Ryukyu, but I don't feel like restarting...

Guess I'll continue the AAR in 1.9; what you folks think?
 

misterbean

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Autokrator48

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Although you already did a lot of nice work on that game, you ought to think about restarting the game, since you're not that far in either ; if you don't restart now, it will only get harder to do so later on... However, saying that, the PUs mechanic might also have changed...
 

atwix

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Although you already did a lot of nice work on that game, you ought to think about restarting the game, since you're not that far in either ; if you don't restart now, it will only get harder to do so later on... However, saying that, the PUs mechanic might also have changed...

I think i'll stay with this save. 1.10 seems buggy still. And the things I pulled off might be impossible in 1.10.

I don't quite like the idea of throwing away a save i spent so many hours in already.

In other news, I'll likely post a new chapter today or tomorrow.
 

atwix

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Chapter 6: For the horde!!!!

for_the_horde.jpg


This chapter is dedicated to the green horde of Crimea. For the horde!!!! :D

2015_02_24_00030.jpg


Crimea has been beat up by several nations, ever since we annulled their alliance with the Ottomans. They got reduced to a fraction of the size they once were…

Time to subjugate the horde :mad:

I declared conquest war on them, with a claim I was able to fabricate from the port province I took from Circassia in the first Ottoman war. I told you that province would come in handy :)



The alliance (partner) does a very good job at invading the horde… I didn’t even have the time yet to send my own troops to help out. The alliance triumphs :p

The horde got vassalised without a sweat. Note that the horde didn’t reform yet, so umm.. The horde is still a horde ;)




I made an alliance with Venice, since Venice is a rival of the Ottomans. When I declare on Ottomans, Venice will join in. But I won’t declare on the Ottomans yet. First Byzantium has to complete integrating.

I want to declare on Ottomans with holy war cb, and not with reconquest. This would enable me to make 0 diplo cost separate peace deals with the allies of the Ottomans :cool:



Crimea has cores all over the place. First easy victim to feed to the horde, was Circassia. Other nations were attacking them aswell, so this should be easy :rolleyes:



Meanwhile I started a front in Asia again. I declared on Shun and Miao in former Ming territory. It dragged a few other nations in. Shun was weakened by an attack from other nations. Got to be opportunistic, as always :D

It’s a holy war versus Shun, since I own an uncored province near them. Miao was a pagan nation, so I could use exploration cb versus them.



I forgot to make screenshots of some separate peace deals in Asia. Bottom line is: Shun got reduced to OPM and its provinces got divided between Pegu and Lan Xang. Lan Xang has a few uncorable provinces now, but we’ll resolve that soon enough!

I kinda forgot I couldn’t transfer occupation to Crimea since I used holy war cb :oops:

I thought Crimea had a core in Circassia, but I forgot I took that core myself. Stupid mistake. Should have used a conquest war, then I could have transferred occupation to Crimea. Silly me. Now I got to core all of this stuff myself… The horde wasn’t happy either :(

IMPORTANT TIP: If you fabricate a claim on a nation, or if you declare reconquest war on a nation, you can ALWAYS transfer the wargoal province to any nation that participates in the war, after occupying it.

First of all, it allows you to circumnavigate the changes to transfer occupation. And also, it allows you to feed subjects stuff on other continents with reduced coring cost for them doing so.

How to? Declare conquest/reconquest war on a nation FOR A PORT PROVINCE. Occupy the war target. You can now transfer occupation of that port province to any subject you got.
Once that is done, you can transfer all you occupied to that subject.

Result? Lets assume you fabricated claim on Tunis in north Africa. You can then transfer Tunis province to your vassal Byzantium, and after that the entire nation you wage war on. Make a peace deal that feeds entire nation (all except capital) to Byzantium.

Benefit? Byzantium will now core that land in North Africa, and your subject will pay the double coring cost for all berber land in North Africa. BUT, Byzantium also gets reduced coring cost for that NA land, since its overseas land in other continent.

In the end you can feed Byzantium entire Africa should you desire. This as an example on how to use this mechanic. Its WAD, btw. And you will likely have to help them killing rebels there. But its worth it to save monarch points! Let someone else pay the double coring cost, and then integrate them.

Late game, you can feed colonizer subjects stuff on mainland Asia this way, and feed India or whatnot to them, using this tactic.

Note that the nation you feed overseas provinces to, should have full religious ideas (Portugal or so) and it MUST have a colony in coring range of the province you feed them.



Byzantium integrated. That gave me the holy war CB versus Ottomans.



I almost forgot I could call for a crusade on the Ottomans, since I’m papal controller (for now). So… Crusade!



And what a crusade… Venice, England and Austria joined in for crusade. Persia, Astrakhan, Golden horde and Savoy tried to stop them. Note that Savoy got called in since Ottomans were in coalition, and Savoy aswell.

We outnumber the infidels! Lets march! :D



MMM that’s some nice bonuses. In his religious zeal, Franz Von Habsburg slaughtered the Savoyard army. Err Austria, the infidels are *that* -----> way :confused:

But thanks for occupying them with small stacks nevertheless.



Time to abuse the coalition mechanic a little bit in Asia :oops:

Huai and Wu joined coalition versus Yue. I joined the coalition aswell, and immediately declared crusade on Yue. Huai and Wu now HELP me versus Yue.. and ALL THEIR ALLIES. The plan was to use Wu as meat shield versus Yue, and to occupy all the allies of Yue asap, to be able to do 0 dip separate peaces with them.

IMPORTANT TIP: If you declare war versus a nation after joining a coalition versus them, you can NOT ask their provinces in the peace deal. But you CAN make separate peaces with their ALLIES, and ask their provinces! Note that I am talking about waging a normal war like conquest/reconquest/holy war/expansion cb versus a nation you joined coalition against.



I’m fighting on two continents again, two BIG wars. Micromanaging hell, as always o_O

Doing same old, I let Austrian armies attach to 1k merc stacks, and slaughter Ottomans with ‘m.
I really hope Venice and Austria will sink the Ottoman fleet there. Please AI? Do a joint naval battle? :rolleyes:



This came as a total surprise to me o_O

It seems the ruler in Milan died heirless. I never even noticed the nation was heirless (I was kinda busy).

What happened here? Well, Austria had RM with Milan. Since I am the biggest dynasty partner of Austria, I actually qualify to contest that succession as aggressive claimant, in a succession war.

Yeah riiiiight, as if I’m going to attack Austria :confused:

Its kinda funny. If my nation wasn’t of Habsburg dynasty, then Austria would have gotten a dynasty spread in Milan. But since I am, it became possible succession war. I backed down, and Austria got Milan as a free minor PU subject. If you want to know more on personal union mechanics, study my guide in my signature. But beware, this PU mechanic is very, very complex. And the guide aswell.



Venice tries to sink Ottomans.. Alone. Oh well. Ai will never learn :rolleyes:

Blubblub Venice, BUT the ottoman fleet went to dock for repairs. The Bosporus was free to be crossed. Which I did… Got to use the momentum :D




The Austrian fleet and leftover Venice fleet block the Bosporus now. With the 1k stacks with Austrian army attached I killed stray heathen stacks. 2k merc stacks sieged stuff here and there, protected from danger. I slowly advanced.



I now take the fight more and more towards Persian land.



Meanwhile, my coalition war plan is working. I use my vassal armies and Wu as meat shield versus the big armies, and I’m sieging (or will siege rather) Chu, Tang and Qi with minimum forces.



That plan worked well in the end. Yue sieged up Champa (be my guest :rolleyes:) while I sieged and wiped all their allies.



Chu is fully sieged up, and I fed a great deal of them to Lan Xang. Next up is Tang and Qi.



Lan Xang got fed a bit more, and now they have land connection to the provinces they couldn’t core that were part of Shun before.. Yes, I did plan that ahead :cool:

I will try to core those coastal provinces. I say ‘try’ cause I kinda made an error there. The capital of Tang was in the way to feed Lan Xang a corridor to those provinces. Oh well. We’ll see what to do about that. Taking those provinces gave me holy war versus a load more nations.



Only one small problem. Lan Xang got overfed. I did my math wrong :oops:

Feeding a vassal over 100% overextension is baaaaad idea. I got rebels all over Lan Xang, after my vassal went into “internal conflicts” status.

I also got rebels in the coastal provinces I was trying to core. In a desperate move, I attacked Wu. This gave me a corridor through their allies to attack all rebels. The remains of Chu got called in, Along with the OPM Shu. In the end, I managed to kill all rebels, and I fed 10 base tax Shu to Pegu, and the 10 base tax capital of Chu to Lan Xang, who was now at 4.80 overextension after all this fuss. But it costed me all my forces and manpower in Asia. I cut my losses and gave Wu the coastal provinces. Oh well. At least my vassals gained a total of 20 base tax worth of provinces, and the rebels got dealt with.

Don’t ever overfeed vassals. Lesson learned :oops:

See a tip a bit below on how to semi-reliably feed vassals.



Back to the Otttoman war. I’m already getting call for peace modifier, but I could care less. I wanted to feed the horde! Exhaustion be ******, this will be worth it :mad:

So, I moved all my forces to Astrakhan/Golden Horde while Venice and Austria kept Ottomans and Persia busy.. Astrakhan fell first. I fed all but one province to Crimea. Some were cores they had, some provinces Crimea will have to core themselves.

Edit:

Uhm, you said u wanted to attack ottos with holy war so u can get 0dip provinces from their allies. however that only works if u negotiate with the ottomans. u just paid 200 dip for 4 provinces u gave to crimea. Btw, if u have a coalition against u, u can use the holy war cb and then take provinces from everybody with 0 dip. especially in 1.9 that is extremely useful when u attack a OPM (instant 100%) and then just siege the provinces u want, super easy to take 100% warscore in just 2 years.

Not true. It might say otherwise in the tooltip/peace deal window, but seperate peaces in a holy war will also cost 0 dip for provinces. AFAIK, seperate peaces have the same diplo costs for justified /unjustified demands for the CB you started the war with. Never really cross checked that for all CB though. The tooltip/peace window just lies. This tooltip bug has been around for many many patches. Diplo costs for vassal feeding are also displayed wrongly usually in tooltip/peace deal.
 
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atwix

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After a few years, Spain attacked Tuscany. Austria called me in.

I made peace with Persia, and immediately Venice and Austria do a white peace with Ottomans, since the Ottomans are almost fully sieged up. Austria and Venice think Spain deserves a beating. Be my guest. I’ll continue this war and began sieging Golden Horde :)

While doing that, I had this popup. Sweden did a bold full annexation of Denmark. I had been eyeing Sweden as potential ally, and they just proved why. Sweden OP :eek:



War exhaustion sky high by now… But I didn’t care. I had a hungry horde begging to be fed :p



Crimea now had 4.80 overextension modifier in their unrest window…

IMPORTANT TIP: The unrest icon of a nation can learn you many things. If they got war exhaustion, and how high their overextension is. 5.00 overextension modifier equals 100% overextension for THAT nation. Note that administrative efficiency difference between you and a subject can mess this math up!!

BUT: you can reliably calculate how much you can feed a subject using this unrest icon. The idea is to prepare a peace deal that gives your nation 9X% overextension. After that, transfer all the provinces in the peace deal to your subject. The subject will then get the 9X% overextension (returning cores excluded). This way you reliably feed a vassal up to the point they are close to the magic 100% overextension (aka 5.00 modifier in the unrest tooltip). If you overfeed them (above 5.00) they will get nationalism and bigger rebel stacks, just as your nation would, if you go over 100% overextension.
As you can see, I fed Crimea up to 4.80 overextension, equalling 96% overextension. Perfect.

HORDE FED! HORDE HAPPY! :D

But Crimea now got one rebel stack after the other. But since Crimea is a low military tech nation, their rebel stacks are VERY easy to kill. My 17k troops killed all of the stacks easily, due to the difference in military tactics between me and Crimea. I already explained the importance of military tactics in a previous chapter. The idea here is to keep Crimea VERY low military tech, and to feed ‘m a lot. Any rebels that pop will be easily dispersed. This is one of the reasons why unreformed hordes are ideal feeding vassals.



Tuscany needs to peace out with Spain, or I cannot take much of the Ottomans. I had this peace deal prepped until they did.



After a few months, Tuscany made a quick end to the Spanish war by asking for a Spanish province on Italian mainland.

I quickly did peace deal with Ottomans, as shown above. I released Bulgaria asa vassal right after.

I qualified for an alliance with Sweden now. So I did.

Err, ok. Now what :confused:



I took a little breather, considering my options. I ditched Venice as an ally. They served their purpose.

Muscovy invaded Lithuania, and I took the momentum to attack them aswell. Austria killed some rebels around my capital, and then was still willing to join the war versus Lithuania. Austria had -60 modifier to join the war because they liked Lithuania, but my trust with them made me able to convince them to join the war nevertheless. I just had +4 total modifier for them to join the war, so that was close. Better make good use of it.

Poland, Transylvania, Riga and the Hansa joined with Lithuania against us.

Lithuania and Poland got weakened by a massive Polish noble rebellion due to the event chain. Poland will always get these rebels early 17th century.

Lithuania likely tried a few times to kill a noble stack, and got weakened enough to incite Muscovy into an attack. So, I jumped on the wagon. Lithuania stupidly only sieged Crimean land, until I led a 1k mercenary stack with Austrian forces attached towards that siege. Lithuania got routed, and turned onto Muscovy and Austria later on. I happily sieged stuff in south Poland and Lithuania.



Austria is slowly but steadily turning into a steamrolling monster nation :eek:

I just had to siege stuff up, Austria took care of all the rest. Scary o_O

Note that the hansa is stupid enough to walk into polish noble rebel stacks :rolleyes: The 80k Austrian stack went to that province, and stack wiped the demoralised beaten hansa army.

I think Poland had like 150-200k noble rebels. That’s more then entire army on my side :confused:



Sweden didn’t want in on the war versus Lithuania, because they had an old royal marriage with them, from before Sweden made Lithuania a rival. This gave Sweden a bad malus to join the war at its start, because “Sweden would be destabilised attacking Lithuania”. Yeah, attacking a nation you got RM with destabilizes nations, if they join an offensive war versus them.

But the Lithuanian king died during the war, Sweden didn’t have RM anymore with Lithuania, and NOW they are eager to join. Be my guest :rolleyes:



Poland and Lithuania got beat up. Hard. Hammered between Austria and Muscovy….



What is the difference between this and last screenshot? Take a look.



…….




Austria finished siege on a province that bordered a province I sieged up. This enabled Austria to transfer ALL their occupations to ME. And they did. War allies only keep provinces with their claim/core occupied in their own name IF the war ally has diplomatic ruler. IF Austria would have had militaristic ruler, they wouldn’t transfer all those occupations to me; they would try for separate peace with Poland, taking land for themselves. But now? I got all the occupations. Every-single-one. Because Austria had no claims whatsoever in the nations we waged war on.

This looks promising :)



In other news: France went reformed. I can now do holy war on France.



Kokugaku. This event can trigger for any nation that has Japanese as main culture. It has mtth of 20 years once its past 1600. So I got it relatively early, in 1613. That’s some sweet bonuses :D

Poland and Lithuania got fully occupied, and they BOTH went bankrupt. Poland collapsed into a normal monarchy soon after.



Time for some separate peace deals. Bulgaria got fed up to 4.xx overextension, including a province from Transylvania. Crimea got its Yedisan port back, along with another former Crimean core inland.



I fed Austria a province of the Hansa. Because why not. Its prudent to reward my buddy too, and they didn’t want anything in Poland.



This is what I started the war for in the first place. To feed Crimea all its old cores back.

I fed almost all of their old cores back, along with a few provinces to link all the land up, and took one province for myself. Result? I can now claim stuff in Poland and Riga, and I’ll soon have cores there. I will also get holy war cb on Muscovy and Lithuania.

Note that I didn’t get power projection. I had to decide earlier what new rival to pick, and I gambled wrong. I took Timurids, but I should have taken Lithuania.. Oh well.

Anyways, Crimea got fed beyond belief. FOR THE HORDE!!!! :D



Finally, an update on how my chances for PU developed in the last decades…

Spain took my dynasty a long while back, before Austria called me in on that war Tuscany-Spain. Spain got weak claim heir almost immediately. A weak heir claim in same dynasty country means you can start a force PU war for as long as that weak heir doesn’t create a strong heir of his own, after he became king… But the problem is Austria always has a truce with Spain.

England also took my dynasty in the end, but they almost immediatly got strong claim heir. BOO :mad:




And you probably won’t believe this, but Austria went heirless during the last war. I had 99 prestige, and Austria aswell. So, I could claim throne of Austria.

BIIIG bet. I am hoping I will get Austria and Milan peacefully as minor Pu subject. But I don’t know if the PU mechanic actually allows it. We’ll see. I just HAD to do it, since getting equal/more prestige then Austria is VERY VERY hard. So I claimed their throne when I had high enough prestige to do so.



This is the result of the last big war. Look at the size of Bulgaria and Crimea! And then look left below. That’s right, I claimed throne of Spain. The idea was to start an immediate war for Spain, but right THEN Austria got involved in a war that also involved Spain. AAAARGH! If only I had peaced out a few months earlier. But I didn’t have the required prestige back then to claim throne of Spain, because I lost prestige after claiming throne of Austria I needed some battles versus the remains of the Lithuanian army. That didn’t quite go according to plan….

Spain has a weak heir, so I got all the time in the world to start the PU war. BUT my monarch needs to stay alive until Austria has no truce with Spain. If my monarch dies, I’ll lose the claim throne chance.

Can you imagine my fury when I saw Austria was already involved in a war versus Spain…

I would have started a force PU war versus Spain right after Lithuanian war, and I would have had a shot at getting Spain AND Portugal as minor PU subject. But Austria didn’t want to co-operate. AARGH!!

I should have claimed throne of Spain first, and then Austria. Then the next chapter would have started with force PU war on Spain.

Oh well.. Not everything works out as I want it to. I shouldn’t have claimed the throne of Austria so eagerly maybe. I could always have claimed them during the Spanish force PU war. Even I can make costly mistakes..

We’ll see what happens in the next decade.

Hope you enjoyed this chapter!
 
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