atwix

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It doesn't. To get the Coalition CB as an option when declaring war, you need 3 members including you and you need to have an aggressive expansion modifier towards the target. If you don't, because you're too far away and/or wrong culture/religion and you nation doesn't give a damn about the target's aggression, you won't get the CB but you still can drag to coalition members into a war using a different (or no) CB. Also, the Coalition CB only becomes available on the 1st of the next month after you join a coalition of at least 2 members.

I learn something everyday about EU4. Thanks for the clarification!
 

atwix

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Chapter 3: Hello Europe!

This chapter will tell about how Ryukyu fared during westernisation. They met their fellow christian nations, and tried their first hesitant diplomatic actions with them.



Scotland actually DECLARED on England. With the help of France. France invaded England and occupied it entirely. Who said AI can't do naval invasions?

This is the result. Somehow i predict Scotland will eat entire England, if the Alliance with France lasts.



Time for another run on the Ming bank. Ryukyu needs to do this, before the difference in military tech between Ryukyu vassals and Ming grows too big. Ryukyu vassals sit at low military tech due to all the harsh treatment they did. This give them really low military tactics value. If ming would get to military tech 7, they'd trash my vassal armies. So... Better to rob them now then later. My ducat pool is going low…

An important downside to my early westernizing strategy off seized colonies is exactly this difference in military tactics you develop during westernisation.

Important tip: Many people don't know this, but military tactics are one of the most influencial factors that decide battles, apart from general quality, terrain and combat rolls. A difference of 0.50 military tactics can completely change a course of a battle. That is why some levels of military tech are so important. If you can get ahead in military tactics, you win.

This makes Ryukyu very vulnerable now, as i am WAY lower in tech and I can't fight with my own armies or they get trashed. But since I moved capital to Arguin, I can do my first shots at diplomacy with european powers.

Maybe they want to offer some protection.... We'll see about that later. First, we rob the bank. We might need gold for some bribes for our fellow christians ;)

I declared conquest war on Ming, I guarded the wargoal with my vassals, and looted Ming with any spare troops. Having 3-5 1k stacks looting Ming can net you a LOAD of money. But it requires micromanaging to avoid them running into some stray army inside Ming..

Tip: Don't loot the "shortest" way towards your territory from their capital when looting. Reinforcement troops will Always be on the move around those provinces.



Japan. Read my FOIX run in signature? If they flip catholic, i can PU them easily, since i will be their only Christian RM partner most likely...




Another screenshot that explains how I win battles versus Ming with micromanaging.

Ming started sieging that Lan Xang province, but with too many units. As you can see, 6k units flee the province to avoid attrition and Ming is STUPID enough to siege that province WITHOUT a general. As you can see, that fleeing stack arrives in Ming 25 june. I then dogpiled the province, and made it so that all my armies arrive in the sieged province on the 26th of June.

You can guess the result. No, the 6k stack didn't STOP moving. So it became a battle of 30k vs 11k. You can guess the result. Ming didn't even dare to send the 6k back, as they knew they made capital mistake there.

Micromanaging can win you battles, people. Hope this clarifies what I mean by opportunistic gameplay. Popups and reading tooltips can learn you many things, and give you the chance to do opportunistic moves in your military and diplomatic gameplay.




As that battle was won before i started it, i checked all my looting units. AAAH sweet ducats!! :p



The entire Ming fleet blockades Champa. I checked that in the ledger. 4x boats Ming has, and the exact same number I see near Champa. Use the ledger folks. It can learn you a lot of stuff of tha nation you do a war with.

I invaded Bejing with 1k and a cog, and Ming fleet didn't move. That unit would loot NE Ming for years. Another would loot the coast from Champa towards Ming capital near Hangzhou, and a third one looted the rich provinces in western Ming inland. Thats 10+ducats a month easily for years on end o_O



Another opportunistic attack on a Ming stack. Ming outnumbers me BADLY overall. I outmanoeuvred them though. The main Ming army was heading for the occupied wargoal, and the shortest road for that was through Lan Xang. I waited until they were in the Chang Mai province, and then launched attack on the army from the king that approached from the NE.. Funny thing is that Ming main army can't reach this battle in time, as its very hard terrain to cross. They would need 40 days to reach Kengtung from Chang Mai, and by then i will have defeated the small Ming stack....

I'll say it again, planning opportunistic battles can make you win versus superior number nations. I did same with the first war vs Ayutthaya and Dai Viet in chapter 1.



I now got 100% religious unity. Yay :cool:

One small problem you might have overlooked: portuguese patriots spawned in America. But i couldn't care less. Portugal can have the sieged colonies back. They went domineering because I had colonies near them.

I want to note that culture converting wouldn't have helped here, due to my war exhaustion. Even IF i had culture converted those provinces (and my capital, for that matter) the portuguese rebels would still gain progress and would still spawn and be hostile, even though portuguese is accepted culture in Ryukyu.

Don't quite know if thats a bug or not. I bet it is. Damn bugged rebels really need to be patched. Oh well, I guess its because its nationalists and not patriots.



Ryukyu sucked up to Castille, and they actually want to marry one of my nobles! I guess Queen Isabella wants a Geisha nanny for her 13 year old Enrique. Or god knows, maybe she wants to meet one in person herself... :eek:



Ming' neighbours decided its a good time to attack Ming aswell. I hope Ming won't invade me again now... I moved my vassal armies towards Ming capital and started some sieges there. Gotta be opportunistic, as always :cool:

Note that i already gained 900 ducats so far in the war o_O



Another example of how dumb the AI can be. They re-sieged capital, and they did an assault. I was still sieging a province only a few provinces away.... I immediatly scrambled and tried reaching Ming capital in time. Whether or not I reached it is irrelevant really, what i'm trying to say is: Ming lowered its morale to less then 0,50 during that siege. You can guess the result :rolleyes:



This war started as Ligor and Malacca versus me. I thought "I can handle that after Ming".

But then something weird happened :confused:

Malacca called in all its allies. HOW! Its an offensive war they joined with Ligor... They shouldn't be able to call in their allies if they join an offensive war... Or can they, because i set Malacca as rival? If that is the case, i made stupid move setting Malacca as rival I guess.

If anyone knows what happened here, i'd be much obliged. Ligor only had Malacca as ally, i double checked that. And it wasn't a coalition war...

This doesn't look good :oops:



The Iberian wedding fired. Maybe Castille sent my geisha to Aragon? ;)

They joined Portugal on a war (before the event) vs Morrocco and Morocco got trashed.



I got to do damage control versus Ligor and this buggy war they started versus me. I still don't get how Malacca called in all their allies when they joined Ligor on an offensive war. I really don't :mad:

I could have looted Ming for a few years more I guess, but Ming was sieging the provinces I occupied and I didn't want to lose manpower in more Ming fights.

I took all the gold Ming had, for a total net gain of about 1700 ducats after the robbery. Not bad. Pegu got a province, and i took one Dali province for myself, to (maybe in future) get holy war (or a claim) versus Ming and Kham.

I released Kham as sovereign state, to make a possible corridor in the future towards Oirat, and god knows, Muscovy. Gotta plan ahead. Maybe I can ally Muscovy and incite them to do a war versus Oirat in the far future. No, I 'm not kidding there :p



Westernizing events UGH. Lost all my military and navy tradition, my legitimacy, monarch points, but luckily I didn't get the event yet that threatens to spawn rebels in Arguin. Its pure random what events you get really. Can't have rebel event placing rebels on my capital... I got trouble enough already in Southeast Asia :mad:

And I'm not even mentioning rebel faction danger there, as you can see in the window right top.

Important tip: Enable the rebel faction progress in that window people! If it reaches 90%, make sure theres an army there to make the rebels attack YOU. They might get terrain -1 to rolls and whatnot, and they will have less morale.

Stupid bugs are getting me. WHY do castilian rebels still threaten to spawn if my capital is Japanese Culture already?! They don’t even have core on Arguin, let alone castillian culture. Oh well, live and learn.



I manoeuvred my way into an all out defensive battle. Hold the line vassals!!!!



Hooold!



HOLD THE FRIGGIN LINE :mad:

..wait what, another general leads the battle now on the enemy side? Yep. He has less manoeuver then the previous leader, and all of a sudden The attacker has a terrain -1 penalty too.

...Did you folks knew that a general change mid fight can change the terrain you fight on? :confused:

I didn't. But I suppose the reasoning behind that is that the new general has less knowledge of how to fight on the disadvantageous terrain then my general now, hence why the attacker got -2 total dice roll penalty now...

I learn new things about EU4 mechanics each day.



HOLD THE..... God, this is tense :eek:



A Lucky shock roll! We got this men! Lets finish them off!



YESSS we got them running! :p



DUMB AI! Baiting them into attacking me when they didn't even recover full morale, and when my entire vassal army is near :rolleyes:
 
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atwix

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I won the day again, but at what a cost? My vassals lost 10k troops combined, and they only half of that. I started realising I couldn't possibly win this :(



I accepted peace. Thats right, i lost my first war in a LONG while. But still I think it was a bugged war. Grmpf. At least i got reconquest CB versus Ligor now.

Note that AI sends peace deals when they start to get "call for peace", IF they are winning. If a nation is losing, they will send peace deals sooner. I ordered xx ships again to deplete my ducat pool, and the result is that i 'only' have to pay 10 ducats in that peace deal. Granted, it costed me a few loans, waiting for the peace deal to pop up. But I fought too hard for that ducat pool to let it be taken away!



Westernisation completed without rebel spawn westernizing event. If I would have gotten it, I would have accepted +120 westernizing cost option. I can't possibly fight rebels in Arguin, even with 4k mercs. I just wouldn't have risked it.

But my legitimacy, monarch points, military tradition etc all got plummeted. Not good. On top of that, castilian rebels are at 90%, and I had to harsh treat them.



The next month, entire Europe and more was revealed to me. Why you might wonder.

What many people probably don't know: spreading of discoveries depends on your RELIGION and on your tech group. Since Ryukyu is catholic and just finished westernizing, it qualifies to get knowledge of all the starting Christian visible terrain, as if you would start as European western nation in 1444. I also get spread of discoveries from provinces that western tech group colonizing nations discovered so far.

Each 50 years after this( or is it 75 years), I would get update of ALL the land the christian explorers and conquistadors have found, including NON western Christian nations like Muscovy and Ethiopia or any animist tribe that flips to Christianity. Ever wondered why at some points in eu4 timeframe you get major revelation of the World map? Here is your answer. The discoveries get spread inside your religion group each 50 years. Correct me if I’m wrong there.



That’s right, Castille accepts an alliance with us. I guess Enrique really liked the Geisha :D



Why, hello Spain! My ally just got a lot stronger :eek:



Time for a very bold move. I attacked France. Yes, I attacked FRANCE :eek:

Pure crazyness you might think.

But 30k of France troops were trapped in Scotland. Spain sank French and Scottish fleet.

The idea was to bleed France, to incite the militaristic Emperor of Austria to attack France aswell. They had claims on France, and they have had the burgundian inheritance. Austria had standing army of 100+k. I would have had shot at taking provence and/or releaseing Guyenne.
But it didn’t work out. RNG god frowned upon me and Austrian emperor died, leaving an heir in regency. And Austria can’t attack while in regency.

AAARGH :mad: Oh well, it was worth a shot.



Speaking of Austria. Have you EVER seen such a weirdly shaped Austria? :confused:

The AI actually made a smart move for once, and made land corridor from Austrian mainland towards the Netherlands, through the HRE itself. I doubt rebels have a chance in the Netherlands now… And Austria might culture convert entire netherland territory into Austrian culture, to stop the Netherlands declaring independence.

Also, Austria got PU over Hungary remember? It was shown in previous chapter. France lost bad there, and Austria got Nemours in that war. They added it to HRE. Also, Austria diplo vassalised Wallachia and Bosnia.

What does Austria look like now? A running dog. Pity they didn’t run to France to bite its head off…

In the end France sieged Spain, and forced me to give up my alliance. France got Pirineo in that war.

Oh well. Not every plan works out. I couldn’t re-ally Spain till 1544, due to the peace deal. But I’ll theorycraft another plan, rest assured ;)



Taungoo broke free due to rebels, that spawned after Pegu was left with a load of war exhaustion thanks to the Ligor war. I just attacked them again; Pegu kept their cores on Taungoo since their culture was accepted in Pegu.



I attacked Manipur before my claim ran out, and a few tiny countries I had interest in joined the fight. We can’t sit on our thumb while we lose bad to France, now can we :p



This is what I got out of all those that joined. Could have gotten lot more, but I need to spare my diplo points here. Note that I took one province there for myself, to base holy war from in future versus Ming, U tsang and Kham.

That’s right, I took religious ideas after exploration. Just the first one, for the holy war CB. Holy war will cost enable me 0 diplo point peace deals for provinces in future. Gotta plan ahead, since I can’t fabricate claims in Asia anymore decently. Besides, who needs claims if you can start holy war.

You might see its 1538 already. I’m taking my time for a few decades here, to increase my tech. Especially military tech needs a boost for the so precious military tactics, or I’d plain lose all wars. Even 20k vassal army almost lost to 7k U tsang army in the last war just because I had lot lower military tactics as Ryukyu…..

That doesn’t mean there aren’t interesting opportunities.

I tried to finish this chapter with something interesting again. Bare with me now, as I had theorycrafted a daring plan ;)



That’s right, both Byzantium and Morea exist. Byzantium is CATHOLIC. Morea has Byzantium provinces but is orthodox.

I got NO clue why Ottomans didn’t go for Byzantium or Morea in the last decades… They have been on map since I sent my explorer there in 147x, and they got claims on each and every province. But I guess they had more important nations to attack…

Anyways, I sucked up to the ottomans, asked them military access, declared on Byzantium when my cog fleet was in Black Sea, and attacked Byzantium capital after I ran over a few Ottoman provinces.

I blockaded the sea Byzantium was in and the 2 Byzantium ships there fled to port. I was able to cross the strait from Ottomans into the capital of Byzantium, which is Chios. A week or two or so after, the trade fleet from Byzantium attacked me, and my cogs had to retreat to Arguin. BUT I reached Chios and killed the army there. I finished the siege on Chios. Problem now was that I only had 34 warscore, because Chios was a 1 base tax province. The other Byzantium island is 3 base tax, but I couldn’t possibly reach it due to the Byzantium fleet.

I should have attacked the other province most likely, but I don’t know if that would have given me more warscore. I bet not.



I attacked Morea aswell. More no cb wars, more war exhaustion, but this should be worth it.



I ferried more (non merc) troops out of Arguin towards Ottomans, and invaded Morea with 6k troops.



That’s Achaea sieged down, time to attack their main army. I stack wiped their army in Achaea after they fled first battle.



I had to wait and wait and wait more until Byzantium had enough war exhaustion to accept vassalisation. I never had to invade their second province. I full annexed Morea. I sold Morea to Byzantium.



Meanwhile, Austria finished integrating Hungary. They added all Hungarian provinces to the HRE in a timespan of a few days. Entire former Hungary is now HRE territory.

Why is this important? I saw in Austria diplomacy window that they were integrating Hungary. Hungary is close to those Morea provinces I took, and close to Spain aswell. So, Achaea would be close to Austria once Austria finished integrating Hungary.



This is the result of my plan. Because i "owned" Morea province, the range malus for an alliance with austria dropped to 0. Range malus for alliances takes any owned province into account, core or not.

So, i now qualified to get alliance with austria and castille. THAT is why attacked Byzantium and Morea.

First reason: i get reconquest cb versus ottomans thanks to vassalising Byzantium. Second reason was to remove the range malus for alliance with Austria.

Result? I sent my two diplomats on same day towards Spain and Austria, and they both accepted my alliance offer. Note that I had to send ‘m on same day, otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to ally them both. If I had allied one, I would have gotten -50 malus for alliance with the other due to “ryukyu has greater power ally already” -50 malus.

Ryukyu allied to Austria and Spain…..

……. Right :eek:

I’m not done yet.



Portugal was friendly to me again after rebels got them their American former colonies back. With max prepped relation, an rm done, I could even surpass the -50 malus to ally them ASWELL.

Note that Austria accepted royal marriage too after I allied them.



Ottomans now hated my GUTS because I owned provinces they had claims on. This made me able to rival Ottomans.

And you know what the good news is?

Austria, Spain and Portugal all have FRANCE as rival.

Austria and Spain are rivals of OTTOMANS.


…… Right :cool:

Can you guess what the next chapter will be about?

Hope you enjoyed reading this chapter!
 
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misterbean

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I am very impressed. I could never succeed at this.
 

bbqftw

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If ming would get to military tech 7, they'd trash Ryukyu if Ryukyu leads the battle
not exactly sure if you're implying what I think you're implying, but tactics, disc, and morale are calculated for all separate units in battle. So you having crap tactics and leading the battle won't mean that suddenly your vassal tactics are garbage.
 

atwix

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not exactly sure if you're implying what I think you're implying, but tactics, disc, and morale are calculated for all separate units in battle. So you having crap tactics and leading the battle won't mean that suddenly your vassal tactics are garbage.

hm. Fair enough then.
 

JQuacker

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Each 50 years after this( or is it 75 years), I would get update of ALL the land the christian explorers and conquistadors have found, including NON western Christian nations like Muscovy and Ethiopia or any animist tribe that flips to Christianity. Ever wondered why at some points in eu4 timeframe you get major revelation of the World map? Here is your answer. The discoveries get spread inside your religion group each 50 years. Correct me if I’m wrong there.

Close; I'm pretty sure it's 50 years after Province/Sea Zone X is discovered, it becomes common knowledge. Might be what you meant, just sounded like you were saying that it's at the beginning of each year or something.

Anyhow, nice progress. I'll let it slide with the Austria/Spain alliances as not being an "exploit" ;-)
 

birincikalite

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Close; I'm pretty sure it's 50 years after Province/Sea Zone X is discovered, it becomes common knowledge. Might be what you meant, just sounded like you were saying that it's at the beginning of each year or something.

Anyhow, nice progress. I'll let it slide with the Austria/Spain alliances as not being an "exploit" ;-)
It was 50 years by default in EU III
 

atwix

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so, anyone know why Malacca called in all their allies after they joined someone elses offensive war? Is it because they are a rival?
 

Orkonkel

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The alliance thing just seems like a bug. Never seen it in any of my games ever.

Thing about rebels is that a province keep its rebel type even after it is no longer valid: you took colony from Castille, and after you did, Castillian patriots have a chance of spawning. Later on, you culture convert, move your capitol, etc, but when your war exhaustion goes high enough, rebel type automatically becomes the last 'active' rebel in the province. If you beat Castillian patriots there, next time it will be Ryukyuian peasants. At least I think this is how it works based on personal observations. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
 

misterbean

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They can only do that if they are co-beligerent. That happens if you check the box, or if they are in a coalition against you. But I think not even coalition members can call all their allies. I have never seen it happen before. I agree with Orkonkel. Must be a bug, if you're positive you didn't mark the checkbox my accident.
 

atwix

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They can only do that if they are co-beligerent. That happens if you check the box, or if they are in a coalition against you. But I think not even coalition members can call all their allies. I have never seen it happen before. I agree with Orkonkel. Must be a bug, if you're positive you didn't mark the checkbox my accident.

mark what checkbox? they attacked ME remember :p
 

misterbean

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chopak

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Note that i gave order for xxx ships so to speak, to deplete my ducat pool, before i sent the peace deal. Result is that castile gets fewer ducats. And the day after i just cancelled all ship orders.

I ordered xx ships again to deplete my ducat pool, and the result is that i 'only' have to pay 10 ducats in that peace deal. Granted, it costed me a few loans, waiting for the peace deal to pop up. But I fought too hard for that ducat pool to let it be taken away!

Oh, come on! How is that not cheating?
 

Broetchenholer

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Your run has baited me into trying something similar ad quite frankly, i've wasted about 5 days of free time :D

I tried vassalizing south east asia as Mathiawar, with about 20 basetax. It's not impossible, but it's damn near impossible. I started dozens of times over, a political constellation like yours never occured once. 3 times i was able to vassalize Lan Xang just to get instantly murdered by a terror coalition. Ayuthaya never takes as much land as in your run from Lan Xang, even if they fully occupy they take 3 provinces at max. It's barely enough to get Lan Xang into vassalisation. But gives 100 AE with the whole rest of the region. It also means that ayuthaya doesn't face any major rebel problems and that way you never get to the point where you can cascade wars to work around coalitions. If that was your first try, i have to say well played but holy shit you got lucky there.
 

atwix

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Oh, come on! How is that not cheating?

Oh, come on! How is that not cheating?

i guess it all comes down what you call cheating and what exploits are. In theory the ai could do the exact same tactic :)

but i'm beginning to wonder if i should have said "no exploits" at start.

Many people use tricks like this, and hardly will even consider it as cheating or exploiting.

I just did it, and didn't really feel like "geez i'm seriously cheating here".

I guess the debate on that will fire more in the long run inside the thread :(
 

atwix

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Your run has baited me into trying something similar ad quite frankly, i've wasted about 5 days of free time :D

I tried vassalizing south east asia as Mathiawar, with about 20 basetax. It's not impossible, but it's damn near impossible. I started dozens of times over, a political constellation like yours never occured once. 3 times i was able to vassalize Lan Xang just to get instantly murdered by a terror coalition. Ayuthaya never takes as much land as in your run from Lan Xang, even if they fully occupy they take 3 provinces at max. It's barely enough to get Lan Xang into vassalisation. But gives 100 AE with the whole rest of the region. It also means that ayuthaya doesn't face any major rebel problems and that way you never get to the point where you can cascade wars to work around coalitions. If that was your first try, i have to say well played but holy shit you got lucky there.

did you get +100 relation with all neighbouring nations before making the peace?

Also, in the beginning of my run, no nation could make coalition versus me, since i didn't BORDER anyone. An Island was my only core.

A nation needs to border a province of your nation to make a coalition. It can't make coalition if only your vassals border them.

That is why i took one province from champa while vassalising them, made claims of it, and sold the province back to champa.

In theory you can make one claim of a vassalised nation (who you took one province from for claim making) and sell the province back a month after vassalising a nation.

Regarding the political situation:

It all depends what Ayutthaya does with rivals. If many nations rival dai viet, dai viet usually stands alone, but rest might ally up together.

If ayutthaya rivals malacca, they usually also rival lan xang. I think that was my starting situation.

I restarted a fewx times, and i only saw 2 political situations. One where dai viet is alone with load of rivals, and one where lan xang stays alone.

If entire south east asia allies each other, i'd gone for malacca/pasai/siak/Brunei/etc.
 

Broetchenholer

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That's interesting. You said they need to border a core? Then this would definetely not be true, cause i never cored anything either. I am playing Mathiawar and while this gives me a bit more basetax and force-limit compared to tiny ryukyu, it also means i get dragged into indian wars all the time. In my latest run, i wasn't able to sell back the inland province to champa cause i was constantly in Vijayanagars wars. But i kept it uncored and after vassalizing Lan Xang with 100 AE penalty with all of South East Asia, Ayutthaya, Dai Viet, Pegu and Arakan instantly went into a coalition. Only Dai Viet bordered a non-cored province, the rest did only border my vassals.

In the ton of games i started, lan xang usually allies pegu and either lan na or ava/hsengwi. Ayutthaya usually allies dai viet, the only one who is alone 90% of the time is Khmer.