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Casluerj

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DSYoungEsq said:
Heck, he should write a guide to how to survive an attack from Austria and Brandenburg in alliance as Turkey in the 1680's, then read it and use it himself. :rofl:

<ducking and running for the exit>

LOL! Yep, such guide would rock! Especially when Turkey manage to get Venice, Pest and Istria from Austria and then some years after lose only Venice having to fight against Von Dessau and Prinz Eugene in a game without random leaders and during some of the bey's event :D
 

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Casluerj said:
LOL! Yep, such guide would rock! Especially when Turkey manage to get Venice, Pest and Istria from Austria and then some years after lose only Venice having to fight against Von Dessau and Prinz Eugene in a game without random leaders and during some of the bey's event :D

Yes!! :D

It has begun. ;)

Well, I haven't had books and hilarious(ly long) AAR's in mind anyway, just observations, stories (like this one if it will be finished) and discussion about applied Grand Strategies with comments and ideas. :D
 

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DSYoungEsq said:
Heck, he should write a guide to how to survive an attack from Austria and Brandenburg in alliance as Turkey in the 1680's, then read it and use it himself. :rofl:

<ducking and running for the exit>


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

And one about how to avoid Turrene laying waste in Ukraina.

<hiding behind Tem and doing :p >
 

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Casluerj said:
Oh yes this too :D... fighting as Russia against Persia, OE, BB (Temujin!), France and England hehe.... some good guides I could create ...LOL

You see ;)
 

admiral drake

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just go to edit and delete the post ;)
 

admiral drake

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instead of making a guide how to fight everytime how about you make a guide to avoid getting in those kind of situations in the first place :rolleyes:
refering to diplomatic failure or gangbang or multifront invasions ect ect ect........
 

Casluerj

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admiral drake said:
just go to edit and delete the post ;)

Thx... have never check that feature.

admiral drake said:
instead of making a guide how to fight everytime how about you make a guide to avoid getting in those kind of situations in the first place

Good idea. Would be a great guide, but writing a MP guide about diplomacy is very difficult. First because ppl isnt equal and second because human brain is just toooo complicated... :)
 
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I firmly believe the best way to avoid gangbangs is a carefully managed Non-Aggression Pact system. For example, my uber-austria in WAR IV (maybe III, cannot remember atm) was built by such a regime. It broke down when King John's France refused to sign a NAP of proper length, Lady Europa's Brandenburg rebelled against Austrian hegemony in Germany, and I made some mistakes of my own that didnt correct the problems.

My tactics there:
1. Signed NAP very early with France for 10 years.
2. Immediately (like 3 months later, iirc) launched pre-emptive attack against Ottomans with AI ally coalition of zombie armies while OE was fighting Persia, OE caught completely by surprise
3. Forced Ottomans into short NAP regime (until 1512, iirc) and small land concession (one province, iirc).
4. Attacked France at end of first NAP. Insisted upon NAP as part of peace deal.
5. Launched second attack on Ottoman Empire, despite plenty of lead time, Holististic God was crushed in several decisive battles culiminating in the fall of Constantinople multiple times and its reduction to a minimal fort.
6. After HoG quit without notification, forced sub (Fredrik, iirc) to sign extended NAP until 1540 to protect my Hungarian inheritance (or else I would have had a port on the Aegean Sea, I held almost all Turkish land on my side of Bosphorous).
6. Dismembered Poland with Russia.
7. Precisely when I was running out of NAP time, Lady Europa refused to accept 100 year vassalization as Brandenburg in exchange for 8 provinces (4 from Netherlands, 4 from Poland, including Prussia/Danzig). Declared war on Brandenburg and launched massive invasion. Brandenburg armies crushed, 99% warscore, forced Brandenburg into accepting vassalization or losing multiple provinces. Russian invasion of annexed Hungarian lands during war forces me to give up Ruthenia/Moldova to Russia.
8. Time between NAP expirations growing smaller. Launched war against France. Stalemate prevents imposition of desired NAP terms. Multi-Front war looms.
9. Had to quit EU2 temporarily due to real life issues (new job, iirc.)

I have written along similar lines HERE
 

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Casluerj said:
Thx... have never check that feature.



Good idea. Would be a great guide, but writing a MP guide about diplomacy is very difficult. First because ppl isnt equal and second because human brain is just toooo complicated... :)

Come on Caslu, write a guide... (don't be shy :rofl: ) If u can't write in English like Ryo I belive Ryo would check the text and correct it or u can write it in Portugese and let someone translate it for you ;). One thing is certain - you are best non educated diplomat I have ever seen and the latest Drake's idea is good. Experimenting with this game I have found myself inside Thirst for Glory and had six wars in rapid sucession. Three of those was against England, one against Prussia and OE and Napoleon sealed my fate. All in all in first war (against England) I lost 50 ducats, in second I lost two COTs and Mexico, in third I regained CoT and Mexico and finnaly was overrun by Napoleon loosing two provinces and freedom. OE and Prussia also found my Spain hostile and unsimpatetic so I was DOWed by them too. Drake could write some diplo guide too ;) on how could sub avoid literaly everybody DOWing him :rofl: . Opinions about succesfull Spains would be welcomed - how to hold front in NA and to protect mainland against France?? In other words what should Spain do if it finds herself in hostile relations with France AND England. Just curious because I have thought about that since and can't find a solution. Btw, Ryo and others - one observation; it seems that starving Spain is not a best way to win the war. England had almost all valuable CoTs in the world and they embargoed me for larger part of the game. Spain barely noticed and its MI was a little smaller than England's. On the other hand difference in naval support proved deadly for Spain in second war although we split navies into two parts (warships and transporters) and transporters carried 100k infantry just in case of a war in Middle America. Those reinforcements left English and Swedesh troops horrified and temporarily Spain took adventage in that front.

Please all observations are welcomed...
 
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I hate playing as Spain because it is a colonial hell during the first century. Spain used to be #1 in like every MP game on the board. Now it is usually doing poorly. I have two potential theories:

1. Spain is hated by most veterans due to being a pain in the ass to play and thus usually given to an inexperienced player to run. Thus the experienced player in France is much more powerful than if he had a veteran neighbor in Spain. Also, more people are playing Venice these days and that screws Spain.

2. Changes to scenario design to increase anti-Spanish competition by boosting France and England's colonial strength (explorer reductions hurt Spain, manpower changes often do to, trade reductions can trigger more inflation as non-gold income declines, etc).

I think it is a combination of these two effects.

Now as a consequence of this, knowledge about ruling the world as Spain is being lost. I am at work right now and bored out of my skull, so I will write up a little something for you, Nab. Check back in this thread in a couple hours.
 

admiral drake

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Nabukodonosor said:
Come on Caslu, write a guide... (don't be shy :rofl: ) If u can't write in English like Ryo I belive Ryo would check the text and correct it or u can write it in Portugese and let someone translate it for you ;). One thing is certain - you are best non educated diplomat I have ever seen and the latest Drake's idea is good. Experimenting with this game I have found myself inside Thirst for Glory and had six wars in rapid sucession. Three of those was against England, one against Prussia and OE and Napoleon sealed my fate. All in all in first war (against England) I lost 50 ducats, in second I lost two COTs and Mexico, in third I regained CoT and Mexico and finnaly was overrun by Napoleon loosing two provinces and freedom. OE and Prussia also found my Spain hostile and unsimpatetic so I was DOWed by them too. Drake could write some diplo guide too ;) on how could sub avoid literaly everybody DOWing him :rofl: . Opinions about succesfull Spains would be welcomed - how to hold front in NA and to protect mainland against France?? In other words what should Spain do if it finds herself in hostile relations with France AND England. Just curious because I have thought about that since and can't find a solution. Btw, Ryo and others - one observation; it seems that starving Spain is not a best way to win the war. England had almost all valuable CoTs in the world and they embargoed me for larger part of the game. Spain barely noticed and its MI was a little smaller than England's. On the other hand difference in naval support proved deadly for Spain in second war although we split navies into two parts (warships and transporters) and transporters carried 100k infantry just in case of a war in Middle America. Those reinforcements left English and Swedesh troops horrified and temporarily Spain took adventage in that front.

Please all observations are welcomed...

isn't youre fault actually thing is perms can make plans before the sub even shows i was planning to dow you and was counting on clive in mexico unfortunatly didn't notice the crt and i was far from realy prepared anyway
basicle i was overconfident the first war
 

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ryoken69 said:
I am at work right now and bored out of my skull, so I will write up a little something for you, Nab. Check back in this thread in a couple hours.

Thanks, I would help out to clear some questions that I have now about how to survive with Spain. Problem of two distant fronts, small navy and small man power seems scary!
 
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Viva Espana: A Spanish Strategy Guide

VIVA ESPANA

This guide is for Nab. I didnt intend for it to be this long, but it kinda grew out of control. It is a general strategy guide for MP Spain, as requested by Nab. Due to the generality of it, I tried to avoid specific advice, instead favoring general maxims. Dont follow this like it is Holy Writ, it is only a template for your own style.

Spain is a hard country to play. There are a lot of things to do simultaneously in Europe and the Americas. In this strategy, I am going to PRETEND THAT ASIA DOES NOT EXIST. Any headway you make in Asia is wonderful, but I am going to limit myself to just the European and American regions to keep the guide simplistic. That is not to say you should not go to Asia. At least go to trade. AT LEAST. But I am not going to talk about Asia anymore after this paragraph. Goodbye Asia...

I am also assuming 1492 start date.

The Americas:

After 1550, you should be making at least as much money from the Americas as you are making in Europe. Over time, you should draw a large majority of your income from the Americas. There are three sources of wealth in the Americas; taxes, trade, and gold. However, in order to get those, you need to have a good exploration strategy and a conquest strategy.

Exploration:
My "route of choice" to the Americas is greatly helped by Portugal. You need military access with Portugal, so if they are not human, this may be a problem. Maybe not, just telling you. Without Portugal, you will have to sail from either Andalusia or the Canaries, which will mean longer and more dangerous trips. With access you can dock in the Azores and Cape Verde, as well as future Portugese ports in Brazil or Africa if you need to. If you are playing a scenario with the Creek nation, sail to the Azores and then sail for Savannah. Just 20k will easily conquer the Creek. And you will now have 2 ports in the Americas. If there is no Creek nation, sail a triangle from Azores to Hispaniola to Carolinas. Bermuda, the Carolinas, and Hispaniola make create FIRST COLONIES. Choose provinces with non-hostile natives and send out a lot of trading posts. Once the trading posts succeed, send colonies. I usually recommend provinces with 50% or higher success rates (this is after a TP is built, building a TP almost always raises the colonial percentage rate) for my first colonies.

Conquest:
I am going to assume that the only native nations in your colonial region are the Aztecs, Maya, and Incas. They are the only important ones at least. As soon as you can, get a conquistador to the Americas with an army of around 20,000 men. Once you discover an Aztec coastal province, you will be able to see their capital. Declare war, land, and march to Tenochitlan. Once you control the capital province, an event will trigger and you will inherit them. As soon as you can, declare war on the Maya and crush them as well. Then use that conquistador to send a small party south to discover all of Central America and Colombia. Eventually you will run into the Incas. You will need a good size army to take down the Inca. If you get a colonial city in the Caribbean, you can raise fresh troops there and land them in Panama (or march from Mexico, but it is a long walk and you will take casualties). Start in the north and sweep down along the coast. Do not engage the Incan army when possible. Maneuver so that you defeat the last Incan army in battle and it is in retreat when you take the last province (so they cannot just grab an undefended province and prevent annexation).

Complete the conquests AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. The sooner the annexation, the more income over time. Counteract gold inflation by raising non-gold income, not by putting off annexation of gold provinces.

Taxes:
You should develop colonies to cities and TPs to level 6 before moving on to other provinces. If you have extra colonists, develop a couple of provinces simultaneously; however I would recommend trying to avoid ever having more than 5 provinces in development at the same time. In the early years of colonization, I recommend building colonies in the poor-trade-good provinces; fish, grain, etc. Of course, violate this if you need a port in the area, obviously. AS SOON AS IT IS A CITY, build a tax collector. You will need all the income you can get. Claim the high-trade-value provinces with TPs and upgrade them to level 6 as quickly as possible.

Convert pagan provinces ASAP. Gold first, high-trade-value second, everything else last. Send as many missionaries as you can possibly afford.

Trade:
Grab all the colonial COTs you can. Trade vigorously in them. In the early years when there are no non-Spanish territories in the Caribbean basin, establish pure monopolies and milk all you can from that trade. If other european powers try to get into the trade, embargo them. The odds of the COT dying is higher, but it will probably respawn in one of your territories. There is a chance the trade will go to a non-Spaniard, but very unlikely. Never embargo Portugal if they are human, you dont want them to even THINK of betraying you.

Put one galley in every coastal sea zone. This will keep pirates away. If a European war erupts with a colonial power, you may want to watch these ships and dock them if the enemy sends a fleet around your colonies. You dont want them to gain free warscore from killing galleys.

Gold:
Colonize every gold province that is open and build it up to a city. Conquer every one that is native. Build tax collectors on the gold ASAP, forget revolt risk. Maintaining a colonial force to put down rebellions is cheaper than going without that extra income. Build up your non-gold assets (trade/taxes) to offset your gold income so you dont get inflation.

Colonial Defense
Choose one or two central location(s). Station large armies here with a fleet of galleys to transport them where needed. Do not deploy multiple smaller armies all over; a human opponent will not land small armies all over so such a tactic is useless. Keep your army concentrated. If a colonial attack is launched, put your armies to sea and wait a bit for the enemy to reveal his plans, then land and surprise him.

Europe:

All your escapades in the Americas are child's play compared to Europe. Europe is where the big boys play. The Americas exist only to finance your wars here. Because of the Americas, you may be operating with a smaller standing army than many of your opponents. You will have to make up for this with astute diplomacy. There are three regions that are vitally important to your cause in Europe; Iberia, the Netherlands, and Italy.

Iberia is your homeland. If the enemy is pressing you here, you have a serious problem. You need to make sure that this is the least likely place for the enemy to attack. The best border for you with France is Rousillon/Bearn. The French will not like this. However, this creates a tighter choke point for the French to attack through. You should structure your diplomacy around achieving this goal. The ultimate goal will be keeping the battles centered around the Netherlands and Italy and AWAY FROM IBERIA. Colonially, you want to keep fighting ongoing between France, England, Holland, and other colonial players and NOT with Spain.

In order to do this, I am going simplify my strategy down into packages. You offer a package to another player in a diplomatic exchange. These are rough guidelines, you should negotiate the finer points. The ultimate goal is to create a SUSTAINABLE LONG TERM diplomatic relationship. This will provide you with stability, information, and security.

France:
Despite your instincts, France can be your best friend. They are sitting on the only land route into your homeland, they are competitive with England colonially, and they are diplomatically surrounded so they are more likely to negotiate than other powers (like England or Ottomans). The problem is that France wants into the Netherlands and Italy.

There are two ways to manage France; keep them in a tight vise (more force, less diplomacy) or co-opt them with bribery and manipulation (more diplomacy, less force). The Netherlands and Italy prove useful negotiating points. You can "trade land for peace" to borrow from the Israeli strategy, or I prefer to "trade land for land".

French Package A: In exchange for a stable Rousillon/Bearn border, give France land concessions elsewhere (Franche Comte and Artois work well) or give France your support in Italy (support for French Genoa, for example).

French Package B: In exchange for stable Rousillon/Bearn border and colonial peace, pledge solidarity with France against England. Assistance for them in colonial wars with England, military access in Spanish ports, Spanish subsidies, and other inducements can keep England and France at each other's throats and not at yours.

French Package C: The anti-Austrian option. A deal could potentially be forged with France that would abandon your support for Austria in exchange for Spanish Italy/Netherlands free from French attack and a secure Rousillon/Bearn border. Use with caution. France could become extremely manpower heavy and turn on you.

England:
Due to its distance from you, England is much less of a threat militarily but a much greater threat economically than France. England has the potential to become a fearsome naval power and cut you off from your American bounty. This cannot be allowed to happen.

The best way to deal with England is to create some conditions which tie them to the continent in some way. This could mean ownership of land in Europe (Netherlands or Brittany, for example). This should always come about as a "helpful gesture" from Spain. You want them to succeed..... right? :D

English Package A: Straight colonial peace deal. Agree to limit your colonial power to certain regions in exchange for their support against France or pledges to not intrude in other regions. As always, free trade in English COTs is nice. This should be a baseline deal; even if you are making deals with France you should have a deal with England like this.

English Package B: Agree to give England the northern Netherlands in exchange for something of value to you; help vs France, colonial boundaries, etc. This will create a permanent liability to England on the continent. Support their claims on Calais, offer them military access, and so on to sweeten the deal. If England and France are always at war, you win.


Austria
Austria is usually your friend. They need your gold, you need their military power to augment your own. You should always seek to maintain a balance of power in central europe. If France is too strong, you are in danger. If Austria is too strong, it will threaten Italy. Try to keep your diplomacy hinged around this balance. Support Austria when it is in danger, let it expend its own resources when it is strong. Balance!

Austrian Package A: General deal. Mutual support in the event of gang-bang attacks, gold transfer from Madrid to Vienna, Spanish Italy, and so on.

Austrian Package B: Agree to give back Southern Netherlands after Abdication (sell/trade Northern Netherlands for something else from another country like England or a Scandinavian) in exchange for something you want (northern Italy, for example). Dont let Austria grow too strong, but help keep them dominant in Central Europe.


Ottoman Empire:
It is rare that the Ottomans and Spanish work together. That is because the Ottomans grow to a massive size, just like the Spanish do. However, the Ottomans can be an important lever against your enemies.

Ottoman Package A: Offer your support for an Ottoman India in exchange for something you want diplomatically. Ottomans in India keep the English and French away, which is nice. To avoid a super-OE, court Russian and Polish friendship and use them as pawns against your supposed "friend" in Constantinople.

Ottoman Package B: Agree to divide the Mediterranian in half and each take one half. Create a stable peace agreement between your two nations based on Ottoman kindness towards Austria. You will not join a Austro-Ottoman war if they are not too rough on Austria. In exchange for this, there is peace. Peace is good.


Portugal:
KEEP PORTUGAL HAPPY. Divide the world between yourselves and live in harmony. The last thing you want is a Portugese backstab. That is all, Portugal is simple.
 

K'shar

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Nabukodonosor said:
Thanks, I would help out to clear some questions that I have now about how to survive with Spain. Problem of two distant fronts, small navy and small man power seems scary!

Spain is super-uber in the hands of a good player ... you can get a close to an insurmountable lead game start if you play your European diplomacy well (don't get dragged into to many wars). Then you can be sure there will be no 'historical'-decline and you may even remain the arbiter of europe past mid-game.

edit: become=remain ;) , being that you should be the pre-eminant super power pre 1650s.
 
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K'shar said:
Spain is super-uber in the hands of a good player ... you can get a close to an insurmountable lead game start if you play your European diplomacy well (don't get dragged into to many wars). Then you can be sure there will be no 'historical'-decline and you may even become the arbiter of europe past mid-game.

Yep. This is why I usually advocate that France should seek peace with Austria and just incessantly hound Spain during the first 50 years or so. Otherwise, they get a colonial empire set up and they become unstoppable until their leaders run out and then there is a CHANCE of taking them out.
 

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ryoken69 said:
Yep. This is why I usually advocate that France should seek peace with Austria and just incessantly hound Spain during the first 50 years or so. Otherwise, they get a colonial empire set up and they become unstoppable until their leaders run out and then there is a CHANCE of taking them out.

Aye, the early game France-Austria-Spain axis can be most inventive and exciting with the right minds in friction.
 

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1. Colonial fortresses: do you recommend Spain spend the money to establish fortifications in its American colonies?

2. How important do you think it is for Spain to try and obtain California and its provinces?

3. Should Spain fight for the Caribbean?