Russo-Turkish wars in VIP?

unmerged(75409) · Sep 9, 2009

Hey there,

So i am playing as Greece right now, it's 1872, and I am thinking the Russo-Turkish hate should start any time now and I want to join in so I can rape the Ottomans. I was a bit disappointed in how quickly other scripted wars were ended through events (Oriental Crisis: 4 months, Crimean war: 3 months, German-French war: 2 months) so what am I to expect for the coming years? Does VIP have a script for the Russo-Turkish war, and does it allow for Greek involvement or a protracted war?

Many thanks in advance!

unmerged(75409) · Sep 11, 2009

Well no replies at all so I shall reply myself... just played to 1878, and whoopedee there was the Russo-Turkish war, with events and all. Turns out though that no one thought of poor little Greece (me) which allied with Russia, fought like a Lion and got **NOTHING** out of it!!! What the hell!!? That was a let down!! Bulgaria, Serbia, Russia, Montenegro and even Austria got involved and got provinces, but Greece is just force-peaced back to its initial orders even though I conquered everything up to and beyond Thessaloniki

I'm not mad at you VIP makers, just mad in general. I will write events for a Greek involvement by myself. If Greece manages to seize Thessaloniki it will get the city plus its core provinces to the west. If Greece does not do well but survives, it shall get its cores in Epirus and Thessaly but Thessaloniki will stay Turkish. What do you think of that?

unmerged(161960) · Sep 11, 2009

sounds awesome

unmerged(75409) · Sep 11, 2009

It will be, when I find out where the VIP events are stored!!

Good thing the gf is out all next week. I know what I'll be spending my time on...

RELee · Sep 11, 2009

/victoria/scenarios/VIPscen/events

unmerged(131989) · Sep 11, 2009

Leviathan07 said:
Well no replies at all so I shall reply myself... just played to 1878, and whoopedee there was the Russo-Turkish war, with events and all. Turns out though that no one thought of poor little Greece (me) which allied with Russia, fought like a Lion and got **NOTHING** out of it!!! What the hell!!? That was a let down!! Bulgaria, Serbia, Russia, Montenegro and even Austria got involved and got provinces, but Greece is just force-peaced back to its initial orders even though I conquered everything up to and beyond Thessaloniki

I'm not mad at you VIP makers, just mad in general. I will write events for a Greek involvement by myself. If Greece manages to seize Thessaloniki it will get the city plus its core provinces to the west. If Greece does not do well but survives, it shall get its cores in Epirus and Thessaly but Thessaloniki will stay Turkish. What do you think of that?

Greece will get border provinces in 1881, as historical (even if it doesn't get involved in the war). Historically the involvement of Greece in this war was only small-scale, and rather than making them go into a full war with the Ottomans, where they would likely get overrun and ahistoric situations subsequently arising, we just model it by Greece getting those provinces at a later date (historically - as well as how it is in the mod - in 1881).

unmerged(75409) · Sep 11, 2009

RELee said:
/victoria/scenarios/VIPscen/events

o ok thanks

unmerged(75409) · Sep 11, 2009

Palisadoes said:
Greece will get border provinces in 1881, as historical (even if it doesn't get involved in the war). Historically the involvement of Greece in this war was only small-scale, and rather than making them go into a full war with the Ottomans, where they would likely get overrun and ahistoric situations subsequently arising, we just model it by Greece getting those provinces at a later date (historically - as well as how it is in the mod - in 1881).

But that's just Thessaly, right? I think if Greece was involved in the Russo-Turkish war as a Russian ally, and it beat the Ottomans all the way beyond Thessaloniki, it should be given its 1912 borders early. (I also owned Thessaly already before the war.)

Of course if they don't do that, and instead fight for their dear life on the 1836 border, without ever reaching Kozani or Edessa (never mind Thessaloniki) then possible gains would probably be reverted to the 1881 boundary at the Berlin conference revision of the San Stefano treaty.

I think I will include those two possibilities. And add a third one - if Greece loses the war together with Russia it should get diddly squat in 1881.

BTW I thought Greece stayed completely neutral in the 1878 war... did Wikipedia lie to me??

unmerged(131989) · Sep 12, 2009

Leviathan07 said:
But that's just Thessaly, right? I think if Greece was involved in the Russo-Turkish war as a Russian ally, and it beat the Ottomans all the way beyond Thessaloniki, it should be given its 1912 borders early. (I also owned Thessaly already before the war.)

But that is completely ahistorical. Why should the mod accomodate for player decisions like that? Historically the Greeks did not go so far as Thessaloniki, so why should we have to include that possibility in the mod, since it is unlikely!?

Of course if they don't do that, and instead fight for their dear life on the 1836 border, without ever reaching Kozani or Edessa (never mind Thessaloniki) then possible gains would probably be reverted to the 1881 boundary at the Berlin conference revision of the San Stefano treaty.

I think I will include those two possibilities. And add a third one - if Greece loses the war together with Russia it should get diddly squat in 1881.

As I say, there is no point. We have a chain which works fine, and is historically and ahistorically plausible considering how things were - the Greeks would've been rewarded regardless!

BTW I thought Greece stayed completely neutral in the 1878 war... did Wikipedia lie to me??

IIRC, from my reading, Greece got involved in the later stages, just before (or after) the Russians accepted a ceasfire.

unmerged(75409) · Sep 12, 2009

Palisadoes said:
But that is completely ahistorical. Why should the mod accomodate for player decisions like that? Historically the Greeks did not go so far as Thessaloniki, so why should we have to include that possibility in the mod, since it is unlikely!?

As I say, there is no point. We have a chain which works fine, and is historically and ahistorically plausible considering how things were - the Greeks would've been rewarded regardless!

IIRC, from my reading, Greece got involved in the later stages, just before (or after) the Russians accepted a ceasfire.

Well maybe it's ahistorical, but if you play Greece it is not too hard to do better than in real history and then the events should accomodate for that. For example no player will stay idle and peaceful for 50 years, after all you get all these cores in 1840s already and you easily run out of pops in the 1850s even with slow industrialization.

The event chain for the Russo-Turkish war is really cool but as Greece it is a very harsh let-down to not get anything out of the peace. You occupy Edirne and European Turkey, and all of a sudden it is peace again and Russia gets all the gains. At the very least you should get the 1881 gains early, other wise its not a game but a history book reenactment.

So anyways I adapted some VIP events and added some myself, so that the Russo-Turkish war event chain allows for Greek participation and even extraordinary success...

New events: (Numbers are 160100 to 160106, regardless of which country they fire for)

Code:

###############################################
#Greece is involved in the Russo-Turkish War on 
# the Russian Side -by Leviathan07
###############################################
event = {
	id = 160100
	random = no
	country = GRE

	trigger = {
		war = { country = RUS country = TUR }
		war = { country = GRE country = TUR }
		OR = {
			alliance = { country = RUS country = GRE }
			alliance = { country = GRE country = RUS }
			}
		OR = { # Any one of the events that cause Russia to start the war
			event = 251060
			event = 251061
			event = 251062
			event = 251063
		}
	}

	picture = 1878_war

	name = "Greek involvment in the Russo-Turkish War"
	desc = "We are now fighting the Turks alongside with our Russian allies. Let us hope this will end favorably!"
	style = 0  

	date = { month = april year = 1877 }
	offset = 4 #10
	deathdate = { year = 1878 }    
 
	action_a = {
		name = "To arms!"
		command = { type = relation  which = RUS value = 20 } 
		command = { type = relation  which = TUR value = -50 }
	}
} 

###############################################
#Ottomans: Admit Defeat ? Same as VIP event 279050,
# but with Greece in control of Thessaloniki.  -by Leviathan07
# 
# Note that Russia may still refuse to sign peace (1% chance with AI)
# In that case a great war with Britain will break out and 
# nothing will come of the claims made through this event. 
###############################################
# conditions in 279050TUR were modified so that it can't fire if event 160100 has fired AND Greece is holding Thessaloniki. 
# If both conditions are fulfilled then this variant will fire. 
event = {
	id = 160101
	random = no
	country = TUR

	trigger = {
		ai = yes
		event = 279052 # Russo-Turkish War happens (TUR ai)
[COLOR="Blue"]		event = 160100 # Greece is fighting alongside with Russia
		occupied = { country = TUR data = 4 }
		control = { province = 1006 data = GRE  } # Thessaloniki 
[/COLOR]		OR = {
			event = 251060
			event = 251061
			event = 251062
			event = 251063
		}
		NOT = {
			event = 279012
		}
	}

	picture = 1878_war

	name = "EVT279012N"
	desc = "EVT279012D"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = march year = 1878 }  
	offset = 4 #30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1885 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTYES"
		command = { type = trigger which = 251064 }
		command = { type = sleepevent  which = 279012 }
		command = { type = sleepevent  which = 279050 }
[COLOR="Blue"]    		command = { type = trigger which = 160101 } # notify greece that they won a claim to thessaloniki[/COLOR]
		}
}


###############################################
# Russo-Turkish War: Greece won a claim to Thessaloniki -by Leviathan07
###############################################
event = {
	id = 160102
	random = no
	country = GRE

  #Triggered by TUR160101A

	name = "Thessaloniki claimed"
	desc = "Turkey has asked Russia for an armistice. Our victories have won us a claim to the city of Thessaloniki. If the Russians accept, we can proudly expect to be awarded ownership of the city at the peace treaty."
	style = 0  

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTOK"
 		command = { type = prestige value = 10 } 
 		command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -25 } 
	}
}

###############################################
# Russo-Turkish War: Greek spoils of war (Greece did not 
# manage to take Thessaloniki), Turkish cession -by Leviathan07
###############################################
event = {
	id = 160103
	random = no
	country = TUR

	trigger = { 
		event = 251066 # Peace at San Stefano RUS
		event = 160100 # Greece fights alongside with Russia GRE
		NOT = {
				event = 160101 # Greece takes Thessaloniki
			}
		}

  picture = crimean_wars

	date = { day = 24 month = april year = 1877 }  
	offset = 5 #30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1885 }

	name = "Greek spoils in the treaty of San Stefano"																																						  
  desc = "According to the peace treaty that we signed with Russia, we have to cede Thessaly and Epirus to Greece." 
	style = 0  
																		     
	action_a = { 
		name = "Rats!"
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 160104 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 1333 } #Ioannina
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 1333 } #Grevena
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 1333 } #Volos
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 1333 } #Larisa
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 1333 } #Árta
		command = { type = secedestate which = GRE value = 1335 }#Roúmeli (if parts were lost in prior wars)
		command = { type = secedestate which = GRE value = 1339 }#Peloponnisos (if parts were lost in prior wars)
		command = { type = trigger  which = 160105 } # Greece notification
		}
} 

###############################################
# Russo-Turkish War: Greek spoils of war (Greece did not 
# manage to take Thessaloniki), Turkish cession -by Leviathan07
###############################################
event = {
	id = 160104
	random = no
	country = TUR

	trigger = { 
		event = 251066 # Peace at San Stefano RUS
    event = 160100 # Greece fights alongside with Russia GRE
    event = 160101 # Greece takes Thessaloniki
	}

  picture = crimean_wars

	date = { day = 24 month = april year = 1877 }  
	offset = 5 #30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1885 }

	name = "Greek spoils in the treaty of San Stefano"																																						  
	desc = "According to the peace treaty that we signed with Russia, we have to cede everything from Thessaly to Thessaloniki to Greece." 
	style = 0  
																		     
	action_a = { 
		name = "Rats!"
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 160103 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 920 } #Edessa
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 919 } #Kozani
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 1006 } #Thessaloniki
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 1350 } #Mitilini
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 1333 } #Ioannina
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 1330 } #Grevena
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 1367 } #Volos
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 1331 } #Larisa
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = GRE value = 1334 } #Árta
		command = { type = secedestate which = GRE value = 1335 }#Roúmeli (if parts were lost in prior wars)
		command = { type = secedestate which = GRE value = 1339 }#Peloponnisos (if parts were lost in prior wars)
		command = { type = trigger  which = 160106 } # Greece notification
		}
} 

###############################################
# Russo-Turkish War: Greek spoils of war (Greece did not 
# manage to take Thessaloniki), Greek notification -by Leviathan07
###############################################
event = {
	id = 160105
	random = no
	country = GRE

	#Triggered by TUR160103

  picture = crimean_wars

	name = "Greek spoils in the treaty of San Stefano"
	#desc = "Russia and Turkey have signed the treaty of San Stefano. We were rewarded for our sacrifices with lands in Thessaly and Epirus."
	style = 0  
                                                                                                                 
	action_a = {
		name = "Wonderful!"
    command = { type = prestige value = 15 }
	}
} 

###############################################
# Russo-Turkish War: Greek spoils of war (Greece managed 
# to take Thessaloniki), Greek notification -by Leviathan07
###############################################
event = {
	id = 160106
	random = no
	country = GRE

	#Triggered by TUR160104

  picture = crimean_wars

	name = "Greek spoils in the treaty of San Stefano"
	#desc = "Russia and Turkey have signed the treaty of San Stefano. Our glorious feats of arms have won us Thessaly, Epirus and Thessaloniki!"
	style = 0  
                                                                                                                 
	action_a = {
		name = "This is a great day for Greece!"
    command = { type = prestige value = 35 }
	}
}

Also some VIP events were adapted to allow for two possible events that have Turkey asking for peace terms:

VIP_Ottomans.txt

Code:

###############################################
#Admit Defeat ?  -by Hrast
###############################################
event = {
	id = 279012
	random = no
	country = TUR

	trigger = {
		ai = no
		war = { country = RUS country = TUR }
		OR = {
			event = 251060
			event = 251061
			event = 251062
			event = 251063
			}
		NOT = { control = { province = 970 } }
	}

	name = "EVT279012N"
	desc = "EVT279012D"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 24 month = april year = 1877 }  
	offset = 5 #30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1885 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTYES"
		ai_chance = 99
		command = { type = trigger which = 251064 }
		command = { type = sleepevent  which = 279050 }
[COLOR="Magenta"][COLOR="Red"]    command = { type = sleepevent  which = 160101 } # alternative to 279050 where greece holds thessaloniki[/COLOR][/COLOR]
		}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTNOENDWAR"
		ai_chance = 1
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = greek value = 8 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = serb value = 8 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = bulgarian value = 8 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = romanian value = 5 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = armenian value = 2 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 259018 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 250003 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 166054 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 217018 }
		command = { type = sleepevent  which = 279050 }
[COLOR="Red"]    command = { type = sleepevent  which = 160101 } # alternative to 279050 where greece holds thessaloniki[/COLOR]
		command = {type = leave_alliance which = ENG }
		command = {type = leave_alliance which = FRA }
		command = {type = leave_alliance which = AUS }
	}
}

###############################################
#Admit Defeat ?  -by Hrast
###############################################
event = {
	id = 279050
	random = no
	country = TUR

	trigger = {
		ai = yes
		event = 279052
		occupied = { country = TUR data = 4 }
		OR = {
			event = 251060
			event = 251061
			event = 251062
			event = 251063
		}
		NOT = {
			event = 279012
		}
[COLOR="Red"]		NOT = { AND = {
			event = 160100	# Greece is fighting alongside with Russia
			control = { province = 1006 data = GRE  } # Thessaloniki 
		}	}[/COLOR]
	}

	name = "EVT279012N"
	desc = "EVT279012D"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = march year = 1878 }  
	offset = 5 #30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1885 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTYES"
		command = { type = trigger which = 251064 }
		command = { type = sleepevent  which = 279012 }
[COLOR="Red"]		command = { type = sleepevent  which = 160101 } # alternative to 279050 where greece holds thessaloniki[/COLOR]
		}
}

###############################################
#Treaty of San Stefano  -by Hrast  
###############################################
 event = {
 	id = 279051
 	random = no
 	country = TUR

 	trigger = { 
		ai = yes
[COLOR="Red"]		OR = {
      event = 279050
      event = 160101 # alternative to 279050 where greece holds thessaloniki
    }[/COLOR]
		event = 251064
		}

 	name = "EVT279013N"
 	desc = "EVT279013D"
 	style = 0     

	date = { day = 1 month = march year = 1878 }  
	offset = 5 #30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1885 }

 	action_a = {
		name = "ACTACCEPT"
 		command = { type = peace  which = RUS }
 		command = { type = peace  which = GRE }
		command = { type = peace  which = ROM }
		command = { type = independence which = BUL value = 1 } 
 		command = { type = make_satellite which = BUL }
 		command = { type = prestige value = -50 } 
 		command = { type = trigger  which = 251066 }		
  		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = RUS value = 977 }
 		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = RUS value = 1026 }
 		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = RUS value = 1027 }
 		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = RUS value = 1039 }
 		command = { type = sleepevent which = 279013 } #Other San Stefano
	}
 }

###############################################
#Restoration of Montenegro's Independence
###############################################
event = {
	id = 279054
	random = no
	country = TUR

	trigger = { 
		owned = { province = 936 } #Montenegro
		NOT = { 
		  exists = MON
			}
		OR = {
		event = 279012
[COLOR="Red"]    OR = {
		  event = 279050
      event = 160101 # alternative to 279050 where greece holds thessaloniki 
    }[/COLOR]
			}
		 }

	name = "EVT279054N"
	desc = "EVT279054D"
	style = 0 

	date = { month = april year = 1877 }
	offset = 4 #10
	deathdate = { year = 1888 }    

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTOK"
		command = { type = independence which = MON value = 1 }
 		command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 25 } 
		command = { type = relation which = SER value = 25 } 
	}
}

###############################################
#Restoration of Serbia's Independence (if annexed during Russo-Turkish War)
###############################################
event = {
	id = 279072
	random = no
	country = TUR

	trigger = { 
		owned = { province = 930 } #Serbia
		atwar = no
		NOT = { 
		  	exists = SER
			}
		OR = {
			event = 279012
[COLOR="Red"]      OR = {
			  event = 279050
        event = 160101 # alternative to 279050 where greece holds thessaloniki
        }[/COLOR]
			}
		 }

	name = "EVT279054N"
	desc = "EVT279054D"
	style = 0 

	date = { month = april year = 1877 }
	offset = 4 #10
	deathdate = { year = 1888 }    

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTOK"
		command = { type = independence which = SER value = 1 }
 		command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 25 } 
		command = { type = relation which = SER value = 50 } 
	}
}


###############################################
#Serbia's borders post-Treaty of Berlin
###############################################
event = {
	id = 279073
	random = no
	country = TUR

	trigger = { 
		owned = { province = 941 } #nis
		event = 279072
		OR = {
			event = 279012
[COLOR="Red"]      			OR = {
			  event = 279050
        		  event = 160101 # alternative to 279050 where greece holds thessaloniki
			  }[/COLOR]
		 }
	}

	name = "EVT279054N"
	desc = "EVT279054D"
	style = 0 

	date = { month = april year = 1877 }
	offset = 4 #10
	deathdate = { year = 1888 }    

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTOK"
		command = { type = secedeprovince  which = SER value = 941 }
		command = { type = leave_alliance which = SER }
		command = { type = end_satellite_mastery which = SER }
	}
}

VIP_Moldavia.txt

Code:

###############################################
#Unification of Romania (post 1878 war) by OHgamer
###############################################
event = {
	id = 216007
	random = no
	country = MOL

	trigger = { 
		ai = no
		exists = WAL
		ai = WAL
[COLOR="Red"]		OR = {
		event = 279012
		event = 279050
    event = 160101 # alternative to 279050 where greece holds thessaloniki
			}[/COLOR]
		 }

	name = "EVT216003N" 
	desc = "EVT308006D"
	style = 0 

	date = { month = april year = 1877 }
	offset = 4 #10
	deathdate = { year = 1888 }    

	action_a = {
		name = "ACT308006"
		command = { type = country which = ROM }
		command = { type = inherit which = WAL }
		command = { type = capital which = 979 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = romanian value = -4 }
		command = { type = pop_consciousness which = romanian value = -4 } 
		command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -50 } 
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -50 } 
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 308007 }  
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 308006 }   
	}
}

VIP_Wallachia.txt

Code:

###############################################
#Unification of Romania both AI (post 1878 war) by OHgamer
###############################################
event = {
	id = 308006
	random = no
	country = WAL

	trigger = { 
		ai = yes
		exists = MOL
		ai = MOL
		OR = {
		event = 279012
		event = 279050
[COLOR="Red"]    event = 160101 # alternative to 279050 where greece holds thessaloniki[/COLOR]
			}
		 }

	name = "EVT216003N" 
	desc = "EVT308006D"
	style = 0 

	date = { month = april year = 1877 }
	offset = 4 #10
	deathdate = { year = 1888 }    

	action_a = {
		name = "ACT308006"
		command = { type = country which = ROM }
		command = { type = inherit which = MOL }
		command = { type = capital which = 979 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = romanian value = -4 }
		command = { type = pop_consciousness which = romanian value = -4 } 
		command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -50 } 
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -50 } 
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 308007 }  
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 216007 }   
	}
}

###############################################
#Unification of Romania (post 1878 war) by OHgamer
###############################################
event = {
	id = 308007
	random = no
	country = WAL

	trigger = { 
		ai = no
		exists = MOL
		ai = MOL
		OR = {
		event = 279012
		event = 279050
[COLOR="Red"]    event = 160101 # alternative to 279050 where greece holds thessaloniki[/COLOR]
			}
		 }

	name = "EVT216003N" 
	desc = "EVT308006D"
	style = 0 

	date = { month = april year = 1877 }
	offset = 4 #10
	deathdate = { year = 1888 }    

	action_a = {
		name = "ACT308006"
		command = { type = country which = ROM }
		command = { type = inherit which = MOL }
		command = { type = capital which = 979 }
		command = { type = pop_militancy which = romanian value = -4 }
		command = { type = pop_consciousness which = romanian value = -4 } 
		command = { type = relation which = AUS value = -50 } 
		command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -50 } 
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 308006 }  
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 216007 }   
	}
}

unmerged(75409) · Sep 12, 2009

With event picture

1878_war.bmp

Unfortunately the event screen did not show up on the screenshot. In any case the 1881 territory cession (which I think should come early if the Greeks take part in the 1878 war) includes Larissa, Grevena, Volos, Arta and Ioannina (?). In this screenshot the more expansive "territorial reward" was triggered, with also Kozani, Edessa and Thessaloniki included.

(Crete, Cyprus and the Aegean islands I already won from the Ottomans peacefully before the war.)

RELee · Sep 12, 2009

Leviathan07 said:
o ok thanks

No need for embarrassment. It probably took me a lot longer to hunt it down the first time than it took you to decide to ask. A LOT longer.

Talquin · Sep 15, 2009

just take istanbul and you'll have a even better reward.

unmerged(131989) · Sep 16, 2009

Talquin said:
just take istanbul and you'll have a even better reward.

We'll be replacing that Byzantium chain for something else in the future (hopefully next version). As for Leviathan's work here, it does look quite good for the alternate history chain. Might incorporate it somewhat.

unmerged(75409) · Sep 16, 2009

Talquin said:
just take istanbul and you'll have a even better reward.

To be honest, I chose "No" when that event popped up (in a much later war). I liked my Greece the way it was at that point and did not want to switch to a pseudo ancient setting. I was concerned with industrializing, getting rid of the con.monarchy, and getting the Socialists into power so I could promote POPs in good early 20th century fashion. Not with reenacting a rotten empire from the ash heap of history.

That and I noticed (browsing through the event file) that the Byzantine events seem to give you all kinds of state cultures, which I believe would make the game too easy. A victorious Greece should not get Turkish as state culture no matter what sort of sort of imperial pretense they reenact... they still hate the Turks today, never mind 100 years ago.

o

Well I am not much of a Byzanto-fan that's mostly it... I think it was a fairly evil and oppressive empire, by medieval standards, producing an unusual number of incompetent and cruel people. I guess if I liked Byzantine history more, I would have chosen the "Yes" choice in that event and would probably have appreciated all those flavor events a lot. No offense meant to the one who made all those Byzantine events.

unmerged(75409) · Sep 16, 2009

Palisadoes said:
We'll be replacing that Byzantium chain for something else in the future (hopefully next version). As for Leviathan's work here, it does look quite good for the alternate history chain. Might incorporate it somewhat.

I think the Byzantine events should stay in, if only for those who would like to totally ahistorically reenact that part. They were probably a lot of work to write so it would be a bit disappointing for the author if they were removed, wouldn't it?

However, an event that lets the Turks move from Constantinople to Ankara if they lose enough would be nice. Greece has a core on Constantinople (and Üsküdar on the other side of the Bosphorus!) which is not good for anything other than perpetual casus belli as it is. Or maybe Greece holding Constantinople would trigger some sort of International event chain where it becomes a Great Powers administrated country of its own? Like in 1918 historically. A great powers conference would probably intervene and take Constantinople away from the upstart Greeks.

I might eventually write such an event chain... I liked how the 1878 war events were written, that was really elegant... they just didn't give Greece a part to play in the war, although they did include a command to force peace between the Ottomans and Greece.

I actually have two pages of diagrams that I drew when I analyzed how they work and where my events would have to link into the existing events. Looks a bit like a UML class diagram

|AXiN| · Sep 16, 2009

The whole reason the Byzantine events are being removed is their total lack of connection with reality - iirc they were part of someone's AAR, and nobody is quite sure how they got into the VIP set.

unmerged(131989) · Sep 16, 2009

In addition to what |AXiN| said, the Byzantine events will be replaced by a chain whereby Greece seeks to fulfill the Megali Idea (and it should hopefully be a lot harder than the current Byzantine chain).

Archaalen · Sep 18, 2009

If Greece seized Thessaloniki during the Russo-Turkish War, then I would think that that should trigger the independence of Albania. Albania broke away to avoid being conquered by one of the other Balkan powers, since they were cut off from the rest of Ottoman territories once Thessaloniki WAS lost later on. Thoughts?

unmerged(131989) · Sep 18, 2009

Archaalen said:
If Greece seized Thessaloniki during the Russo-Turkish War, then I would think that that should trigger the independence of Albania. Albania broke away to avoid being conquered by one of the other Balkan powers, since they were cut off from the rest of Ottoman territories once Thessaloniki WAS lost later on. Thoughts?

Albania wasn't created due to Thessalonica being occupied, but due to it being occupied by Serbia and Greece, and the subsequent power vacuum allowing them to form their own state, supported by Austria-Hungary and other Great Powers, partly to prevent Serbia gaining a coastline. I would also be against it due to Thessalonica being on the coast, and thus easily invaded and captured (just as Constantinople is right now for the Byzantine chain).

Russo-Turkish wars in VIP?

Field Marshal

Field Marshal

Corporal

Field Marshal

A stranger in a strange land.

Field Marshal

Field Marshal

Field Marshal

Field Marshal

Field Marshal

Field Marshal

A stranger in a strange land.

Major

Field Marshal

Field Marshal

Field Marshal

General

Field Marshal

Colonel

Field Marshal