Russian Provinces

[DanubianCossak]

Why? The Russian wikipedia know the city as Белоозере. Beloozero. Not Бело озере.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Белозерское_княжество

Thats because its an adjective. When you make an adjective of a 2 word name, you can make it one word. So Beloe Ozero (white like) is the name of the lake and region IIRC, HOWEVER, the duchy of Belo Ozero is called Beloozerskoe Knyazhestvo aka Белозерское княжество.

Same way the city which is located there is called Belozersk. City of/on the white lake more or less.

 

[Thure]

Thats because its an adjective. When you make an adjective of a 2 word name, you can make it one word. So Beloe Ozero (white like) is the name of the lake and region IIRC, HOWEVER, the duchy of Belo Ozero is called Beloozerskoe Knyazhestvo aka Белозерское княжество.

Same way the city which is located there is called Belozersk. City of/on the white lake more or less.

But the city was called Beloozero. And I'm sure the province is called after the city not after the lake... But I see. Belo Ozero is the lake and Beloozero the city.

 

[DanubianCossak]

But the city was called Beloozero. And I'm sure the province is called after the city not after the lake... But I see. Belo Ozero is the lake and Beloozero the city.

No, city is called Belozersk http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Белозерск or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belozersk . Its located on a lake Beloe - Beloe Ozero (white lake). The city's name is basically an adjective of a city thats on the lake / by the lake.

 

[Thure]

City was called Belozersk http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Белозерск or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belozersk . Its located on a lake Beloe - Beloe Ozero (white lake). The city's name is basically an adjective of a city thats on the lake / by the lake.

read the article... The city is called Belozersk NOW! But: "known as Beloozero (Белоо́зеро, lit. white lake) until 1777"

"Впервые он упоминается в «Повести временных лет» под 862 г. как город Белоозеро, располагавшийся в стороне от современного Белозерска, на северном берегу Белого озера, у деревни Киснема."

"Позже губерния была преобразована в Новгородское наместничество, и там тоже в 1776 году Белоозеро становится уездным городом, а в 1777 году получает современное название — Белозерск."

 

[Solmyr2000]

'Udskoye' in Siberia doesn't make sense at all. There was never anything named like that there.

Eh, not really.

And Beloozero is correct.

I think Russia is pretty good as it is, MUCH MUCH MUCH better than EU3's one.

 

[DanubianCossak]

read the article... The city is called Belozersk NOW! But: "known as Beloozero (Белоо́зеро, lit. white lake) until 1777"

"Впервые он упоминается в «Повести временных лет» под 862 г. как город Белоозеро, располагавшийся в стороне от современного Белозерска, на северном берегу Белого озера, у деревни Киснема."

"Позже губерния была преобразована в Новгородское наместничество, и там тоже в 1776 году Белоозеро становится уездным городом, а в 1777 году получает современное название — Белозерск."

Appears youre right. Didnt see that part.

Edit: so originally it was Beloozero (city), it was in independent principality till 1370. (edit2: Russian wiki states 1389.), when it joined Moscovy, and then it was attached to Novgorod (i assume under Russia?) region, when in 1777. it was changed to Belozersk? Is that it?

 

[BoleslavLev]

I don´t know anything about this and I can´t speak Russian, because in our modern democracy it is not recommended (ehm). But I have to say this conversation is fascinating to me. Philological problems concerning the right names of the Russian provinces, oh yeah. Really interesting.

 

[DanubianCossak]

I don´t know anything about this and I can´t speak Russian, because in our modern democracy it is not recommended (ehm). But I have to say this conversation is fascinating to me. Philological problems concerning the right names of the Russian provinces, oh yeah. Really interesting.

IMO it is useful, for modders and Paradox.

 

[BoleslavLev]

I didn´t mean to be ironic (I like that last smile, maybe that makes it sound ironic). I really mean it. This is really interesting. And it was great refreshment from all that lamenting about the technical side of the demo.

 

[unmerged(606777)]

Tvarish Dragovit, i assure you, in my mod Rodina will be perfect.

Moscovy starts in the middle of a civil war, AND being invaded by Kazan'.



Kholm => Staraya Rusa, AND you also get Toropets and Velikiye Luki

You are humanity's only hope for a better Russia, bratko (yeah, yeah, I know it's not the word I'm looking for, but in Russian it sounds about right)

Eh, not really.

Fair enough, that's the modern name of a tinsy-weensy village, that was initially established as "Udski ostrog" or "Udsk". Still naming the province "Uda" after the local river is miles better than leaving an obviously Slavic (and modern) toponym in 1444 in the highlands of Manchu.

And Beloozero is correct.

The cityname 'Белоозеро' did exist sometime before it was named Belozersk. It's present in many dictionaries as one of the possible references to the town. The thing is - by 99% of English speaking audience it would be read as 'Beluzero', because of the misleading double 'o'.

Do you often see such toponyms as "Тёменлес", "Высокагора", "Синеморе"? No, because that's just not how placenames are constructed in Russian language. So the construction "Белоозеро" is pretty unique and somewhat weird sounding. No wonder it was renamed to a more common pattern - "Belozersk".

By the way, the first ever mention of Belo Ozero in the chronicles:
"...И сѣде старѣйший в Ладозѣ Рюрикъ, а другий, Синеусъ на Бѣлѣ озерѣ, а третѣй Труворъ въ Изборьсцѣ..."

So, initially it was Belo Ozero. Besides in CK2 they already renamed it to Belo Ozero so why not being consistent ;P For the sake of the more phonetic transliteration.

I think Russia is pretty good as it is, MUCH MUCH MUCH better than EU3's one.

No contest about that. PDS is being lil' sweet boo this time <3

 

[DanubianCossak]

No contest about that. PDS is being lil' sweet boo this time <3

Yes, they truly are, <3 Paradox.

 

[unmerged(606777)]

Yes, they truly are, <3 Paradox.

The new provinces on the Balkans are welcomed. Lika, Varazdin, Travunia are all ossim. And they reverted to using Slavonia for the area. I remember them having some different name for it awhile back. But wtf is 'Monastir'?

And btw, why is Bosnia stronk in 1492?

 

[DanubianCossak]

The new provinces on the Balkans are welcomed. Lika, Varazdin, Travunia are all ossim. And they reverted to using Slavonia for the area. I remember them having some different name for it awhile back. But wtf is 'Monastir'?

And btw, why is Bosnia stronk in 1492?

Hmmm i think they ran into a kind of problematic situation with Today's Macedonia (FYROM for my Greek friends, put the knives down). Basically you cant do the Macedonia's culture without making a new revolter tag, and that would be heavily ahistoric, and making it either Bulgarian or Serbian would make either one revolt and probably start Third Balkans War, so they just went with the oldest solution: pick a Turkish vilayet (administrative unit) and turn the area you dont know what to do with into that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monastir_Province,_Ottoman_Empire

Now since im the bestest Serbian nationalist (obviously) im not constrained with those issues, so ima make the thing into Ohrid and Skopje and go with 100% Serbian cultures (take that Bulgarians) just cause i can.

As for Bosnia, after Kosovo the thing actually became quite powerful, warring Hungary (grabbing land even, or something like that IIRC), puing Serbia, and in general butt kicking, until The Turk came and beat the crap out of it Kebab style some time after the game start. It should be dead after 1463.

 

[unmerged(606777)]

Basically you cant do the Macedonia's culture without making a new revolter tag, and that would be heavily ahistoric, and making it either Bulgarian or Serbian would make either one revolt and probably start Third Balkans War...

Oh. Okay.

Now since im the bestest Serbian nationalist (obviously) im not constrained with those issues, so ima make the thing into Ohrid and Skopje and go with 100% Serbian cultures (take that Bulgarians) just cause i can.

Absolute powah corrupts absolutely.

 

[Calahir]

5. The province of Kholm south of Novgorod doesn't make sense either. There was never anything important about this little village. Rename it to Toropets or Velikiye Luki.

Since Kholm sounds similar to my hometown, I'd keep it

Although the map of Russia looks quite nice, I think that there is a space to cut some Siberian and White See provinces down and increase the amount of European territories.

 

[unmerged(606777)]

Although the map of Russia looks quite nice, I think that there is a space to cut some Siberian and White See provinces down and increase the amount of European territories.

Absolutely. The amount of provinces in Chukotka is too damn high. They better add Rostov and some more provinces in Western Siberia.

 

[BoleslavLev]

Agree with that. It´s fine Siberia have more provinces, but more west it is, more provinces it should have, not the other way around.