Generalmotors

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Hello.
I play Romania and in 1943 I am depleted of manpower and Russia is still playing and they have approximately 300 divisions.
I have conquered a lot of land, but as usually I lack (enough airforce and navy and) manpower when I need it most.
Can I avoid a war with Russia until I build an airforce, (that means 2 years I guess) by raising relations with them at 200, or is there something else?
I will post a map later, the strategic situation is too complicated to describe it. All the major players except France are still alive, fighting a few parallel wars, with the Axis powers generally losing but not yet.
I have 700IC and zero manpower, at the moment, and if I start the war with Russia now I probably lose, but after I build a decent CAS tact bomber airforce I probably will win. I am at war with the rest of the classic Western allies.
The issue is, can I delay the USSR declaring war on me, and how do I do that? Thank you!
 
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Pasha

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700IC? How did you do that? F12 money and then take the take the decisions that increase IC? Or did you mod a save file? If you're already "cheating" you might as well use the manpower cheat. F12 "manpower"

Also, are you in the Axis or simply at war with the Allies separately? If the latter, then I don't think Sovs will DoW you.
 

Generalmotors

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700IC? How did you do that? F12 money and then take the take the decisions that increase IC? Or did you mod a save file? If you're already "cheating" you might as well use the manpower cheat. F12 "manpower"

Also, are you in the Axis or simply at war with the Allies separately? If the latter, then I don't think Sovs will DoW you.

IC takeover.
IC takeover may be cheating, true, but is in the game menu, I did not add any cheat. I never do.
I tried the same game without IC takeover but it is very different. I doubt it is doable with Romania, I mean, the game trajectory I took is not doable without Industrial full takeover; I cannot beat Italy or France with my starting army. I tried to conquer as much as possible before 1939 and without entering the Axis.


Anyway, in this game, I am not in the Axis.

I will upload a map later. I am not near the computer now.

I fight alone, there is no Axis, I mean, not with Italy and Japan.
Germany's only allies are Finland and Sweden. Finland is already occupied by Russia and out of the game.

There is an alliance between USA, UK, France, et al.
All the wars are parallel. So far.
Japan is not allied to Germany, so Japan vs. US is parallel to US vs Germany.
Etc.

I do fight vs. US, UK, France and Australia et al, but not against Russia.

Russia does have a war against Germany who is allied with Sweden and Finland. Russia is winning.

Question.
If I join the Axis, can I withdraw later?
Thank you.

(Germany, even if is losing the war, still has 100 divisions that might help. Maybe.)

LE. A funny thing I noticed, I tried to help Nationalist China in their war with Japan by sending them free money, supplies, energy and metal and oil, but after a while they cancel the trade deal, even if it is actually a war subsidies, they do not give anything for what I send them. Why would this happen? This makes no sense at all. China is losing the war vs Japan.
 
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Pasha

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Question.
If I join the Axis, can I withdraw later?
It's weird and this is my experience in the TGC mod which is already a finicky mod to begin with, but what I've discovered was that I sign a separate peace with the leader of the opposing alliance first (you're going to have to use the F12 "acceptall" cheat though unless the Soviets are really getting crushed). The weird part is that sometimes you're automatically removed from the alliance as soon as you sign that peace, and sometimes you have to remove yourself from the alliance. The really weird thing is if you're not removed from the alliance, you're not at war, but still benefit from free blueprints, trades, nofog, etc. I just remove myself from the alliance so not to exploit that cheat.
 

Generalmotors

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It's weird and this is my experience in the TGC mod which is already a finicky mod to begin with, but what I've discovered was that I sign a separate peace with the leader of the opposing alliance first (you're going to have to use the F12 "acceptall" cheat though unless the Soviets are really getting crushed). The weird part is that sometimes you're automatically removed from the alliance as soon as you sign that peace, and sometimes you have to remove yourself from the alliance. The really weird thing is if you're not removed from the alliance, you're not at war, but still benefit from free blueprints, trades, nofog, etc. I just remove myself from the alliance so not to exploit that cheat.
no cheats. is there any way in the regular game, do you know?

as promised, the map from my current game, IC takeover, very easy, weakling, start date 1933.

Europe map



Africa map 1 (north)



Africa map 2 (south)



Middle East map



Asia map




romanian army synopsis

bank of america sat hours

romanian build list and economy

www arvestbank com

Yes, I conquered Poland. This is it now.

The occupied territory of Germany (by me) is because the English occupied it before and I was waging my war in India / Indochina and I did not see in time what is going on in Europe and I had to get rid of the red zone in Germany. I did not plan it. This creates many dilemmas at this moment.

I could.:
1. Invade China. Why? because Japan just lost its fleet somewhere in the Pacific fighting the US and the next step is Japan being invaded by the Americans, so I thought I could grab some manpower provinces before the Japan collapses. Or perhaps help Japan to resist the US. Which could delete the US from the European Theatre for the moment, I am being bombarded by some american planes in Netherlands,
2. Invade UK. In order to do this I should first conquer Sicily and Gibraltar. It is time consuming. It is what I should do.
3. Invade UK and US. I am buliding submarines at the moment and I could get lucky enough to transport some troops to America.
4. Ally Germany and try to repel the Russians.

The only question is, will the Russians declare war on me before I get some army?
It is january 1944.
 

Rohi

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Interesting development in your scenario. Romania is a minor country that has a lot of potential as demonstrated in this thread. As Pasha noted above, TGC is a mod worth trying, if you haven't already. Especially if one enjoys using Romania, since TGC has a 1914 start date and allows for plenty of time to buildup prior to WW2.

Regarding the manpower shortage: is there a reason why puppets have not been created?
Asking because some Darkest Hour Armchair Generals prefer to implement personal "house rules" that restrict what they can and cannot do in a given scenario, so maybe there is a deliberate reason why puppets have not been released in your campaign?

I tried the same game without IC takeover but it is very different. I doubt it is doable with Romania, I mean, the game trajectory I took is not doable without Industrial full takeover; I cannot beat Italy or France with my starting army. I tried to conquer as much as possible before 1939 and without entering the Axis.
You mentioned here about your preferred trajectory. Does this mean you have deliberately decided not to release puppets, like your own "house rules"? If so, then can understand the challenge with Romania in your campaign. It seems to be very challenging without puppets, even with full IC takeover!

LE. A funny thing I noticed, I tried to help Nationalist China in their war with Japan by sending them free money, supplies, energy and metal and oil, but after a while they cancel the trade deal, even if it is actually a war subsidies, they do not give anything for what I send them. Why would this happen? This makes no sense at all. China is losing the war vs Japan.
Interesting. Have also noticed the AI refuses trade gifts in certain campaigns. The reason here might be (do not know for sure) because a predetermined stockpile limit has been reached, therefore all of the supplies and other resources being sent are over the stockpile limit? Another possible reason here might be because they are not an ally. Although even if they were an ally, it's reasonable they will cancel a trade if they're over a predefined stockpile limit. So once again, a predefined stockpile limit seems to be a likely reason why the trades are cancelled.

Additionally:
  • Is the option "merge trades" activated in the misc.txt file?
    • If the "merge trades" option is deactivated, then multiple, single trade agreements can occur with the same trade partner;
    • Conversely, if the option is enabled, then the trade agreements are merged into one.
  • In your case, if the "merge trades" option is activated, then sending oil, supplies, energy, metal, and so on, will all be received as one trade agreement.
    • So then, if just one of those resources reaches a stockpile limit, it's likely the entire trade deal will be cancelled!
  • Unfortunately, there does not seem to be an option to disable the "merge trade agreement" feature from the economy screen, although right-clicking a trade in the economy screen will present the option to "merge trade agreements", there doesn't seem to be an option to disable them.
... Come to think of it, going to personally modify the misc.txt file to disable this feature.
In case anyone's wondering, here is the line in misc.txt file regarding "merge trade deals":
  • Line 1115 in misc.txt: *** [see bottom "Edit" comment]
    • "Merge trade deals"
    • 0 = do not merge
    • 1 = merge
      • Default is set to 1, "merge"
As a result of the above, when conducting multiple trades with a single country, each of those trades is pooled together into a single trade agreement, preventing the option to cancel only a particular single trade agreement. As a consequence of this default "merge trades" feature, trade agreements might be cancelled by the AI even when they arguably shouldn't be cancelled. The reason why they are cancelled, however, is likely because only one resource, in one trade, might have surpassed a stockpile limit.

In your case @Generalmotors, it's likely that if line 1115 in misc.txt is set to "0" instead of "1", you would be able to send Nationalist China individual trades for metal, energy, supplies, etc., and each trade would be cancelled individually, when the stockpile has been reached. However, since the default is set to "1", all of the trades are "merged", therefore if only one resource is over stockpile limit, then the entire agreement is cancelled!

Do not know for sure if the above explanation is correct, but it does seem reasonable.
Personally going to be adding another modification in misc.txt file to set "merge trades" to 0 instead of 1.

Finally:
The issue is, can I delay the USSR declaring war on me, and how do I do that? Thank you!
Do you still control the Bessarabia region?
If recalling correctly, there is an event that will have the USSR demand the region from Romania or else go to war. One of the triggers for the event is that Germany and the Soviets must have signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. Personally recall these event parameters from TGC mod, so not sure if the exact same event parameters exist in vanilla DH.

The point is whether or not Romania owns the Bessarabia region, because this region seems to be the trigger for war between the USSR and Romania.

-----

Looking at the romania.txt file now from Darkest Hour vanilla, and the first event is the "USSR Claims Bessarabia" event ID 2700:
  • There are two options here:
    • give the USSR the Bessarabia region; or,
    • go to war.
  • Notably, the event's trigger is event 2606 for the Soviets;
  • While browsing the USSR.txt event file in Darkest Hour vanilla, and looking at event 2606 from the file, it seems that the trigger for the "Claim Bessarabia" event for the USSR, is that "Eastern Poland" must have been given to the USSR.
  • If recalling correctly: the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is what gives Eastern Poland to the USSR.
So then, in response to your question about whether or not the USSR will declare war:
  • It seems to depend on whether or not the conditions for the "Claiming Bessarabia" event have occurred;
  • If the Eastern Poland was given to the Soviets during the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, then it's likely the USSR would have claimed Bessarabia during the year 1940;
  • Did you give the USSR the Bessarabia region if they claimed it (probably during the year 1940)?
    • If yes to the above, then it's unlikely they will be declaring war on you as long as relations are relatively high and belligerence is low.
-----

Curious to find out what happens here with your campaign:
  • Did you end up invading the UK?
  • Did the USSR attack?
  • Did you join an alliance with Germany?
  • If the USSR attacks you, and you have an alliance with Germany, are your 114 divisions and the ~100 GER divisions, enough to beat back the USSR's 300 divisions?
Had some additional thoughts to share here, however figured likely too late to share them. Anyways, this is another neat thread because the IC takeover option has been enabled for a minor, which has presented the challenge of fighting with lots of IC but low manpower.

Cheers!

*** Edit:
The reference to the line number "1115" from above will likely have to be disregarded considering it was taken from an edited misc.txt file. When personally editing files in DH, tend to write additional comments (as reminder notes concerning which lines have been edited) which add lines to the file. Therefore, to find the line in misc.txt simply do a search (CTRL+F) for the words "merge trade" and the appropriate line should appear on line 1092, but this line reference -- again -- might be incorrect.
 
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Generalmotors

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  • Did the USSR attack?

Thank you for the valuable informations.
Sorry for the late reply, I could not answer earlier.

I am very intrigued of this particular thing that you explained earlier (I will update an explanatory map later today). I quote:

"So then, in response to your question about whether or not the USSR will declare war:
  • It seems to depend on whether or not the conditions for the "Claiming Bessarabia" event have occurred;
  • If the Eastern Poland was given to the Soviets during the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, then it's likely the USSR would have claimed Bessarabia during the year 1940;
  • Did you give the USSR the Bessarabia region if they claimed it (probably during the year 1940)?
    • If yes to the above, then it's unlikely they will be declaring war on you as long as relations are relatively high and belligerence is low"
The Soviet Union did not attack in a couple of years, and at some point I had only 3 divisions guarding the Eruopean border and less that that guarding the Asian one, as I was attacking the US and I had to use everything I had for that.
Does the USSR AI only attack Romania in the situation where Romania owns Bessarabia and the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is consumed?
In my case, I annexed Poland before the pact even occured, and I do own Bessarabia, but the Russians never claimed it. However, my beligerence is not low, at all. It is very high. (My relations with Russia are approximately +80)

You said, I quote, "it's unlikely they will be declaring war on you as long as relations are relatively high and belligerence is low." How unlikely? What factors other than Bessarabia count here? Thank you.

Regards.

LE. I did occupy both Germany and UK. UK was not that hard, I severely underestimated my own naval strength. Submarines fare very well against surface fleets, I found out. I had to occupy Germany because the whole of their army ( approximately 100 divisions) was encircled in Northern Sweden and I could not rescue them as I did not have enough transport fleet at that moment, to carry all my army in time there.
The powers still alive are USSR, China and Japan. I will attack Russia from the Caucassus ( because the border is shorter there) and letting them advance all over the front in Europe, then cutting the Red Army from the south. Is probably the only way.

LE. I do not play with puppets, I never did, don't know why.
 
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