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Russia & Steppe Cultures

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Re: Re: Russia & Steppe Cultures

Originally posted by doktarr
In the EEP, there's Manchu, Mongol, Turkoman, Altai, Caucasian, and Turkish.
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Actually, the EEP also has uzbek and khazak but they are handed out via events.

Originally posted by doktarr
Youve explained explicity where Tartar/Cuman would be, but what about Turkish and Uighir?
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I'd assume that Uighur would be in the 'Uighuristan' area, so the easternmost provinces of the Chagatai Horde along the border with China.

Originally posted by doktarr
or the record, I prefer the name Tartar to Cuman. They have roughly the same historical meaning, and the name Tartar is far more meaningful to most people. The term "Cuman" may have been in use more frequently during the period, but I don't think that's all that relevant.
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Agreed.:cool:
 
I'm going to have to go with "That's not really the same sort of case at all" statement at this point...:eek:

Although, tartar wasn't used as a nice term, its a term that many current day sources use as the name of the culture. I doubt you can find the same for the word you chose especially considering that African Americans were more the target of that, then Africans. And clearly, the offensiveness of Tartar can't really exist today if we have a 'Tatarstan' and a whole group of people called Tartars.
 
Well at least go with 'Tatar' over 'Tartar' as Tartar was a european invention to link them to Tartarus.

Tartar and Tatar only makes sense from a European perspective though, as everyone else called them Cumans, including themselves, the Russians, the Byzantines, and the Turks.

The Mongols called them Tatars because that's what they called everyone west of themselves who 'lived in felt huts'. The Russians called them Tatars because they hated being called that. :p
 
It's not very good if we're using the culture across the Steppe as well as Russia though, and we have to, because it is the same culture. There is no mention of the Tatars after Russia drive them from their Steppe territories, only the Cumanian nations of the Uzbeks and Kazakhs.
 
Aren't you the one who said Cuman = Tartar? ;)

Besides, Tartars were still around in Sibir and have continued to be around the area to this day. So Tartar would cover similar to what you outlined for Kipchak in your 'Revolutionary Russian Proposal' except that bit in the corridor north of Sibir and that it'd get replaced (eventually) in the south-eastern bits by Uzbek and Kazakh, which although were initially the same, changed as they expanded south and lost ties with the Golden Horde.
 
I agree, almost all History books and games that I have played about History use the term Cuman for pre-14th century tribes that controlled that area, and Tartar or Tatar for after the Mongol Invasions occurred.

Late,
Jester
 
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