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TingJonKi

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they can basically steamroll any country in the area way too easily when historically they couldnt even beat poland-Lithuania alone, and atm they can beat sweden to a pulp and carpet seige finland or lithuania with huge stacks and their manpower shrugs it off before it even acquires the plentiful manpower of Belorussian, Ukraine, or crimea provinces


the worst part is they keep up in tech and actually can surpass western nations so good luck beating their 2x stacks unless you are a superpower yourself


Id rather fight France/Austria than Russia anyday


The National ideas of russia is the main culpret imho
 

unmerged(816141)

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they can basically steamroll any country in the area way too easily when historically they couldnt even beat poland-Lithuania alone, and atm they can beat sweden to a pulp and carpet seige finland or lithuania with huge stacks and their manpower shrugs it off before it even acquires the plentiful manpower of Belorussian, Ukraine, or crimea provinces


the worst part is they keep up in tech and actually can surpass western nations so good luck beating their 2x stacks unless you are a superpower yourself


Id rather fight France/Austria than Russia anyday


The National ideas of russia is the main culpret imho

Nerf? This is not a first person shooter.
 

hauptman

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Thier troops are of a very poor quality. I soundly defeat Russian troops with 1/4 the numbers as Prussia. They dont need a nerf, the other AI's need to be smarter.
 

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It's Siberia what needs a nerf, those lands shouldn't provide any tax/production/manpower/trade value like the amount they do now.

Was my first thought. There should be no province with more then one base tax. Production should be reduced as well. If i remember correctly Siberia was not properly exploited until the industrial revolution and the construction of the trans Siberian rail way. Prior to that most of Siberia was restricted by weather. Water ways froze in the winter, and roads where often in very poor shape.

Russia should not be having one of the highest trade incomes in the game from Siberia.
 
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AdmRepublic

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Every province is equal in terms of production, just except the very small base tax modifier to goods produced (+1% per base tax); so it's not possible to lower production per province unless you introduce a permanent province effect.
 

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Was my first thought. There should be no province with more then one base tax. Production should have be reduced as well. If i remember correctly Siberia was not properly exploited untill the industrial revolution and the construction of the trans Siberian rail way. Prior to that most of Siberia was restricted by weather. Water ways froze in the winter, and roads where often in very poor shape.

Russia should not be having one of the highest trade incomes in the game from Siberia.

That´s na interesting point and to be honest not that difficult to balance. Just slightly buff coastal provinces and nerf the others, either by rebalancing buildings or simply by increasing the coastal trade bonus. Large scale trade was indeed done by ships and anything very landlocked wouldn´t trade much.

And perhaps provinces with rivers could have a trade bônus, as well, but much smaller than coastal ones.
 

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The problem with Russia is that the Steppe Hordes stop being a threat after 1500, essentially turning all of Steppe Horde Asia into a free snack for Russia (or any Western power) to grow much bigger easily, then after they finish eating the Steppe Hordes whom are actually quite rich they have free access to China and India whom also do poorly against Russian deathstacks. Infact its downright unenjoyable to play as any Asian country other than Ming or Japan because sooner or later your going to have Russian deathstacks knocking at your doorstep.

Siberia is a minor factor as most of your Siberian income will be Production and Trade as opposed to taxes, and nerfing the basetax on Siberia is not going to do anything other than slightly shrink the size of those deathstacks, and theres not much difference between 400K troops and 380K troops.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...s-4-Empire&p=16532177&viewfull=1#post16532177
 

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If a player gets beaten by an AI Russia, then... well, the player has badly messed up. The problem with AI Russia vs other AIs is the same as it has been since day one - the AI is utterly dreadful to the point of worthlessness against Russia as it randomly sieges deep Russian provinces (try it, acquire Siberia and declare war on the Ottomans, it's almost a given that the Ottomans will march an army into Siberia as it has a weaker fort than the Russian forts, thus they prioritise it) I had thought this was fixed but after I accidentally became Russia whilst working on my Three Mountains save (....Accidental inheritance of the entirety of Russia ftw?) I noticed that the AI still throws troops into Siberia where they just bleed their entire manpower pool in a few months of winter.
 

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If a player gets beaten by an AI Russia, then... well, the player has badly messed up. The problem with AI Russia vs other AIs is the same as it has been since day one - the AI is utterly dreadful to the point of worthlessness against Russia as it randomly sieges deep Russian provinces (try it, acquire Siberia and declare war on the Ottomans, it's almost a given that the Ottomans will march an army into Siberia as it has a weaker fort than the Russian forts, thus they prioritise it) I had thought this was fixed but after I accidentally became Russia whilst working on my Three Mountains save (....Accidental inheritance of the entirety of Russia ftw?) I noticed that the AI still throws troops into Siberia where they just bleed their entire manpower pool in a few months of winter.

Its very easy to lose against Russia if your playing an asian country, due to a combination of factors. First is that Russia has an obscene amount of troops due to their huge territory and NIs allowing them to field a massive zerg. Second is that Eastern tech group is really really good, the infantry is only slightly inferior to Western even at tech 30 and their cavalry is superior to western until tech 28, so even a westernized asian country will have a lot of difficult simply because the Russians can win through sheer attrition, since they get the obscene +50% forcelimit and +125% Manpower bonuses.

Only Ming, Japan, and Daimyos stand any chance at all (becuase they have decent NIs), and even then westernization is a requirement in order to stand a chance in hell because Chinese tech troops are terrible.

This quote very accurately describes Russia in most games.

Russia. Scared. You mean the same nation that in every single game starts at Pskov and ends at Korea? That nation who alone have more troops than second and third combined? That same nation that can carpet siege Lithuania entirely and still march 150k troops into central Europe and show them who is the boss? Only time Russia doesn't turn into a megahugeblob in my games is when i personally transport troops from the other side of the world to end their expansion and that is not an option if you start your game as East Frisia.
 
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TingJonKi

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Thier troops are of a very poor quality. I soundly defeat Russian troops with 1/4 the numbers as Prussia. They dont need a nerf, the other AI's need to be smarter.
and as Sweden I got my troops handed to me because I was 2 tech levels behind due to a crap ruler and they were able to feild a stupdily large ammount of troops, they were the same tech level as Austria too. fighting a horde of tech superior troops =/= fun nor historical


bare in mind this was 1550 where russia wasnt supposed to have SUPER DOOPER MANPOWER and even in the russo-swedish war in 1788 sweden had the same ammount of troops and yet they cant even acheive this before russia hits china

also eastern tech units dont have poor quality until really late game and even then theyre good, this isnt EU3 though and you cant have disipline maulus even though russia arguably should with those NI's
 

aragonFTW

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Russia just turns into what it became in the 1850s a little earlier. A sweden player that doesn't prioritise defence and mutual protection against the Muscovites deserves to lose their kingdom.
Frankly in my current Sweden game the Russians are a pushover, never mind any time the Ottomans get Crimea rather than Russia.
 

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Its very easy to lose against Russia if your playing an asian country, due to a combination of factors. First is that Russia has an obscene amount of troops due to their huge territory and NIs allowing them to field a massive zerg. Second is that Eastern tech group is really really good, the infantry is only slightly inferior to Western even at tech 30 and their cavalry is superior to western until tech 28, so even a westernized asian country will have a lot of difficult simply because the Russians can win through sheer attrition, since they get the obscene +50% forcelimit and +125% Manpower bonuses.

Only Ming, Japan, and Daimyos stand any chance at all (becuase they have decent NIs), and even then westernization is a requirement in order to stand a chance in hell because Chinese tech troops are terrible.

This quote very accurately describes Russia in most games.

The thing is that still draws to the same problem; Muscovy can expand obscenely quickly because the neighbouring AI are totally hopeless against Russia. It is not that Russia is inherently powerful (because they're extremely easy to defeat or diplo-vassalise as any European power, possibly excluding Lithuania due to the tendency for the two to become rivals) it's because Russia (like France, really) is prone to being fed 'free' land by incompetent AI losing wars that they either shouldn't have started or shouldn't have lost (or both). In the rare event a coalition is started against Muscovy it's nearly inevitably a few of their steppe neighbours who then mass their armies and march them into Siberia to die, giving Muscovy more land.

I might add, I haven't once seen them expand into Europe and only once have I seen them attempt to do so (which... was against my Poland which ruled the northern half of the HRE and France, which rather ended badly for Russia.) which may also be part of the problem; because they never annoy the big European powers they never really end up fighting a major power (except the Ottomans, who as I pointed out seem to think Siberia is a primary target for invading Russia)

EDIT: Oh yeah and of course Lucky rather breaks everything just like it does with the Ottomans, keeping them equal to or ahead of non-lucky European nations resulting in far superior troops than they should have
 

TingJonKi

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The thing is that still draws to the same problem; Muscovy can expand obscenely quickly because the neighbouring AI are totally hopeless against Russia. It is not that Russia is inherently powerful (because they're extremely easy to defeat or diplo-vassalise as any European power, possibly excluding Lithuania due to the tendency for the two to become rivals) it's because Russia (like France, really) is prone to being fed 'free' land by incompetent AI losing wars that they either shouldn't have started or shouldn't have lost (or both). In the rare event a coalition is started against Muscovy it's nearly inevitably a few of their steppe neighbours who then mass their armies and march them into Siberia to die, giving Muscovy more land.

I might add, I haven't once seen them expand into Europe and only once have I seen them attempt to do so (which... was against my Poland which ruled the northern half of the HRE and France, which rather ended badly for Russia.) which may also be part of the problem; because they never annoy the big European powers they never really end up fighting a major power (except the Ottomans, who as I pointed out seem to think Siberia is a primary target for invading Russia)

EDIT: Oh yeah and of course Lucky rather breaks everything just like it does with the Ottomans, keeping them equal to or ahead of non-lucky European nations resulting in far superior troops than they should have

Ottomans are the same thing ive noticed but arnt as bad as the russians because ottomans were atleast that strong at the time period, and they don't get their OP ideas that russia gets

Though you are correct they dont expand into europe most games but when they do they can easily beat almost every power way too early

Russia just turns into what it became in the 1850s a little earlier. A sweden player that doesn't prioritise defence and mutual protection against the Muscovites deserves to lose their kingdom.
Frankly in my current Sweden game the Russians are a pushover, never mind any time the Ottomans get Crimea rather than Russia.

ive actually beaten them twice and practically every other european power early in my game, not my fault I cant handle amazing 1550 russian HRE-Tech manpower at my doorsteps
 

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and as Sweden I got my troops handed to me because I was 2 tech levels behind due to a crap ruler and they were able to feild a stupdily large ammount of troops, they were the same tech level as Austria too. fighting a horde of tech superior troops =/= fun nor historical

2 tech levels behind?

TWO?

Seriously man... there are issues in the game but you being spanked in that case was Learn To Play issue, really. Staying behind in tech is a BIG no no, if your ruler sucked and you wanted to go to war, just cut army budget and hire a skill 2 advisor. Your bout of bad luck and bad choices caused your failure, NOT Russia.
 

TingJonKi

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0 military skill ruler for 50 years will make you fall behind in tech buddy

+2 military adviser would be nice if I wasnt having a large mercenary army and loans due to the ammount of wars ive been fighting + peasant war


also I didn't attack I was attacked
 

Matteroflight

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0 military skill ruler for 50 years will make you fall behind in tech buddy

+2 military adviser would be nice if I wasnt having a large mercenary army and loans due to the ammount of wars ive been fighting + peasant war


also I didn't attack I was attacked

While I'm certainly not going to say it's your skill thats at fault, I do have to say that the peasants war is usually self-generated (you failed by holding your country together in I believe >25% manpower and a few other requirements).
But yeah, I feel your pain. I always turn lucky nations off because of it not making any sense...
 

Beagá

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That does´nt invalidate anything I´ve said. If you had no allies, no Money, no army, you were "overextended".

Peasant´s War only happen in VERY specific conditions.

So as I´ve said, you did bad choices. It´s nothing to be ashamed of, EVERYONE did mistakes while learning the game, including me, but instantly jumping on the fórum to say "This and that is broken nerf plox" is wrong.
 

Novacat

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The thing is that still draws to the same problem; Muscovy can expand obscenely quickly because the neighbouring AI are totally hopeless against Russia. It is not that Russia is inherently powerful (because they're extremely easy to defeat or diplo-vassalise as any European power, possibly excluding Lithuania due to the tendency for the two to become rivals) it's because Russia (like France, really) is prone to being fed 'free' land by incompetent AI losing wars that they either shouldn't have started or shouldn't have lost (or both). In the rare event a coalition is started against Muscovy it's nearly inevitably a few of their steppe neighbours who then mass their armies and march them into Siberia to die, giving Muscovy more land.

In 1444 there are no 'deep' Russian provinces, so blaming AI's handling of Siberia is just plain wrong.

I might add, I haven't once seen them expand into Europe and only once have I seen them attempt to do so (which... was against my Poland which ruled the northern half of the HRE and France, which rather ended badly for Russia.) which may also be part of the problem; because they never annoy the big European powers they never really end up fighting a major power (except the Ottomans, who as I pointed out seem to think Siberia is a primary target for invading Russia)

Russia never fights Europe because the AI prefers to expand through the path of least resistance, which, in this case, are the Steppes and then the Chinese/Indians. Given, I as a player do the same thing, expanding through Asia is much easier than expanding through the Commonwealth which is likely to incur the wrath of European luckies whom can put up serious resistance. In my last Sweden game I simply annexed Kazan (a 3 province minor Steppe Horde) and that put the Ottomans and British (!?) in a Coalition vs me, which the British then promptly DOWed me using the Coalition CB. Luckily 166% Discipline swedish deathstacks made mincemeat of the Ottomans and the British were only able to dispatch a 30K expeditionary force.

EDIT: Oh yeah and of course Lucky rather breaks everything just like it does with the Ottomans, keeping them equal to or ahead of non-lucky European nations resulting in far superior troops than they should have

The Ottomans are fine. Most of the time they dont even reach their historical borders. Now, if the Ottomans were, on a regular basis, expanding into India then I would see cause for complaint but I never even seen them make it to Persia, as they prefer to expand in Egypt and North Africa.

Russia just turns into what it became in the 1850s a little earlier. A sweden player that doesn't prioritise defence and mutual protection against the Muscovites deserves to lose their kingdom.
Frankly in my current Sweden game the Russians are a pushover, never mind any time the Ottomans get Crimea rather than Russia.

Your Sweden though, you are even more OP than the Russians are, and you are in a position to knock the Russians down early and replace them before they could expand into Siberia.

Asian countries do not have that luxury, dealing with the Russian bear is far more difficult for them.
 
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