Russia annexing Kazan entirely in one war

[Magean]

So... I was allied with Russia and joined their Crusade against Kazan. The year was 1730 or so. Qara Qoyunlu and the Ottomans joined Kazan.

Russia steamrolled Kazan and occupied all of its provinces. Then, it did the same to QQ and made a separate peace with them, demanding a good load of provinces. After that, it started to trash the OE. The warscore was about 60%. Suddenly, it soared to 100%. I immediately paused and hovered my mouse over it in the war screen, because I was curious to see what had given Russia that much warscore. All information I got was "Total Victory", without any mention of battles or occupied provinces.

A few days later, Russia annexed Kazan entirely. And Kazan was rather big, at least considering their number of provinces (though maybe not in total base tax).

What was that ? What happened ?

Thanks in advance

 

[yerm]

For the first 5 years of a war, your warscore is factoring in the allies. After 5 years, if someone is 100% occupied, you can FINALLY full annex. Before 5 years, you must occupy everyone in the war to do so.

 

[Castrolol]

Provinces with high local autonomy cost much less warscore. Even countries as large as Ming can be annexed in one war if their autonomy is through the roof.

 

[Xiahou Mao]

When you declare war against a country, for the first five years of the war your overall warscore is based on the strength of the entire enemy alliance, rather than just the enemy warleader (Kazan in this case). After five years, though, then the overall warscore is based on the strength of the warleader alone. In your case, the five years had passed, because of the full occupation of Kazan Russia had 100% warscore, and thus they were able to annex it fully. If Kazan was still a horde, they had minimum autonomy in their provinces which would make them easier to annex, along with Russia likely by that point having extra administrative efficiency to help them annex more territory in one go.

Before the 1.8 patch, you could get 100% warscore against a target immediately in the war if you occupied all their land, no matter how strong their allies were. This change keeps you from declaring war on an OPM ally of France with a CB like Holy War that keeps the warleader from changing, occupying the OPM to get 100% warscore, and then being able to exact concessions from France as a result without actually having to do battle with them. Now to be able to do that you need to survive for five years against France's armies.

 

[AurochsAway]

Hordes have a 25% LA floor. That makes their provinces cheaper.

 

[Magean]

Thanks guys

So, these two changes explain it. Good to know.

 

[Mikalos]

How on earth was kazan around that long in your game?

ive never seen it survive 10 years because a resurgent golden horde either attacks it or crimea, and nogai levels it in its kazan-nogai war

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Don't forget about admin efficiency.

The combination of LA, admin efficiency (which starts and caps earlier now, you're at 50% at ADM 22 already), access to imperialism at DIP 22, -20% cost on provinces from diplomatic ideas (if applicable) can allow impressive land grabs later in the game. Think along these lines:



Then becomes



Each nation was only 1 war. Japan was just BARELY doable in 1 war, with max admin efficiency + diplomatic + imperialism CB to full annex --> release. Persia was one war but done already here. RUSSIA was one war for me, although amusingly since I took Russia's troops down to literally 0 Crimea decided to hop in on that in a separate war and the results show above. Russia caused a good bit of OE (over 100% even at max efficiency) and it cost me more than 999 ADM to completely core what I took from them though.

By comparison, annexing Kazan with an LA floor in the 1700's is nothing surprising. Of course, unlike other things omitted in patch notes this all showed up in dev diaries + notes.

 

[-Malovane-]

Provinces with high local autonomy cost much less warscore. Even countries as large as Ming can be annexed in one war if their autonomy is through the roof.

Yes - this may have happened, since Kazan is usually too large to fully annex in a single war (at least in early game - late game it can be done if they've haven't expanded like crazy).

Something similar happened last night with me, while playing as Lithuania. I was on my second war with the Ottomans, after breaking them up a bit the first round (made them release a few countries and surrounded Constantinople). Something was odd, though - they were only fielding 15-20k troops at any given time, and at no maintenance. Checking in the peace deal, I could get each province for 1-2 warscore apiece. Checking further, I found I could vassalize them for around 40 warscore - which was quite astonishing, as they were still quite a large empire. Turned out that every province they had, except their capital (which had been moved), was at 100% local autonomy.

Anyone have an idea what could cause local autonomy on all provinces to skyrocket to 100%?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Some rebel types raise la when enforcing.

 

[finkellll]

OP's scenario isn't possible because Muscovy needs a huge buff in 1.8

/sarcasm

 

[yerm]

Moscovy is just way ahead of time. Much like France functions effectively a couple centuries ahead, so does Russia; they lose the invasion of Afghanistan just a few centuries too soon is all.

 

[oblio-]

Don't forget about admin efficiency.

The combination of LA, admin efficiency (which starts and caps earlier now, you're at 50% at ADM 22 already), access to imperialism at DIP 22, -20% cost on provinces from diplomatic ideas (if applicable) can allow impressive land grabs later in the game.

Really? They stealth-changed the levels required for administrative efficiency? I haven't been paying attention in-game.

 

[-Malovane-]

Some rebel types raise la when enforcing.

Hmm, true - and they did go through the massive rebel disturbance that comes from +20 War Exhaustion. But 100% LA is fairly extreme.

The only thing I can think of is that they moved their capital a few times (I had surrounded Constantinople). Given that I had removed the land bridge to Africa by releasing Syria, and they had moved their capital there briefly, then back to Karaman - would they get a 75% LA due to "distant overseas" penalty on all their provinces? If so, that sucks for Ottomans, being on the border of 3 continents.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Really? They stealth-changed the levels required for administrative efficiency? I haven't been paying attention in-game.

I didn't notice instantly, but it didn't take me long. I noticed I didn't get a boost at ADM 23 (the old starting point) which is when I looked for it, and had attributed the low cost provinces to a combination of diplomatic + imperialism CB. But then I realized the imperialism CB got nerfed (still quite good, but not old-patch ADM 29 good IIRC) and the provinces I was able to take per OE seemed wonky.

All of the thresholds were moved up. 26 is max 75% ADM efficiency now IIRC. I like the change, but it's annoying to find the change by surprise considering that this is the kind of game rule one plans around.

Hmm, true - and they did go through the massive rebel disturbance that comes from +20 War Exhaustion. But 100% LA is fairly extreme.

20 per enforce. Keep in mind if you knock their provinces into "distant overseas" status they floor at 75% also.

 

[oblio-]

I didn't notice instantly, but it didn't take me long. I noticed I didn't get a boost at ADM 23 (the old starting point) which is when I looked for it, and had attributed the low cost provinces to a combination of diplomatic + imperialism CB. But then I realized the imperialism CB got nerfed (still quite good, but not old-patch ADM 29 good IIRC) and the provinces I was able to take per OE seemed wonky.

All of the thresholds were moved up. 26 is max 75% ADM efficiency now IIRC. I like the change, but it's annoying to find the change by surprise considering that this is the kind of game rule one plans around.

I have no idea why they'd not promote this more. It's the kind of thing players love

 

[Magean]

I have no idea why they'd not promote this more. It's the kind of thing players love

That's weird indeed.

Quick question : with -75% from admin efficiency and -20% from diplomatic ideas, we're already at -95% province cost. Assuming LA is above 5%, what happens ? Is the cost capped at 1% warscore ?