Russia and the Ottomans historical rivals

[Compieuter]

On the EU4 subreddit there was a discussion about an alliance between Russia, France and the Ottomans. For an Ethiopia player this would make the game very difficult and some suggested that Muscovy/Russia and the Ottomans should have a historical rival modifier to prevent this unholy alliance. But there was some criticism on this because historically Russia/Muscovy and the Ottomans only became came into conflict in the late 16th century and it heated up in the 18th century. So giving Muscovy and the Ottomans a historical rival modifier in 1444 would be ahistorical and inpractical because the Ottomans can't even see all of Muscovy at the start of the game. But I suggested a solution for this 'problem': the historical rival modifier will only come into effect when Muscovy (or another russian nation for that matter) forms Russia (or Ruthenia). The AI ussualy takes at least 100 years to do this so this would prevent the historical rival position between the Ottomans and a nation that is far away and maybe even be invisible to them. This will make it more 'historical' and it would better balance the overpowered position of the Ottoman empire. Furthermore the changing of the historical rival modifier isn't unprecedented as Sweden and Denmark become historical rivals after an event and if I recal corectly Portugal and Spain can also lose it by event.

Link to the reddit thread: https://redd.it/5ms264

TLDR: Forming Russia should set the nation as a historical rival to the Ottomans.

 

[Matihood1]

But then some people playing Muscovy/Novgorod would never form Russia. Instead, I suggest an event that would happen somewhere in the 16th century which would give Russia (or Muscovy if Russia doesn't exist) a historical rival modifier with Ottomans.

 

[Compieuter]

But then some people playing Muscovy/Novgorod would never form Russia. Instead, I suggest an event that would happen somewhere in the 16th century which would give Russia (or Muscovy if Russia doesn't exist) a historical rival modifier with Ottomans.

Forming Russia still has a lot of benefits. You get free claims on the Russia, Crimea and Ural regions right away and later on you have an event were you get free claims on all of the Ruthenia region. So in my opinion this is much better than a possibly friendly Ottoman empire but just giving it by event would also be a solution.

 

[Mirochi]

In my opinion, it can be happened like this: when either of Russian nations have border with Ottomans or vassal/march of Ottomans, that Russian will become "historical rival" of Ottomans

 

[Canute VII]

Things would flow naturally from the following suggestion, as province religion gets converted sunni-orthodox and vice versa:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/non-territorial-agressive-expansion.993388/

 

[Rygel8472]

Forming Russia still has a lot of benefits. You get free claims on the Russia, Crimea and Ural regions right away and later on you have an event were you get free claims on all of the Ruthenia region. So in my opinion this is much better than a possibly friendly Ottoman empire but just giving it by event would also be a solution.

I wouldn't really call these strong benefits. Because if you haven't expanded over all that land before admin tech 10 then you are going REALLY slowly.

 

[durbal]

Historical rivals modifiers are dumb.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Historical rivals aim for the total anhilition of each other. I fear all games would end up with either the ottomans in Russia or Russia in Anatolia if we did this.
I am not at all sure the game would benefit from it

 

[JustMormegil]

Historical rivals aim for the total anhilition of each other. I fear all games would end up with either the ottomans in Russia or Russia in Anatolia if we did this.
I am not at all sure the game would benefit from it

Lets be honest - historical rival modifier exists to railroad behaviour of AI where there are not enough reasons for conflict (for AI) based on game mechanics. Or to manipulate liberty desire in case of Sweden.

What is the reason to conflict between Russia and Ottomans in EU4 till the time there is no other rivals available? They border in Crimea only and there isn't so much trade or development level there. Instead, there is PLC as most obvious common rival to fight and split.

Please don't add historical modifiers in game any more. Instead, give us additional points of competition/cooperation to substantiate rivals and allies peeks.

 

[Me_]

Historical rivals aim for the total anhilition of each other. I fear all games would end up with either the ottomans in Russia or Russia in Anatolia if we did this.
I am not at all sure the game would benefit from it

That does not seem to work. In my current game the only war ever between historical friends was when Austria and France were allies of opposite sides of a war between Milan and Hungary (I don't remember if FRA and ENG are rivals, but if so there were also two short wars in the early gamne between them, but the first one was event-caused and once the British were out of the Mainland, neither side cared any more).

Ottomans seems to have no interest in doing anything against Austria, for example, except allying France and never calling it or being called by it into any war.