Rushing Doctrines?

[Wulf145]

From what I have been able to glean from WWW game play the Doctrines are not penalised by Years, see Germany researching "Modern Blitzkrieg" in 1940.

Is this intended or is there any restriction on Doctrine research with regard to XP ? I just think it is unrealistic, even for a game, to need XP in order to build Variants of Hardware, yet be able to come up Military Doctrines having little or no 'feedback' on how those Doctrines which have been implemented actually work in the field. Changes or improvements of Tactics and Doctrines are caused by either meeting new challenges or the effective counter of those already used.

I would welcome it if one restricts the research of Doctrines in some way, such as a function of Millitary XP in that given field.

e.g.: You need to have gained x Amount of Naval experience in order to research the Wolfpack doctrine without heavy penalties.
The System should track the total amount of Naval experience gained in a separate object as to the one displayed on screen so as not to penalise the expenditure of XP for Variants or Division Building.

 

[sfmess]

I'm actually surprised that they didn't go this route. It seems counter-intuitive that doctrines would be the exclusive purview of the research tree, and that military experience points aren't tied to them in any way.

 

[GsusNSV]

Wolfpack is a rather bad example, as Dönitz already operated with a similar doctrine in the Mediterranean Sea in the last months of WWI. Germany experimented with this as early, as the first boats were ready.
Problem was the number of submarines available at the start. So it took until '40, before there were enough subs to operate in packs. (And having ports in France helped too.)

So to say all doctrines across-the-boards need XP to be researched is, IMHO, a bit troublesome. That would leed to more NF with heavy bonuses for the specific doctrines(for things countrys were experimenting or inventing in the timeframe), which in return would probably restrict the chances of a player to choose another doctrine tree, then intended by Paradox.

Of course I understand that doctrines rushing is a concern for HoI4. So maybe I am just playing the devil's advocate here.

Something I also found when I checked WWW1 right now, the time to research a doctrine for Germany is given as:
Time to research: 240 days (-20%)
So the normal research time is what? a Year? At least something rather big.
The reason Germany and GB are so much ahead, would be thanks to NF bonuses.

 

[Septawn]

I brought this up a couple weeks ago. Someone had a similar idea to you and there was a fair amount of discussion about it.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/doctrinal-troubles.902896/

 

[Vidkjaer]

Doctrines only increase organisation, defense or breakthough for the army plus some other things. this only allows them to fight for a longer time, but not an increased ability to destroy the opponent which would require better weapons stats through weapons tech.

I havent looked closely through the air and naval tech, but i think something similar is there to. Naval doctrines increase your spotting ability, ability to coordinate etc. but not increase your hull point, attack or anything else weapons related.

Though you could rush through doctrines tech as the WWW players do. For the Polish or French campaign it would actually be better (IMO) to invest in weapons technology to destroy them quicker all though some army doctrine techs increases your breakthrough stat and minimizes your losses on the battlefield. But that is a production and soldier experience issue.

 

[Wulf145]

Wolfpack is a rather bad example, as Dönitz already operated with a similar doctrine in the Mediterranean Sea in the last months of WWI. Germany experimented with this as early, as the first boats were ready.
Problem was the number of submarines available at the start. So it took until '40, before there were enough subs to operate in packs. (And having ports in France helped too.)

So to say all doctrines across-the-boards need XP to be researched is, IMHO, a bit troublesome. That would leed to more NF with heavy bonuses for the specific doctrines(for things countrys were experimenting or inventing in the timeframe), which in return would probably restrict the chances of a player to choose another doctrine tree, then intended by Paradox.

Of course I understand that doctrines rushing is a concern for HoI4. So maybe I am just playing the devil's advocate here.

Something I also found when I checked WWW1 right now, the time to research a doctrine for Germany is given as:
Time to research: 240 days (-20%)
So the normal research time is what? a Year? At least something rather big.
The reason Germany and GB are so much ahead, would be thanks to NF bonuses.

Using XP is not perfect, but better (IMO) than set years. I just think that there needs to be some check on Doctrine rushing since even with very long research times (240 Days) it is possible to research the majority of a doctrine tree by 1940.

 

[LordOfWar16]

There is nothing wrong with him researching modern blitzkrieg in 1940 if he rushes those doctrines, since that way he might be weaker in other areas. Other than that the most powerfull benefits would be the tactis of course, but those dont give you any advantage, if your leaders wont be able to effectively use them at the right time. Its basicly the theoretical groundwork, while your generals need to develop the practical tactics. Unexperienced generals simply wont be able to use the right tactic at the right time. Besides that you can and probably will switch to a different branch later on if things dont go the way you intended.