Rurik the Troublemaker 867- stay Norse and Asatru, or convert to something else?

Rurik the Troublemaker 867- stay Norse and Asatru, or convert to something else?

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eastcoastceojam

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Trying my first run as Jarl Rurik the Trouble in 867. Norse culture and the Asatru religion are powerful, but Rurik starts with few like-minded friends nearby. Should he stay true to his upbringing, or convert to local customs to save the frustration of trying to flip vassals, counties, and his own first-born son?

My ultimate goal is to form the Empire of Russia for the achievement, but I wanted to take my time and unify my subjects along the way. I'm just wondering if trying to convert counties to Norse culture and Asatru religion is a fool's errand. I'm also wondering what happens to Norse counties and rulers in Russia once 950 hits and Swedish, Danish, and Norwegian cultures appear. Can Rurik's descendants and his realm remain Norse?

Russia's de jure territory includes 2 Slavic holy sites (with a 3rd one close by in Plock), and Rurik has enough Russian counties in his realm to become the Russian culture head. There is also the Vepsian culture that is self-contained inside the Russian Empire, and they have the nice Metsänvartija archer men-at-arms innovation at game start.
 

Kliwarrior

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If you convert ( both culture and religion) you can vassalize a lot .
But for RPG reason you may stay Asatru/Norse
 
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I had to restart a couple of times. I finally got the achievement with norse and pagan. Wasnt that hard, you just need a bit of luck in the first two generations.
 
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Fraqster

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You can convert to Slavic paganism when you're done getting enough land from Asatru casus bellies. Then Novgorod can get a Hall of Heroes. And easy vassalation from all Russian culture groups.
 
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DorostheConquer

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If you stay Norse you keep Longships, which is super useful anywhere but especially Russia. You also get Huscarls, who are one of the better MaA types. And if you stay Asatru, you can Holy War a lot - in fact, you can Holy war basically anyone you want, since it's all heathens to the south and east of you. Just be sure to reform the religion eventually!

When the culture shift hits, Scandinavia will flip but you will stay Norse. There's likely to be Norse provinces in Britain by that time, but if you've culture converted your own territory then it's not hard to become Culture Head in 950.

East Slavic Druzhina's are also pretty good, like a slightly less versatile Huscarl. Personally I prefer the Vepsian Mensvarks to Druzhinas (and the Vepsian culture to Russian), but objectively speaking Mensvarks are the less powerful of the two - the only real advantage is that you get Mensvarks earlier than Droogies, so if you just wanna power through the achievement in a couple generations then the early game benefits will be attractive to you. (you can always take your time and unify your subjects AFTER you've become Emperor)
 
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If you stay Norse you keep Longships, which is super useful anywhere but especially Russia. You also get Huscarls, who are one of the better MaA types. And if you stay Asatru, you can Holy War a lot - in fact, you can Holy war basically anyone you want, since it's all heathens to the south and east of you. Just be sure to reform the religion eventually!

When the culture shift hits, Scandinavia will flip but you will stay Norse. There's likely to be Norse provinces in Britain by that time, but if you've culture converted your own territory then it's not hard to become Culture Head in 950.

East Slavic Druzhina's are also pretty good, like a slightly less versatile Huscarl. Personally I prefer the Vepsian Mensvarks to Druzhinas (and the Vepsian culture to Russian), but objectively speaking Mensvarks are the less powerful of the two - the only real advantage is that you get Mensvarks earlier than Droogies, so if you just wanna power through the achievement in a couple generations then the early game benefits will be attractive to you. (you can always take your time and unify your subjects AFTER you've become Emperor)
You need to reform to holy war, and norse outside Denmark and Norway went Swedish by default on release and I saw no message about it changing
Trying my first run as Jarl Rurik the Trouble in 867. Norse culture and the Asatru religion are powerful, but Rurik starts with few like-minded friends nearby. Should he stay true to his upbringing, or convert to local customs to save the frustration of trying to flip vassals, counties, and his own first-born son?

My ultimate goal is to form the Empire of Russia for the achievement, but I wanted to take my time and unify my subjects along the way. I'm just wondering if trying to convert counties to Norse culture and Asatru religion is a fool's errand. I'm also wondering what happens to Norse counties and rulers in Russia once 950 hits and Swedish, Danish, and Norwegian cultures appear. Can Rurik's descendants and his realm remain Norse?

Russia's de jure territory includes 2 Slavic holy sites (with a 3rd one close by in Plock), and Rurik has enough Russian counties in his realm to become the Russian culture head. There is also the Vepsian culture that is self-contained inside the Russian Empire, and they have the nice Metsänvartija archer men-at-arms innovation at game start.
Stay norse norse, helps you marry ragnarsons and you lose longships innovation so then can't raid overseas if you flip from norse culture
 
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DorostheConquer

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You need to reform to holy war, and norse outside Denmark and Norway went Swedish by default on release and I saw no message about it changing

I did say to reform the religion, didn't I? Pretty sure I did, but who knows?

However, since you bring it up, you don't technically have to reform to get religious CBs with Asatru. Asatru is a Warmonger faith, which means free Duchy and County level Conquest CBs anyways. None of the other pagan faiths in Rurik's area have that tenet (best in the game IMO), which is yet another reason to stick with the true gods.

Also, de jure Sweden goes Swedish. De jure Denmark goes Danish, de jure Norway (which includes Lazytown and the Faroes) goes Norwegian, and I believe de jure Scandinavia may default to Swedish, although I'm not certain. Everything outside of those stays Norse. Here's an example from my "Avenge the Battle of Tours" run.


2021_01_14_1.png
 
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Battlex

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I did say to reform the religion, didn't I? Pretty sure I did, but who knows?

However, since you bring it up, you don't technically have to reform to get religious CBs with Asatru. Asatru is a Warmonger faith, which means free Duchy and County level Conquest CBs anyways. None of the other pagan faiths in Rurik's area have that tenet (best in the game IMO), which is yet another reason to stick with the true gods.

Also, de jure Sweden goes Swedish. De jure Denmark goes Danish, de jure Norway (which includes Lazytown and the Faroes) goes Norwegian, and I believe de jure Scandinavia may default to Swedish, although I'm not certain. Everything outside of those stays Norse. Here's an example from my "Avenge the Battle of Tours" run.


View attachment 670052
You said it at the end of the paragraph to reform. But that's real interesting, they kept it norse, perhaps a stealth change
 
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eastcoastceojam

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Thanks for all the great comments. I'm glad to see that staying Norse seems to be possible outside of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. And I appreciate the reminder on the Warmonger CBs. I hadn't realized that was specific to Asatru, not all Tribal governments.

I played a decade with Rurik as is, and the threat of popular uprisings is high with the mismatch between ruler and the counties he rules. I almost lost the first peasant rebellion, which happened in 5 counties at once. It instantly dropped me from 2,000 levies to less than 500. But thank Odin I still had my army raised from a war just wrapping up, so I was able to defeat the revolters.

Based on the feedback in this thread, I'm thinking I will try to stay Norse long term, and keep the Asatru faith until I'm able to form the Empire of Russia. Then I will convert to Slavic so I can practice a reformed faith, or if the AI reforms Asatru without my help, maybe I'll adopt that one.

Is it worthwhile to try and actively convert provinces to Norse culture? The in-game tool tips tell me that will take 3 years per county with my current steward. In CK2 provinces would convert automatically over time, given certain conditions. Does that still happen in CK3?
 

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Thanks for all the great comments. I'm glad to see that staying Norse seems to be possible outside of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. And I appreciate the reminder on the Warmonger CBs. I hadn't realized that was specific to Asatru, not all Tribal governments.

I played a decade with Rurik as is, and the threat of popular uprisings is high with the mismatch between ruler and the counties he rules. I almost lost the first peasant rebellion, which happened in 5 counties at once. It instantly dropped me from 2,000 levies to less than 500. But thank Odin I still had my army raised from a war just wrapping up, so I was able to defeat the revolters.
You should easily be able to defeat the peasant revolts, it takes awhile for them to converge their stacks and if all peasants lack men at arms or knights. You said your levies dropped tho, was this due to some of your vassals joining the peasant revolt?
Based on the feedback in this thread, I'm thinking I will try to stay Norse long term, and keep the Asatru faith until I'm able to form the Empire of Russia. Then I will convert to Slavic so I can practice a reformed faith, or if the AI reforms Asatru without my help, maybe I'll adopt that one.
You could go orthodox to more easily marry into byz, rather than reformed slavic
Is it worthwhile to try and actively convert provinces to Norse culture? The in-game tool tips tell me that will take 3 years per county with my current steward. In CK2 provinces would convert automatically over time, given certain conditions. Does that still happen in CK3?
converting provinces to norse then means they will matter to the average dev of norse for research purposes. converting them to norse culture also increase popular opinion so you'll get less peasant revolts as well as seperate peasant revolt factions. Dynamic culture conversion via event is not in from what I've seen, only via decisions, and then vassals adopting their lieges cultures and converting their own lands.
 
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Going for the same achievement as you I stayed Norse - the CBs on the other local religions were very powerful.
 
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CK3 has a strong component or Role Playing. If you just want the achievent, converting is the quickest way to get it (you may take it in the Rurik’s lifetime) but a true norse Empire definitely rulez, so play as you like most.
 
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CK3 has a strong component or Role Playing. If you just want the achievent, converting is the quickest way to get it (you may take it in the Rurik’s lifetime) but a true norse Empire definitely rulez, so play as you like most.
If khazaria implodes you can use your subjugate CB on them to get an empire title to keep it together in the meanwhile
 
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You should easily be able to defeat the peasant revolts, it takes awhile for them to converge their stacks and if all peasants lack men at arms or knights. You said your levies dropped tho, was this due to some of your vassals joining the peasant revolt?


None of my vassals joined the rebellion, but 5 different counties were in the peasant rebellion faction. So when the faction ultimatum fired, each county had a ~250 man rebel army spawn immediately. Since those tribes were "occupied", the game wouldn't let me raise or reinforce troops from those counties anymore.

I got lucky that I had previously raised all my levies, and had ~1,700 men sieging down the final enemy holding in a county conquest war. So I just finished that foreign war ASAP, then marched my armies back to my kingdom to take out the occupying rebels one by one. Not sure if I could have beat them if I hadn't already had my armies raised. I hope these rebellions will fire less once I get some of the counties converted to Norse culture.



If you stay Norse you keep Longships, which is super useful anywhere but especially Russia. You also get Huscarls, who are one of the better MaA types.


Also, I forgot to ask about this earlier. Since you can't use Huscarls until the "Hirds" Innovation is unlocked, what MAA type is recommended in the interim? I had been using generic Bowmen, but not sure if a different type makes more sense for fighting in Russia.
 

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None of my vassals joined the rebellion, but 5 different counties were in the peasant rebellion faction. So when the faction ultimatum fired, each county had a ~250 man rebel army spawn immediately. Since those tribes were "occupied", the game wouldn't let me raise or reinforce troops from those counties anymore.

I got lucky that I had previously raised all my levies, and had ~1,700 men sieging down the final enemy holding in a county conquest war. So I just finished that foreign war ASAP, then marched my armies back to my kingdom to take out the occupying rebels one by one. Not sure if I could have beat them if I hadn't already had my armies raised. I hope these rebellions will fire less once I get some of the counties converted to Norse culture.






Also, I forgot to ask about this earlier. Since you can't use Huscarls until the "Hirds" Innovation is unlocked, what MAA type is recommended in the interim? I had been using generic Bowmen, but not sure if a different type makes more sense for fighting in Russia.
Bowman is good for Russia because of the amount of forest. You can also get Cavalry for the plains battles
 
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If khazaria implodes you can use your subjugate CB on them to get an empire title to keep it together in the meanwhile

I made the mistake of adding Scandinavian Elective on Khazaria. Voting power is based on how well electors match culture and religion of the de jure counties. Luckily the claimant they elected only had 5 prowess against my heirs 38 so I got it back after a tribal challenge. :p


Converting your realm to Norse can be rather tedious and considering the really low development in Russia on average is it really worth it doing it yourself?
I do try to get as many norse courtiers as possible and mass educate all children in the realm at my court to become norse. Eventually my vassals will be norse and convert the counties themselves.

Of course I convert my capital and try to increase the development of it through either raiding or the councillor task.

Educating all future vassals also lets me set their focus. I really hate having high intrigue vassals that pick seduction.
 
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I made the mistake of adding Scandinavian Elective on Khazaria. Voting power is based on how well electors match culture and religion of the de jure counties. Luckily the claimant they elected only had 5 prowess against my heirs 38 so I got it back after a tribal challenge. :p


Converting your realm to Norse can be rather tedious and considering the really low development in Russia on average is it really worth it doing it yourself?
I do try to get as many norse courtiers as possible and mass educate all children in the realm at my court to become norse. Eventually my vassals will be norse and convert the counties themselves.

Of course I convert my capital and try to increase the development of it through either raiding or the councillor task.

Educating all future vassals also lets me set their focus. I really hate having high intrigue vassals that pick seduction.
Scandinavian elective is only family of ruler and claimants no? In mine the original khazar ruler died so had no one else with claims
 
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Scandinavian elective is only family of ruler and claimants no? In mine the original khazar ruler died so had no one else with claims
Yes, Scandinavian elective is actually really strong but in this case after the subjugation the old ruler and his 6 sons were still around. Most of them still children so my usual tactic of knight suicides was less effective.

Was more an anecdote to remind people to think before they slap Scandinavian elective on everything.

If playing a norse game in Scandinavia it can be prudent to subjugate Björn or Sigurd early before they have a chance to form Sweden or Norway so you won't have to deal with them having strong claims on the kingdom titles.

Ohh and a little detail that surprised me the first time with the adop special succession decision. 300 prestige to convert all current kingdom titles instead of 1500? Yes please. Wait your top title is Empire? Your kingdoms are back to full price of 1500 each. Not that it matters, at that point I'm usually swimming in more prestige than I can ever spend in the rulers lifetime.
 
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Yes, Scandinavian elective is actually really strong but in this case after the subjugation the old ruler and his 6 sons were still around. Most of them still children so my usual tactic of knight suicides was less effective.

Was more an anecdote to remind people to think before they slap Scandinavian elective on everything.

If playing a norse game in Scandinavia it can be prudent to subjugate Björn or Sigurd early before they have a chance to form Sweden or Norway so you won't have to deal with them having strong claims on the kingdom titles.

Ohh and a little detail that surprised me the first time with the adop special succession decision. 300 prestige to convert all current kingdom titles instead of 1500? Yes please. Wait your top title is Empire? Your kingdoms are back to full price of 1500 each. Not that it matters, at that point I'm usually swimming in more prestige than I can ever spend in the rulers lifetime.
Yeah I think being able to not get scandi for free on your other titles as an emperor is just rushed coding they'll fix sometime
 
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