I've been experimenting with the Byzantines from the 1187 start date (think that's right, it's the middle one at any rate). VH, DV with latest patch if it makes a difference. After two total anihilations (one due to the empire collapsing from within, the other from the same but accompanied by a mass dog pile involving the Sultanate of Rum, Kingdoms of Jerusalem, Bulgaria and, for some reason, Norway), I'm just wondering how feasible it is to make Byzantium work while keeping Royal Perogative and without retreating to my personal demense.
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It is never easy to use RP ... once you are a larger realm. Since it pisses off the vassals and will eventually create rebellious vassals that will give you Relam Duress.
I would say feasable, but unlikely to succeed.
How can I put this?
I am not skilled enough at CK to make RP really work in a realm the size of the Empire. Probably Denmark. Maybe Scotland, if I got lucky with my ruler's diplo stats. I've never even tried.
Always remember: as a CK ruler you are comparable to an alliance-head in HoI, not a blob. RP annoys vassals because it implies you are, in fact, the huge blob. And they are, in fact, merely regional governors.
Also remember when fighting wars it's almost always smartest to use vassal regiments. You don't have top pay them a dime, and if they get horribly mauled who cares? Fixing it is the vassal's problem.
For this reason my policy tends to be very, very pro-vassal. They get FC, and virtually no scutage (scutage reduces their regiment size). In exchange all they have to do is die for me. I think it's perfectly fair. And they're idiots so they agree.
Nick
I am not skilled enough at CK to make RP really work in a realm the size of the Empire. Probably Denmark. Maybe Scotland, if I got lucky with my ruler's diplo stats. I've never even tried.
Always remember: as a CK ruler you are comparable to an alliance-head in HoI, not a blob. RP annoys vassals because it implies you are, in fact, the huge blob. And they are, in fact, merely regional governors.
Also remember when fighting wars it's almost always smartest to use vassal regiments. You don't have top pay them a dime, and if they get horribly mauled who cares? Fixing it is the vassal's problem.
For this reason my policy tends to be very, very pro-vassal. They get FC, and virtually no scutage (scutage reduces their regiment size). In exchange all they have to do is die for me. I think it's perfectly fair. And they're idiots so they agree.
Nick
Are there actual advantages to Royal Prerogative versus Feudal Contract or Traditional Custom?
Depending on who you ask ... army composition mainly (in my opinion). Also gives you the widest room to maneuver in the financial screen.
You could check this thread I made about the difference in Ruling laws:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439469
Thanks for the responses, it's much appreciated.
I should probably have mentioned I was interested in using RP for role playing purposes rather than as an effective form of government (heh heh, RP for RP). I had initially been planning to try and iron man it, limiting my demense to the province of Byzantium itself- but that's a little too suicidal: even though it's the richest province in the game, it's far too easy to get the province looted and be left with a tiny army.
Thanks for the link Tempest, I was sure I'd seen something like that round here somewhere. I figured the +1 loyalty bonus for being part of the Byzantine empire would ofset the loyalty penalty for this form of government, but the events have been killing me. Previously I've played as Germany from the 1066 start date and never had these kind of problems, even when excommunicated. Does anyone know if the loyalty events tied to RP are done on a by vassal basis or on a by kingdom basis? (i.e. will consolidating my vassals, making archdukes with 3/4 duke titles, mean I get fewer rebellions, or will I be left with just as many rebellions only now with bigger and harder to stop vassals?)
Having said this, last night's attempt seems to be going ok, I've managed to keep the empire intact dispite repeated rebellions (except for the bit up in the Crimea, I've left them to their own devices after they peacefully broke away, it costs too much to get up there and the tribe of Cuman is looking a bit scary right now). I've been steadily replacing the dukes with family members which seems to have eased the number of rebellions somewhat. I've managed to vassalise Cyprus, Antioch and Armenia and get relations installed in the first two of these. I even managed to nab a couple of tasty provinces from Bulgaria when they tried to jump me in the middle of the civil war. The succession has gone off relatively peacefully (only 3 rebellions and the seemingly obligatory realm duress) and I may actually be in a position to expand (probably against the sultanate of Rum, although Bulgaria could be another option).
@ Nick B II
I tend to use exactly the same strategy as you. I do generally just use vassals armies to fight, primarily using mine just to defend against seiges and so powerful but happy vassals are definitely a very good way of running a kingdom. I thought Byzantium in the 1187 start might be small enough to cope with RP (they've lost a lot of ground since 1066), but it seems to be pushing it, especially if I want to expand.
I should probably have mentioned I was interested in using RP for role playing purposes rather than as an effective form of government (heh heh, RP for RP). I had initially been planning to try and iron man it, limiting my demense to the province of Byzantium itself- but that's a little too suicidal: even though it's the richest province in the game, it's far too easy to get the province looted and be left with a tiny army.
Thanks for the link Tempest, I was sure I'd seen something like that round here somewhere. I figured the +1 loyalty bonus for being part of the Byzantine empire would ofset the loyalty penalty for this form of government, but the events have been killing me. Previously I've played as Germany from the 1066 start date and never had these kind of problems, even when excommunicated. Does anyone know if the loyalty events tied to RP are done on a by vassal basis or on a by kingdom basis? (i.e. will consolidating my vassals, making archdukes with 3/4 duke titles, mean I get fewer rebellions, or will I be left with just as many rebellions only now with bigger and harder to stop vassals?)
Having said this, last night's attempt seems to be going ok, I've managed to keep the empire intact dispite repeated rebellions (except for the bit up in the Crimea, I've left them to their own devices after they peacefully broke away, it costs too much to get up there and the tribe of Cuman is looking a bit scary right now). I've been steadily replacing the dukes with family members which seems to have eased the number of rebellions somewhat. I've managed to vassalise Cyprus, Antioch and Armenia and get relations installed in the first two of these. I even managed to nab a couple of tasty provinces from Bulgaria when they tried to jump me in the middle of the civil war. The succession has gone off relatively peacefully (only 3 rebellions and the seemingly obligatory realm duress) and I may actually be in a position to expand (probably against the sultanate of Rum, although Bulgaria could be another option).
@ Nick B II
I tend to use exactly the same strategy as you. I do generally just use vassals armies to fight, primarily using mine just to defend against seiges and so powerful but happy vassals are definitely a very good way of running a kingdom. I thought Byzantium in the 1187 start might be small enough to cope with RP (they've lost a lot of ground since 1066), but it seems to be pushing it, especially if I want to expand.
Well, playing with RP means that you should be keeping almost all the land to yourself. Even your sons shouldn't get anything. At least that is the way I see it.
...but they are just regional governors. And they have been for a thousand years.
They disagree. And Those People have Swords. More swords than you.
Capiche?
Nick
Well, that's why I try to have at least half of the kingdom's total manpower in my demesne. Everyone else put together...only has as many swords as me! And then enact Feudal Contract anyways
I think just for the size of Byzantium, it is possible to use RP. But, due to the starting king and the distribution of its land under various vassals, it would be an uphill task. As it is, it is already tough enough to keep the vassals together and avoiding realm distress, so I can't say I would advise RP with BYZ.
To make it work and run somewhat smoothly under RP, I would like to wipe everything clean and have a fresh slate, ie setting all vassals and lands the way I wanted it. And, oh yes you would need a succession of capable rulers.
To make it work and run somewhat smoothly under RP, I would like to wipe everything clean and have a fresh slate, ie setting all vassals and lands the way I wanted it. And, oh yes you would need a succession of capable rulers.
you need good diplomacy and a super chancellor for it to work IMO.
one advantage of RP is that it helps a bit with culture changing. if you are a big culture changer it's a nice to have.
one advantage of RP is that it helps a bit with culture changing. if you are a big culture changer it's a nice to have.
RP works fine for a high stat Byz king who owns a mega demesne.
Since the Byz title gives you quite a larger demesne through the bonus, you can basically own all the land (most of it) yourself and just beat down your small one province vassals if they get uppity.
That said, you cannot do it at the start of the game (or any scenario for that matter) until you consolidate territories and get a ruler worth a hoot.
[edit]
Word of warning.
If you get a crappy ruler doing this then it all goes to heck if you find yourself with an inbred character with too large of a demesne.