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Martin_Mortyry

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It’s been repeated many times that Europa Universalis is not a sequel for Crusader Kings. It might not be, but it certainly is CK’s successor in terms of timeline. What’s really great in the first one and lacks in the latter is role-playability. Characters in Crusader Kings have their traits: some are duelists, some are greedy, some are imbeciles, some are zealous… you know the drill.
Currently there’s something similar to character’s traits – every ruler has a personality, yet there are two problems with this solution:
1) there are only 5 available personalities.
2) player controlled countries have rulers with “player” personality, cutting off the possibility of role-play.

Some of you probably wonder how are devs supposed to insert the trait mechanics? The best solution I see would be replacing, or rather enhancing already existing personality mechanics: based on a ruler’s attributes, ideas chosen for a country and maybe events popping out during their youth/regency the monarchs would get their trait.

Here’s some ideas I’ve come up with:

Three “basic” traits:
Administrator
Chance of administrative ruler rises if:
*a country is caught up with administrative tech
*a monarch’s administrative attribute is 4 or higher(the chance rises accordingly to administrative skill)
*other skills are lower than 4(though the chance doesn’t perish if a ruler is exceptional(6/6/6 or 5/5/5))
*a country has chosen administrative, innovative or economical idea group
*additionally to the former, finished plutocratic, aristocratic or quality ideas
*during his youth/regency, there was a master of mint, natural scientist or a treasurer chosen as an advisor

It is impossible to have administrative ruler if his diplomatic or military monarch points exceed administrative ones.
Chances of getting him are also very low if none of administrative ideas listed above were chosen.

Administrative trait would have following effects:
*-10% development cost
*penalties for developing marches, deserts and forests are removed until monarch’s death
*penalties for hills, mountains etc. are reduced.
*-15% building cost
*fort maintenance -5%
*monthly autonomy change -0,10
*stability cost modifier -10%
*advisor cost -15%

*a ruler is condemned to be an awful general
*loss of prestige due to lost provinces and paying war reparations/humiliation is doubled
* if ruler’s diplomatic or military attributes fall back by 1 to his administrative, the country will get respectively +5% diplomatic or military technology cost
*if ruler’s diplomatic or military attributes are equal to his administrative, the country will get respectively +10% diplomatic or military technology cost
*not developing provinces and building might result in negative events rising autonomy, revolt risk in provinces and whatnot, forcing a player to play active administrative game


Diplomat

Chance of diplomatic ruler rises if:
*a country is caught up with diplomatic tech
*a monarch’s diplomatic attribute is 4 or higher(the chance rises accordingly to diplomatic skill)
*other skills are lower than 4(though the chance doesn’t perish if a ruler is exceptional(6/6/6 or 5/5/5))
*a country chose diplomatic, influence or espionage idea group
*additionally to the former, finished plutocratic or aristocratic ideas
*during his youth/regency, there was a diplomat, spymaster or a statesman chosen as an advisor

It is impossible to have diplomatic ruler if his administrative or military monarch points exceed diplomatic ones.
Chances of getting him are also very low if none of diplomatic ideas listed above were chosen.

Diplomatic trait would have following effects:
*+1 diplomatic relation
*+2 diplomatic reputation
*unjustified demands -10%
*diplomatic annexation cost -20%
*+1 diplomat
*national unrest -1
*spy defence/offence +20% (chosen with event triggered by the start or monarch’s rule)
*regardless of the previous choice: time to fabricate a claim -20%

* if ruler’s administrative or military attributes fall back by 1 to his diplomatic, the country will get respectively +5% administrative or military technology cost
*if ruler’s administrative or military attributes are equal to his diplomatic, the country will get respectively +10% administrative or military technology cost
*if player is too aggressive and ignores his allies’ requests, negative events might happen, resulting in rising autonomy, revolt risk in provinces and whatnot, forcing a player to go with more diplomatic solutions
*Because of reasons above, diplomatic ruler might be forced to join his ally’s war, even if it’s not profitable… and could be disastrous


Militarist
Chance of militarist ruler rises if:
*a country is caught up with military tech
*a monarch’s military attribute is 4 or higher(the chance rises accordingly to diplomatic skill)
*other skills are lower than 4(though the chance doesn’t perish if a ruler is exceptional(6/6/6 or 5/5/5))
*a country has chosen one of military idea groups
*additionally to the former, finished administrative, maritime, influence or religious ideas
*during his youth/regency, one of the military advisors was chosen.
*the chance rises with country’s army tradition

It is impossible to have militarist ruler if his administrative or diplomatic monarch points exceed military ones.
It is also impossible to get this trait if country’s army tradition is below 10 and you haven’t chosen any military ideas.

Military trait would have following effects:
*yearly army tradition +0,5
*fort maintenance -25%
*land maintenance modifier -10%
*aggressive expansion impact -30%(pray for Brandenburg to never get a militarist!)
*core creation cost -10%
*the ruler is destined to be an incredible general, additionally his chance of dying during battle is lower than that of a regular general
*truce length -50%(if the truce is between 2 militarists the bonus doesn’t scale)

*national unrest +1 if not at war
*diplomatic reputation -1
*better relations over time -10%
*having your forts mothballed increases province’s unrest by 2
* if ruler’s administrative or diplomatic attributes fall back by 1 to his military, the country will get respectively +5% administrative or diplomatic technology cost
*if ruler’s administrative or diplomatic attributes are equal to his military, the country will get respectively +10% administrative or diplomatic technology cost
*being too peaceful might cause negative events causing stability or legitimacy loss, army tradition drain or, in the most unlucky cases, independence wars.

Three traits mentioned above can not be given to monarchs whose needed attribute is below 4.

Zealot

Chance of a ruler being a zealot rises if:
*a country unlocked at least one religious idea(rises even higher every few ideas unlocked)
*a country borders at least one heretic/heathen nation
*(in regency) country has theologian or inquisitor as an advisor
*a country is defender of the faith
*(for catholic) country is Curia Controller, (for orthodox) country has at least 75% Patriarch Authority, (for Muslims) previous ruler had piety of 100%

Chance of a zealous ruler falls if the country has humanist or innovative ideas.

Zealot trait would have following effects:
*tolerance of the True Faith +1
*missionary strength +2%

*tolerance of heretics -1 and heathens -2
*technology cost +5%

Nationalist
Chance of nationalist ruler rises if:
*a country has started aristocratic or defensive ideas, unlocked half of the influence ideas, or unlocked all of the religious ideas.
*a country has unreclaimed cores (rises even more if a country with the cores is in different culture group)
*a country borders a nation with different culture holding a province of its culture group(eg. Poland and TO holding Kulm in 1444)
*a country has a lot of unaccepted culture(s) – the more problematic they are, the bigger chance of a nationalist
*the year is after 1750(of course, nationalist monarch would be possible earlier, just with a bit smaller chance)

Chance of a nationalist ruler falls if a country consists of many accepted cultures or if the country unlocked at least half of humanist ideas(the more, the smaller chance of being ruled by a nationalist)

Nationalist trait would have following effects:
*tolerance of the True Faith +1
*Missionary strength +1%
*Culture conversion cost -30%
*monthly autonomy change -0,05

*unrest in provinces of not accepted culture +2
*accepted culture threshold +20%

Imbecile/Slow/Invalid

Requires:
*no monarch skill can be higher than 1
*if regency had happened, the “education for an heir” event didn’t fire

Chance of a slow ruler rises if:
*there was at least one imbecile of his dynasty on throne before
*the ruler’s attributes are at 0
*a country is severely backward in technology(from -20% technology cost due to backwardness)

Slow trait would have following effects:
*possible advisors +2
*yearly prestige -2
*yearly legitimacy -1
*revolt risk +3
*inevitable pretender revolts, either through events or rebel progress
*monthly autonomy change +0,10%
*reputation -2
*stability cost +15%

Trader

Requires:
*Chosen “Trade Ideas”
*ruler has at least diplomatic skill of 3

Chance of a trader rises:
*with every important centre of trade owned by a country
*with country’s mercantilism (from 15%)
*with every idea completed in the Trade Ideas
*if a country is merchant republic
*if a trader advisor was hired during ruler’s youth/regency
*if a country has good relations with merchant republic.
*if a country owns at least 50% trade share in at least one trade node

Trader trait would have following effects:
*trade power +20%
*caravan power +15%
*trade steering +25%
*merchants +1
*light ship cost -20%
*mercenary cost -15%
*mercenary maintenance -10%

*tax income -20%
*manpower -20%
*aggressive expansion impact +25%
*cost of reducing war exhaustion +25%
I know some of you might think they're not balanced or don't make sense, but this list was done mainly to present the idea behind my suggestion.

Traits would influence/be influenced by country’s relations and authority of each estate, but since we’re not 100% sure how will this feature work, I decided to leave them out of my ideas.
 
Last edited:

Sagif

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In terms of role-playing, it would add immensely!!!

I believe that it's not that big of a deal to implement something like that.
Of course, we are not talking about the depth of personality we have in CKII... But adding just small things like that, would add immensely to game dynamics.

With what has been suggested here, I can picture new events that are determined by the ruler's trait, new mechanics that just make having the right ruler, at the right time, a HUGE step forward towards success...

I usually only look at my monarch's points, nothing more. And I constantly use him and the heir as a general, regardless if they are good or bad (wait, I do not engage decisive battles with them if they are an absolute 0).
Having these traits would make me consider if having an administrator as a general is a good idea... Or if my ruler is a military person, maybe long peace and prosperity through trade are not the best near-future policies...

I really hope this idea does not die out...

You, Sir, have my undivided support!
 

Anatur

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This could have some effect on republics as well.

Since if you elected an administrative candidate for example he could be 50-50 either zealot or nationalist,or a diplomatic candidate could be 50-50 trader or diplomat,the millitary one could be 50-50 great for the army or a total moron(not that uncommon for people in history who base their sole achievements in the army to be incompetent bofoons,capable millitary people like napoleon and alexander had at least some administrative and diplomatic ability).
 

Martin_Mortyry

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Since if you elected an administrative candidate for example he could be 50-50 either zealot or nationalist,or a diplomatic candidate could be 50-50 trader or diplomat,the millitary one could be 50-50 great for the army or a total moron(not that uncommon for people in history who base their sole achievements in the army to be incompetent bofoons,capable millitary people like napoleon and alexander had at least some administrative and diplomatic ability).
I'd, of course expect some more traits if it was to be included in-game. For example, some more military traits would be nice.

By the way, thank you very much for the response. :)
 

Martin_Mortyry

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How ruler can be "nationalist" if nationalism is opus XIX century?
Well, technically you're right - the modern definition of nationalism had been developing through second half of XVIII century and was fully estabilished in XIX century, but people, at least those from higher parts of society, have always had a sense of nationality. You even get "nationalism" casus belli in mid-late game, so I find this name appropriate. I also mentioned that it is more likely after 1750 to get this trait, therefore I don't see your problem.
 
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Anatur

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I think it would be more nationalism along the lines of:

"All these ignorant people dont know true culture,we should make them follow our faith and speak our language to preserve their souls and show them what true life is."

While there might not be true nationalism there was plenty of room for favoring conformity,the whole ingame time period was marked by nations trying to standardise their population to something more uniform,easier to manage.
 

FurorGermanicus

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I like it, because traits make sense (crusader kings II and eu4 mods already have traits)
 

Martin_Mortyry

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Another two ideas that would need to be implemented if the suggestion was accepted:

Colonist
Requiers a country to have at least one colonist

chance rises:
*with every idea picked from expansion or exploration groups
*if completed Naval/Maritime/Trade ideas
*with each colonist owned by the country

Colonist trait would give following effects:
*colonist +1
*settler increase +10
*colonial range +25%
*light ship cost -10%
*heavy ship cost -10%
*global tariffs

*manpower -15%
*tolerance of heathens -3


Admiral (or something along these lines, not really sure how to call this trait)
Requiers:
*country has a port
*ruler's diplomatic skill higher than 3
*ruler's military skill higher than 2

chance rises:
*with every idea picked from Maritime/Naval Groups
*according to country's naval tradition
*according to amount of coastline provinces with docks/drydocks and shipyards/grand shipyards

Admiral trait would give following effects:

*yearly navy tradition +1
*morale of navies +10%
*heavy ship combat ability +10%
*galley combat ability +15%
*transport cost -20%
*navy/trade build cost -25%
*a ruler can be appointed as an admiral, he's destined to be exceptional leader of his navy...

*... he's also certain to die if his fleet is sunk... but that might actually be good if he's an awful ruler
*... and can't be used as a general
*yearly army tradition -0,25%
*fort maintenance +10%
*build cost for non-trade/navy buildings +20%
*army morale -5%
 

Anatur

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I think we should also have some "special" ones,to reflect the more extreme types of rulers but have them super rare(like once in 300 years or something).

How about:

Benevolent genius:
-10 revolt risk
+10 army morale
-10 discipline
+10% regiment cost
+10% stability cost
+10% ship cost
+10 naval morale
-10% tech reserch cost
+1 tolerance for heretics and heathens
-25% for accepted culture treshold
+25% to culture conversion cost

Malevolent genius:
+10 revolt risk
-10 army morale
+10 discipline
-10% regiment cost
-10% stability cost
-10% ship cost
-10 naval morale
+10% tech reserch cost
-1 tolerance for heretics and heathens
+25% to accepted culture threshold
-25% to culture conversion cost

The idea is to differentiate between benevolent smart rulers and merciless sociopaths.

The first knows how to get the best for his people and think long term but it comes at more cost.

The second one couldnt care less and wants immediate results no matter the long term damage he causes.

In short it is basically a scenario where either can go really good or really bad depending on the situation.

This is just a skeleton idea to get the general theme across.
 

BrokenSky

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Agree in principal, but I'd tone down the advantages/disadvantages.
Personally I'd make it so you get a randomly generated tier 1 or 2 positive trait. If you get tier 1, you then get a second positive trait. Finally you get a negative trait which doesn't conflict with the positive one(s). These would add small bonuses / maluses. Make it a smaller thing basically. You'd get to see the first trait on your heir, but the second, as well as the downside would be rolled later. Tier 2 are about twice as good as tier 1.

Trader would give +10% Trade efficiency and be tier 1, say. Administrator would be tier 2 and could give +5% tax, -5% development cost, -5% ADM tech cost. Innovator would be tier 2 and give -5% tech cost. Unpopular would give +1 national unrest and would be a negative. For example. The numbers might need to be balanced.
 

Martin_Mortyry

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Agree in principal, but I'd tone down the advantages/disadvantages.
Personally I'd make it so you get a randomly generated tier 1 or 2 positive trait. If you get tier 1, you then get a second positive trait. Finally you get a negative trait which doesn't conflict with the positive one(s). These would add small bonuses / maluses. Make it a smaller thing basically. You'd get to see the first trait on your heir, but the second, as well as the downside would be rolled later. Tier 2 are about twice as good as tier 1.

Trader would give +10% Trade efficiency and be tier 1, say. Administrator would be tier 2 and could give +5% tax, -5% development cost, -5% ADM tech cost. Innovator would be tier 2 and give -5% tech cost. Unpopular would give +1 national unrest and would be a negative. For example. The numbers might need to be balanced.
It's up to Paradox if and how would they want this implemented - personally, I'd like the traits to have huge impact on country and the way it's being ruled - maybe even slightly forcing the player to role play, as suggested in my diplomat trait.
 

Sharp163

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I much prefer the rulers we have now. If I wanted to play Crusader Kings, I would play Crusader Kings... Sorry, but I must disagree with you
 

Martin_Mortyry

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  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
I much prefer the rulers we have now. If I wanted to play Crusader Kings, I would play Crusader Kings... Sorry, but I must disagree with you
I don't want to change Europa Universalis into Crusader Kings 2.0, no - CK war and alliance systems are awful. I'd just like this game to be more than conquering massive lands to create epic blobs - with trait mechanics the game would gain a lot more flavour, players who would like to base their decisions on ruler's personality would be able to do so, the others could play as they normally do, with additional bonuses/penalties, making their game more interesting.
 
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Reactions: BrokenSky