Ruler pool should be separated from other leaders

[Archael90]

I have to say. Only thing why im playing imperial or dictatorial is that election means i have to higher another leader and asign him to vacant place, and sometines after that i need to start special projects again.
Why rulers cant be chosen from separated pool? This would reduce some micro, and fixed once and for all, bug in which ruler that did not get re elected just dissapear.

 

[Bezborg]

The whole leader system is ridiculous. The way we hire them, the randomness of the traits, the low variety of traits, the barely any way of getting new traits for anyone that isn't in a science ship, the zero interaction and events we get in relation to leaders, the fact that they are just a slot-filler and an anchor for some simple percentage-based buff...

How this system avoided an overhaul for this many years is truly a level 10 anomaly.

 

[Zagreb 887]

They are some (lazy) attemps to make leaders something more than a % on output, like the scientist escaping to a primitive world where you have an observation post. I guess that high crime worlds have a chance to give the corrupted trait to governors ( not sure of this one).

I really agree that leaders should have more life given to them, like having an ethic based in their traits and role, being member of a faction based on said ethic. We can imagine some kind of happiness/loyalty system for them, whic can have impact on their stats, and why not, the chance to be bribed or defect to another empire, via some espionnage opération.

 

[Bezborg]

They are some (lazy) attemps to make leaders something more than a % on output, like the scientist escaping to a primitive world where you have an observation post. I guess that high crime worlds have a chance to give the corrupted trait to governors ( not sure of this one).

I really agree that leaders should have more life given to them, like having an ethic based in their traits and role, being member of a faction based on said ethic. We can imagine some kind of happiness/loyalty system for them, whic can have impact on their stats, and why not, the chance to be bribed or defect to another empire, via some espionnage opération.

Tbh every planet should have some sort of leader associated with them, whether it's influenced by the player or not. But I dream of complex politics.

 

[Quinzal]

I like to imagine there's an ever growing unemployment line at some administrative office in every empire, full of people who went to academy hoping to become Generals, only to find out that their great Primus, Squib Quib XIV or whatever has never hired a single one in his entire immortal reign.

 

[Tuna Cat]

The whole leader system is ridiculous. The way we hire them, the randomness of the traits, the low variety of traits, the barely any way of getting new traits for anyone that isn't in a science ship, the zero interaction and events we get in relation to leaders, the fact that they are just a slot-filler and an anchor for some simple percentage-based buff...

How this system avoided an overhaul for this many years is truly a level 10 anomaly.

Most of the internal systems are dead at this point
Sectors
Politics
Species/Ethics
Leaders
Pop classes

Are all MAJOR staples of Paradox games and similiar style games, but have basically no real depth or are just entirely negligible/worthless.

The entire game is has been focused on external management since the old pop overhaul. The game needs a MAJOR internal overhaul, probably two, one focusing on leaders, sectors and Planets, and another focusing on Politics, Species/ethics and Pop classes.

 

[grisamentum]

The way Leaders should work is a pool of leaders based on faction support with enhancements from civics, buildings, etc. Instead we have this completely RNG nonsense system and yeah, it's pretty much the minimum viable product for a game where someone said there should be leaders.

Also figure in that the Leader system is mostly unchanged for Gestalts, and it's pretty clear this system needs a complete rework.

I'm not going to bother writing out a whole Suggestion post in the other subforum for this, but leaders should come from factions and have a varying chance to appear based on faction approval and civics/traits, with some guaranteed leaders coming from certain buildings and starbase modules.

We also need a more serious leader advancement system with more agency, and the role of leaders in research and combat needs to be reworked, if only to simplify the current "buy/fire leaders until I hit Maniacal scientist."

 

[Tuna Cat]

This might be controversial, but I think the game should take some inspiration from imperator when it comes to how it deals with leaders and factions.

 

[TSBasilisk]

Maybe have a political leader generated for every X pops in the empire. They can be recruited as Governors, at which point they require upkeep; firing them returns them to the pool. Elections include everyone from this pool, Governors, and other leader types depending on civics and ethics - Technocracies for instance being able to elect Scientists.

 

[Harkinian's Dinner]

There's no need for yet another huge overhaul that will break the game for months/years on end. The leader system just needs some incremental improvements.

• We need to be able to see both their regular traits and ruler traits at the same time. Needing to go into the leader menu every time there's an election to make sure we don't make our best scientist a ruler is a chore.
• We need to be able to see what our Scientists are actually doing from the leader menu. "Commanding X science ship" is not enough when it doesn't show whether that science ship is researching a vital anomaly or sitting idle doing nothing.
• We need Envoys to be real leaders, as they have more to do than all the real leaders now except Scientists, and they even gain traits from events that don't do anything. Might want to combine them with Governors into Political Leaders.
• We need to be able to ban a leader from becoming ruler - in a cheaper way than spending all our Influence on an election - so we don't suddenly lose a vital asset.
• Obviously, more leader events and traits would be cool. Especially more positive traits. Getting Arrested Development or Substance Abuser for the 10th time in a single game isn't fun.

 

[Tamwin5]

Most of the internal systems are dead at this point
Sectors
Politics
Species/Ethics
Leaders
Pop classes

Are all MAJOR staples of Paradox games and similiar style games, but have basically no real depth or are just entirely negligible/worthless.

The entire game is has been focused on external management since the old pop overhaul. The game needs a MAJOR internal overhaul, probably two, one focusing on leaders, sectors and Planets, and another focusing on Politics, Species/ethics and Pop classes.

Honestly, was it focused at all on internal management even before the old pop overhaul? Because I don't remember it being that way in the slightest. It's more that every other aspect of the game got overhauled/updated/improved, and internal politics is last on that list. Next update after the Aquatic pack almost certainly, so soon(tm).

 

[Zoomy]

This might be controversial, but I think the game should take some inspiration from imperator when it comes to how it deals with leaders and factions.

Please elaborate for the benefit of those that don't have I:R.

 

[Tuna Cat]

Honestly, was it focused at all on internal management even before the old pop overhaul? Because I don't remember it being that way in the slightest. It's more that every other aspect of the game got overhauled/updated/improved, and internal politics is last on that list. Next update after the Aquatic pack almost certainly, so soon(tm).

To a degree it was, back in the old times, Stellaris was a fair bit more bare bones, so the internal factions, sector management, ethics and the species your empire had were some of the more granular interesting features. But since then, it's the external systems that have received overhaul after overhaul, addition and addition. To the point where those internal features have fallen to the side greatly.

Please elaborate for the benefit of those that don't have I:R.

Pretty much this
In imperator you have your goverment, Like stellaris
Your goverment has factions, Like stellaris
This is where it immediately differs, the factions have an active role in your goverment, your pool of leaders, come from families, which all belong to a faction.
If your leader does well in something, his family gains prestige, thus his faction gains prestige

What I'd essentially propose for stellaris is
All Nations have 'factions' they already do really, based upon the existing ethics that pops have in your nation (So the Pacifists, and the Egalatarians to give an example)
These factions are from where all your leaders come from, every leader, governor, president, etc will have a faction, and there perks and agendas will be influenced by their faction
The better a leader does, the more this increases their factions prestige. The more pops will adopt their ethics.

Say you have a Militarist faction leader, he might have really awesome stats, but belong to a 'minor' (Say one/two pop) ethics faction, he goes off and destroys the enemy in a military war, because you chose him for his stats, and he did well, this could have the knock on effect of suddenly 10 militarist pops now, on his home planet or something, and maybe he's gained a shitload of prestige in general, so come next election, he's the first choice, he gets in, and has an agenda to build a bunch of defences, he kicks us, and so by the time he's out of office you end up with a 25 percent Militarist population. Idunno, I'm just spitballing at this point, but there's a dozen of other ways they could make the system interesting, doesn't have to be this.

 

[Tamwin5]

To a degree it was, back in the old times, Stellaris was a fair bit more bare bones, so the internal factions, sector management, ethics and the species your empire had were some of the more granular interesting features. But since then, it's the external systems that have received overhaul after overhaul, addition and addition. To the point where those internal features have fallen to the side greatly.

Pretty much this
In imperator you have your goverment, Like stellaris
Your goverment has factions, Like stellaris
This is where it immediately differs, the factions have an active role in your goverment, your pool of leaders, come from families, which all belong to a faction.
If your leader does well in something, his family gains prestige, thus his faction gains prestige

What I'd essentially propose for stellaris is
All Nations have 'factions' they already do really, based upon the existing ethics that pops have in your nation (So the Pacifists, and the Egalatarians to give an example)
These factions are from where all your leaders come from, every leader, governor, president, etc will have a faction, and there perks and agendas will be influenced by their faction
The better a leader does, the more this increases their factions prestige. The more pops will adopt their ethics.

Say you have a Militarist faction leader, he might have really awesome stats, but belong to a 'minor' (Say one/two pop) ethics faction, he goes off and destroys the enemy in a military war, because you chose him for his stats, and he did well, this could have the knock on effect of suddenly 10 militarist pops now, on his home planet or something, and maybe he's gained a shitload of prestige in general, so come next election, he's the first choice, he gets in, and has an agenda to build a bunch of defences, he kicks us, and so by the time he's out of office you end up with a 25 percent Militarist population. Idunno, I'm just spitballing at this point, but there's a dozen of other ways they could make the system interesting, doesn't have to be this.

Personally, I think factions should be diverged from ethics. Sure a particular faction might champion an ethic, but the ethic isn't the be-all and end-all of the faction. That way you could have factions based on certain planets or sectors, or factions arguing for different relations with specific other empires (as opposed to just militarist want war, pacifist want peace). If you are interested in a full post about my ideas for internal politics, I've got a full framework here. I do think that individual leaders should have ethics though, slightly separate from their faction (a militarist leader wouldn't join a pacifist faction). Maybe two points of ethics, as a mid point between the one point pops and the three point government?