Rule #1: Never fight a land war in Africa

[manager12390]

I'm not going to say that I know everything about this game (I just picked it up two weeks ago and have become madly addicted to it) but up until now I thought I could come up with a plan no matter what the situation. Playing my first game as one of the big countries, Italy, I knew from the start that I could never match the Royal Navy. That was why I was planning from day one to take the bottlenecks of the Med, Gibraltar and Suez, and lock His Majesty out of my sea. Gibraltar was easy, as I had gotten Nat Spain to join the Axis and I just took military control and overwhelmed the British garrison. Suez was a lot harder, but I managed to blitz and pocket the British defenders in Egypt and capture Alexandria. Once I reached Port Said, I waited patiently until I was sure that the three main fleets of the Royal Navy were out, and took Suez to make sure they stayed out. After a bit of fighting in southern Egypt and the Middle East, I left five divisions each in As-Suwayz and Fayum and transported the rest of my army -including the armor that had been so crucial in Egypt- to fight in Yugoslavia (Germany had just DOWd)

Once Yug was finished, I had a massive army sitting in Albania, the Regia Marina ready to pound the shore of Ioannina, and Marine divisions sitting in Taranto ready to make amphibious landings and cut off North Greece from its supply. All of a sudden I see a message saying that England defeated me in As-Suwayz, and I scrolled down to see a 15-division multinational Allied army along with two armored units coming straight at me. At that point I just sighed, saved the game, and exited.

So here is my question. I know that the worst thing imaginable for Italy is to get stuck in an land war in Africa - but what else can I do? There's no way I'm giving up control of Suez, and if I liberate Egypt I know that the British will just swarm it. Obviously I'm not going to put forty divisions in those two southern provinces, and then what if they trek through the desert and come up in southern Libya? What do you all recommend? Should I start fighting an African war, with my goal to push the British out for good? Should I just put a huge defense force in the two bottleneck provinces? I guess that after the quick invasion and annexation of Greece I could fight the British for Africa - other than some divisions to send to Germany for Barbarossa and a nice defense force for the peninsula, I don't really have anything else to do. I was hoping to annex Turkey, but I reckon that I can do that pretty quickly as well. I need the advice of HoI veterans. Do I go for Africa, and if I do how far in should I be aiming to go? Or should I just hold northern Egypt and forget about everything else?

 

[unmerged(89590)]

Well if it was me i would put coast defenses the meditrean coast to defend against invaison from there and put up a large defense in the areas u want to keep. Northern Eygpt. I would secure a few provinces around the areas of importance and use them as the main area of defense. And it would not be very wise to go that deep into Africa. i invaded there and it took months for me to move one province to the south. In the end i took over all of Africa but the time it took to do so was a waste of manpower,money,supplies and everything that it takes to run a effecint war. so an invastion of Africa is one of the last things i would do. Only if u absalutly have to. it is also very unlikely that the British would mount and invastion from Africa but be prepared anyway. You can go ahead and take Greece as a back up if any thing goes wrong if Africa. any thing else just ask.

 

[Michaeru]

Get some troops from Europe to Alexandria, and everything you still have in Egypt you pull back to Port Said, or Suez, if you think it's enough to defeat what the Allies can pile up there. When they moved up to the North African coast, the troops in Alexandria waltz South to Fayum and afterwards onwards to Al Suwayz. They now support the attack on Port Said, and -pow-, the Allies are trapped.

Well, that's for the short term.

 

[manager12390]

well I've sucessfully conquered both Greece and Turkey, and Germany has DOWd the SU. I had to leave several divisions in Turkey because of a new border with the SU (and since Russia sees the main front in the north as a million times more important, they have left the Caucuses relatively undefended, meaning I can walk into Baku with my finger up my nose and see Germany rip through the oil-dry Russians while I reap the rewards of Baku and the high-IC cities in the Balkans)

As for Africa, once Turkey fell and the rest of my army was free, I came up with this plan for an amphibious assault on Port Sudan and a quick encirclement of a huge number of allied units by taking Dongala and Wadi Halfa. Then I would plow through the trapped allies and obliterate them, hopefully closing this front once and for all. Everything was going well - the amphibious assault succeeded, I transported a bunch of divisions to Port Sudan (including three armored), the Royal Navy was nowhere in sight. Wadi Halfa was home to a British supply stockpile, and although I'm not sure, it may have been the supply center for all of the allied forces in Africa. I was so sure everything was going to work perfectly - until 32 Italian, Spanish, and Bulgarian divisions, many of them brigaded with artillerty, ACs, or engineers, and the three armored units lost to twelve allied. I have no idea how, but I did. Like I said, I'm not an expert at this game, and I can't seem to locate the problem. The only thing that I can think of is that my TC is overtaxed, but that shouldn't matter battle-wise since I have full org. Any suggestions

 

[Pannonius]

Do you have CAS's? With enough of them, you can destroy the enemy without even having to fight on land. Just don't let the enemy to dug in.

 

[manager12390]

Do you have CAS's? With enough of them, you can destroy the enemy without even having to fight on land. Just don't let the enemy to dug in.

No, my air force is garbage. The only new planes I've built since the game started were two naval bomber squads, and I haven't researched anything. I still don't have any idea what I'm doing when it comes to air force. Anyway I think I've figured out the problem - I still have 1939 infantry while Britain has 1941. The research for '41 is done and now I just have to wait a bit for the upgrade.

I also have a couple of general questions. First off, does the AI Germany usually end up beating the AI USSR? A friend of mine bought the game at the same time I did and he plays on very fast all the time (as Brazil) He tells me that Germany has basically conquered the world in his game. Also, it's November of 1941 and Japan still hasn't joined the Axis. Does that mean that they won't do Pearl Harbor and the USA won't DOW?

 

[Pannonius]

You should research and build some CAS ASAP. I usually make them in squadrons of for units (400) planes, but you could also do a safer approach and mix them with fighters or escorts (it all depends on enemy's air strenght).
As for Germany, in all of my games as a third party, they completely pwn USSR. It's annoying when I play as USA or UK and that happens, Germany becomes unbeatable. Honestly, sometimes this game looks like a nazi-wank.

 

[unmerged(64836)]

Whatever you do, you must not attack neutral nations such as Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Persia. Turkey stops any Soviet divisions attacking your Middle Eastern Empire, and Persia stops all the British divisions from India getting through. Likewise, Saudi Arabia will stop the Omanis and Yemenis invading with British forces.
I had exactly the same problem as you- don't know why but Italy seems to be the most popular nation for starting out as. Anyway, I was able to quickly conquer North Africa as you have but there are two areas you must watch out for- Casablanca and the Sahara. Whenever Italian troops take Morocco, the Americans always land at Casablanca . What you should do is help the Nationalist Spanish reinforce Rio De Oro and their Western Saharan colony so you can repel any attacks there, and by all means maintain a large garrison in Casablanca or Tangiers.
Now, for your problem with troops attacking Suez, of course the best thing you can do is maintain a huge contingent of troops there to stop any amphibious landings, but also remember if you have taken Eilat that it is another way for the Allies to retake the Middle East, so defend that and Suez as well.
With Southern Africa, remember that South Africa, as well as providing loads of troops for Britain, also is used as a transit point by the Allies to send Australian and New Zealander troops up through Africa.
Portugal maintains two colonies in Central Africa- Mozambique and Angola. By all means do everything you can to keep Portugal out of the Axis. If Portugal allies with you, the South Africans will take all their land in Africa and next thing you know Libya is swarming with allied troops.
The only possible way for the South Africans to attack you by land across Africa is through the 'Bottleneck' of land at Rhodesia- the narrowest point of Allied land in Africa. If you can quickly race to Rhodesia, secure the few provinces which join it to South Africa, you may have a chance of stopping the seemingly endless flow of South African troops.
What I did, which is though I say it myself quite crafty, is got a load of cavalry regiments to attack Rhodesia across the Sahara and through the Belgian Congo (which is really easy to take over and thereby annex Belgium), then I seized all territory around Rhodesia. I then liberated Rhodesia as a puppet and released it so it wasn't a puppet any more. That meant that the entire route from South Africa to Italian North Africa was blocked by a neutral nation!
Oh, also I would consider releasing Libya as a puppet. If you do that, Libya will gain an extra 5 IC points and it'll be far more useful to you.

 

[manager12390]

I like the Rhodesia idea. If I liberate it and release it then it won't be Axis anymore? Very smart. Anyway, I successfully pocketed ten British divisions, including an HQ, in As-Suwayz and crushed them. That blow should put a stop to their attacks - for the most part. From here I think I'll just use the Cairo pocket trick. I'll leave Cairo open and wait until there's a sizable force inside, then take As-Suwayz and close the trap. I don't have any plans to take Persia or Saudi Arabia, as they have big mountain/desert regions and not that much IC. I've already taken Turkey, though, and I plan on keeping it. It helped me reach the 80 IC plateau. And like I said before, I'm winning in the Caucuses, and that means Baku.

I'm more concerned about Germany, though. When Barbarossa started they made some big advances, got all the way to Kiev and the river east of it. But then Finland fell, and the advance has come to a standstill. I'm thinking that it may have been because of winter, but now it's February and they still haven't gotten it moving. They take one province every once in a while and that's it. I'm just worried that Germany might not be winning this, and now with the USA in... well, I'm just worried that I might do everything right and still get swamped.

 

[GLENN]

If you get enough Naval bombers you can rule the Med. Then you can supply Africa.

 

[unmerged(64836)]

It's very difficult to get enough ships for Italy to rule the Med. I always find that building air bases in islands such as Cyprus, Crete and Sardinia always helps. Whilst playing as Italy I'd also suggest taking Malta very early on- the Brits seem to often redeploy their ships there if the situation in North Africa is beginning to look a little hairy for them.
But for your own sake and if you don't want to meet the entire South African Army, do not let Portugal join the Axis. Another good thing to do is to give all coastal provinces with low IC to Vichy France. It's a friendly fascist government which is never at war with the UK or USA, so you can secure your African Empire easily that way.

 

[unmerged(89506)]

Wow, your in a sticky situation. This is what I would do, although I am a very new player to this. I would hold out at Tanta, because it is surrounded by bodies of water. Thus, it would be harder for the enemy to attack. Port Said is harder to hold, but hopefully you have set up a few land forts. You should send back your main fleet to help suppress the attackers in Africa, and maybe even put down your Eurpoean plans to maintain Africa. Since you are fighting in a huge desert, I THINK that their vehicles would break down once in a while. I would pour out infantry equipped with anti-tank brigades.

But remember, I am a n00b, so don't follow my advice; I am just giving you input.

 

[unmerged(64836)]

Cavalry. Cavalry all the way in Africa and Asia. Mountainous or Desert terrain, low supply efficiency so they can't get enough oil quick enough and their organisation is low. Cavalry units are fast and effective against infantry, I find.
Mind you, tanks aren't practical to use in many areas in HoI2. Northern China, Europe, the Middle East, Russia and maybe small areas of North America are the only areas suitable for tanks in HoI.

 

[subnormalized]

Cavalry. Cavalry all the way in Africa and Asia. Mountainous or Desert terrain, low supply efficiency so they can't get enough oil quick enough and their organisation is low. Cavalry units are fast and effective against infantry, I find.

Is this a recommendation for or against CAV? CAV have pretty bad desert modifiers, you're better off with MOT, MEC, or ARM in the desert, IIRC. Mountains, I don't remember if CAV are decent or not, MTN is usually best but can be research/MP expensive.

Air Cav is awesome, though. So... very... fast.... :wacko:

 

[unmerged(41649)]

just take over the coasts and VPs with transport ships, leave the middle stuff alone

 

[unmerged(88534)]

In my opinion, you've done the rest of the world a great disservice by waiting for the Royal Navy to leave the Med before taking Suez. My entire naval strategy as the Axis is trap the Royal Navy in the Med. All of it. Step One: Malta. Draw them in. Step Two: Land-based assault on Gibraltar; you've got that one down; and simultaneously take Suez. Italy starts with a transport plane, make a paratrooper and use it. I play Germany and my buddy plays Italy, I depoly three transports so I have a 2x2 build of paratroopers and just send him one. Saves the tech redundancy. Step Three: Take every Med port. Step Four: Bomb the Royal Navy to the bottom of the Med while German infantry swims across the Channel. Step Five: Annex Canada before th Japanese get the USA into the war (that's the tricky part ... with all of Europe in Axis hands they like to DoW USA early).

 

[RDG]

I like the Rhodesia idea. If I liberate it and release it then it won't be Axis anymore? Very smart.

No. This wont work. You would first have to push them out of your alliance and that requires you to be the alliance leader and of course, this only works in peace times...

 

[manager12390]

Well, it doesn't matter. I've since restarted the game and I managed to encircle a total of about 20 British divisions on the way to Suez, including a dozen at Sidi Barrini (yes, it was glorious ) Needless to say, they won't be a problem again. I think there's only about five to ten allied divisions left in Africa, and I'm going to let them walk into Cairo and then close them in by attacking Az-Suwayz from Port Said. Well, anyway, thanks for the help from everyone

 

[UberFelix]

Tying up ally troops in Africa is a good thing. It helps your Jap and German allies. Alexandria is already fortified and if you fortify the Suez canal then you control the Eastern Med. You will have two armies sitting in forts tying up several allied armies. Like I said this is a good thing.

 

[unmerged(88832)]

Well, it doesn't matter. I've since restarted the game and I managed to encircle a total of about 20 British divisions on the way to Suez, including a dozen at Sidi Barrini (yes, it was glorious ) Needless to say, they won't be a problem again. I think there's only about five to ten allied divisions left in Africa, and I'm going to let them walk into Cairo and then close them in by attacking Az-Suwayz from Port Said. Well, anyway, thanks for the help from everyone

British troops sitting around the Libyan border are asking to be pocketed.

If you can grab Gibraltar AND Suez then you have the Royal Navy's med fleet trapped in Mare Nostrum. Their stock piles of fuel and supplies soon run out at that point the Italian Navy and Naval bombers can make mincemeat of them.

As for the Battle for Africa I usually end up trying a holding action along the Nile Valley whilst surging Italian Subs out into the Indian Ocean and the North Atlantic.

I personally favour Tacs over CAS. Italy should pursue Naval bombers and Tacs IMHO.