Royal Faction

[Gaudry]

I think there should be a Royal Faction in this game, which would help to promote realm stability, and could help to allow the Ruler to change laws within the realm. This would add alot of flavour events to a kingdom, depending on who is in the faction and the decissions of the faction members.

Royal Faction Benifits and Requirements

Dukes would be able to join the faction when they get to a 30 or higher possitive relation to the Ruler
Members of the faction no longer receive the short reign penalty modifier
Members supply a 10% bonus to levies while in the faction
Ruler Must invite vassals to faction just like any other faction
Clergy members of the faction pay their taxes to the Ruler rather then the Pope (or Patriach)
Once in the faction a member would have to leave in order to join another faction (independance, lower athoraty, ect)
Counts can join the faction at a 20 or higher relation to Ruler as long as they arent a vassal of a Duke
Court Advisors who are unlanded may join the faction at 0 or higher relation
Royal faction members will always vote yes to law changes the Ruler proposses
Faction members will transfer tech at a 20% bonus rate between their holdings

Royal Faction Downsides

Counts who are members will gain events asking the ruler to give them De Jue Duke titles the Rule holds
Court Advisors who are unmarried will have events asking for the any member's daughters hand in marrage as long as they arent clergymen. Event chain will eventually lead to them also asking for a countship in any uncreated Duke titles De Jue land
Royal dividends will be paid to each member from the treasury (0.04 to Advisors, 0.1 to counts, and 0.25 to Dukes) each month.
Mayor faction members pay 10% less taxes to the Ruler since its assumed the Mayor is loyal to the ruler so no tax audits are done.
Dismissing an Advisor and putting in one who is not part of the faction will give a -10 modifier to all faction members for 5 years.
Kicking a member of the Royal Faction without cause will give a -20 modifier to all faction members.
Faction members may leave any time they wish regardless of their relations to the Ruler
All landed and direct vassal Kingsmen are automaticly part of the Royal Faction regardless of their relations to the ruler (this plus the dividends should help to stop some people from filling their whole kingdom with their own family and promote dynasty diversity)
Any Duke who is 65 relation or higher and not part of the faction will get a -50 modifier as long as he has not been a member of the faction in the past 5 years (scorned by the Ruler) and is not a member of a rival faction.
Pretenders may still form their own faction for the throne while being a member of the Royal Faction
Royal Factions apply only to King or Empirer Titles
Assasination attemps have a +10% bonus modifier since people are seen to be trusted in the factoin (this one could be both good and bad for the player).
Revoking the title of a faction member without cause will give a -80 relation modifier to all faction members.

Event Chains

These are just a couple of suggestions for events in the faction. If you have more please add them in comments if you like this idea.

Advisors
Unmarried advisors ask for hand of daugher of a faction member in marrage (weighted Count 70%, Duke 25%, Ruler 5%)
Marrage is yes then member may ask for land in Duke or Kings holdings (count level title) after a son is born (30% chance if marries dukes daughter and 20% if marries Kings daughter)
Marrage is no then advisor may leave court (weighted Count say no 12% leave court, Duke 25%, Ruler 40%) Dukes and Ruler have option to be insulted if has proud trait and imprision Advisor

Clergy
Clergy ask for king to demand Pope crusade
If Ruler says no then clergy will have option of being insulted (-40 relations) 70% chance, Clergy tells Pope of decission (-25 relation to Pope) 25% chance, Clergy asks for Ruler to be excummunicated by Pope 5% chance
Pope may choose one of 5 options (Yes call to arms with Ruler joining war (gain Crusader trait) 10% chance, More Tithe is required before war can begin (loss 1 years income to Pope) 30% chance, Pope likes your Zelousness (gain Zelous trait and +25 relation to Pope) 28% chance, Pope uses your call to rally others (Pope receives +1 diplomatic skill) 30% chance, Pope refusses call to war (-2% religous athority) 2% chance.

 

[tuareg109]

Seems interesting and useful, but it needs a bit more working out (I suppose from the Paradox engineers who can test how it affects the game).
My only suggestion is NOT having family members automatically in the faction.
Historically, sons and brothers often plotted to overthrow their kin-lieges, or at least to undermine their authority.
The powerful and destructive rebellions of the sons of Henry II of England, as well as their plotting with King Philip Augustus of France, is a famous example; another is the extreme infighting within the Komnenos and Angelos families in Byzantium (sons blinded fathers, uncles castrated nephews, etc.).

 

[Strompator]

How about doing away with factions altogether? I was fine with my initial version of CKII - no mods, no DLCS, just the original version. Then steam found it necessary to upgrade to 1.08, and now factions abound, and they are driving me up the wall.

 

[tnick0225]

I like the idea of a royalist faction. Maybe add events in there where they target factions that are plotting the downfall of the king and vice versa. Could add a whole new level of intrigue into the game.

 

[Gaudry]

Seems interesting and useful, but it needs a bit more working out (I suppose from the Paradox engineers who can test how it affects the game).
My only suggestion is NOT having family members automatically in the faction.
Historically, sons and brothers often plotted to overthrow their kin-lieges, or at least to undermine their authority.
The powerful and destructive rebellions of the sons of Henry II of England, as well as their plotting with King Philip Augustus of France, is a famous example; another is the extreme infighting within the Komnenos and Angelos families in Byzantium (sons blinded fathers, uncles castrated nephews, etc.).

Never did look at that side of the Kinship flag....only looked at a way to stop putting every duke as a kinsmen then running elective so you can never lose the crown to another dynasty.

 

[nyah]

This was suggested when the factions system was first talked about. I'd imagine that PI have discussed it's merits and decided not to implement it, otherwise they would have done it already.

 

[tuareg109]

Never did look at that side of the Kinship flag....only looked at a way to stop putting every duke as a kinsmen then running elective so you can never lose the crown to another dynasty.

Heh, good idea, but then you could lose the crown to an idiotic character with a high diplomacy skill. Then instead of having your old demesne limit of 11 (I groom for stewardship), you're down to 7, and your income goes down by 25%.
More information on kinship: Henry II's sons were more than willing to dismantle his Angevin Empire, as it was called, to get on the throne of England as soon as possible.
Henry's wife Eleanor gave the Duchy of Aquitaine (yes, CK2's monster duchy making up 40% of France) to her son Richard, who was raised by her and was more Occitan than Norman. Henry couldn't do anything about this, and Richard's new vassals loved it; not only did they have a liege of their own culture, but he was actively working against Henry's might authority in the region. Under a rebellious duke, they could rebel for the rights that had been put down time and again (some by Richard himself, when he was younger). A mighty Aquitaine under a weak France (Philip Augustus only held Paris and the surrounding lands; the French King was weaker than most of his dukes) would prosper and could set a course for the entire area; those loyal to Richard would surely be rewarded. If Aquitaine was under Henry, however, any rebellion or petition for more rights would be crushed by his mighty armies and the rebels imprisoned or disenfranchised or executed, or any combination of the three.
Even so, Richard was not the official heir to the throne. Though primogeniture had been practiced by the Normans until then, Henry was loathe to divide his kingdom into three for his three surviving sons, and he heavily favored John (the infamous Lackland of Robin Hood legend, who later lost almost all of his French possessions) for the throne. Richard, formally a vassal of Philip Augustus, allied with him to war against Henry. Henry, in his age, failed to inspire the loyalty and steadfastness of his men, and signed a peace ceding several provinces to Philip and confirming Richard as the heir of his entire demesne.
The English nobles were furious; under a weak John they would have many more rights, would pay less taxes, and ultimately would have much more say in how the realm was run (evidenced by John's signing of the Magna Carta and the creation of Parliament after his disastrous failures in the French wars). When Henry died, these nobles supported John, but Philip Augustus and Richard beat them back with military skill, and King Richard (Lionheart) forgave his younger brother.
After this, Richard and Philip Augustus were bitter enemies, and fought in a few more wars (though they were occupied by the third crusade for some time), though that doesn't have anything to do with dynastic struggle.

Hey, sorry for the history lesson, but damn do I love telling a good (true) tale.

Now if only we could somehow simulate this level of intrigue in-game!!! :excl:

 

[Talq]

The reasoning for why there is no 'loyalist' faction is that any vassal not in a negative faction can be presumed loyal (or happy with the status quo).

This is not quite the same thing, but some of these features run the risk of event spamming especially the advisor demands daughters hand in marriage/demands land ones. I once started a Duke of Gwynedd game where 4 sons decided they wanted titles (along with two nieces wanting to get married) from the get-go. Literally couldn't go a month without somebody asking for something (and face facts, when its your demense, the answer is going to be 'no')

 

[Ciaphas Cain]

There's a princeling faction in CK2+ that's basically doing this.

There's also a faction that's mainly about partying at court.

 

[AdaChanDesu]

Let me quote you the CK2+ changelog

"Completely reworked the faction system. There are now four more-or-less permanent factions, each serving the interests of a particular group in your realm. For example, the Princely Faction looks after the interests of the high aristocracy, and want low CA and a weak liege, while the Religious Faction wants holy wars and a pious liege. Factions have moods ranging from Happy to Angry, and will help or hinder their liege depending on their mood. An unhappy or angry faction might demand changes in the crown laws, back a pretender, or even start an independence movement if relations deteriorate far enough. To keep the factions happy, you will need to look after their goals and maintain good relations with the members - relations with faction leaders are especially important. For more information on a specific faction's goals, mouseover the faction's name in the faction screen. To see a faction's mood, look at the character modifiers of its leader"

 

[Gaudry]

Interesting i may have to check out this CK2+ mod and take a look at its faction system.

 

[Ruwaard]

I must say I like the idea of a Royal Faction.

 

[shypixel]

Let me quote you the CK2+ changelog

"Completely reworked the faction system. There are now four more-or-less permanent factions, each serving the interests of a particular group in your realm. For example, the Princely Faction looks after the interests of the high aristocracy, and want low CA and a weak liege, while the Religious Faction wants holy wars and a pious liege. Factions have moods ranging from Happy to Angry, and will help or hinder their liege depending on their mood. An unhappy or angry faction might demand changes in the crown laws, back a pretender, or even start an independence movement if relations deteriorate far enough. To keep the factions happy, you will need to look after their goals and maintain good relations with the members - relations with faction leaders are especially important. For more information on a specific faction's goals, mouseover the faction's name in the faction screen. To see a faction's mood, look at the character modifiers of its leader"

I find the CK2+ faction system too easy. Just throwing feasts/hunts/tourneys/fairs when not at war is enough for most of them, with the occasional holy war for the religious group. You can also game the system by changing your primary title, which causes all the factions to reform from scratch. Now when you have let one of the larger factions get angry, it can be a pain, but the only way that should ever happen is if you neglect the feast/hunt/tourney/fair game.

 

[Gaudry]

I find the CK2+ faction system too easy. Just throwing feasts/hunts/tourneys/fairs when not at war is enough for most of them, with the occasional holy war for the religious group. You can also game the system by changing your primary title, which causes all the factions to reform from scratch. Now when you have let one of the larger factions get angry, it can be a pain, but the only way that should ever happen is if you neglect the feast/hunt/tourney/fair game.

Is the rest of the mod good? I was hoping to take a look at its faction system after hearing of it, but if it can be gamed it might not be worth it unless the rest of the mod is a good game.

 

[Duc_di_Regal]

I quite like this idea!!

 

[shypixel]

Is the rest of the mod good? I was hoping to take a look at its faction system after hearing of it, but if it can be gamed it might not be worth it unless the rest of the mod is a good game.

I absolutely love the rest of the mod. And my only real problem with the factions in it are that they made it too direct. You go to the faction screen and it tells you right there how to keep every faction happy, and one of those ways is to throw events, which ends up being enough 90% of the time.

Would be nicer if their wishes varied. Throw a feast this year, makes em happy, but next year, maybe they want something else... Or if what they wanted wasn't as simple as clicking a button and spending 10 gold on food.

 

[MrWeRD]

I feel that there are way too much cons to balance the pros.

Kinsmen membership, the chain evens, and the pretender protection, not to mention the overwhelming restriction over your actions, all have the potential to do more harm than good. All of this little inconsistency will eventually lead to even greater instability.

There such be more to justify this addition, perhaps a relationship bonus between the liege and the royalist, no negative relation modifier if you change your laws, or any other good reason for there to be a royalist fraction.

 

[unmerged(362834)]

I've tried the CK2+ mod for a week now... and I must say : the dudes who worked on it, did a great job! a job! It's not perfect, but hell, it's far more polished than the PI version...

Note that if you like to control half of the map by 1200, then the CK2+ mod isn't for you!

 

[brovahkiin]

I like this idea

 

[Gaudry]

I feel that there are way too much cons to balance the pros.

Kinsmen membership, the chain evens, and the pretender protection, not to mention the overwhelming restriction over your actions, all have the potential to do more harm than good. All of this little inconsistency will eventually lead to even greater instability.

There such be more to justify this addition, perhaps a relationship bonus between the liege and the royalist, no negative relation modifier if you change your laws, or any other good reason for there to be a royalist fraction.

The point of this faction is to encourage the Kingdom to be stable by the Kings relation to his vassals while at the same time forcing him to remain in the status quo for fear of his own vassals reactions. This i think was the case with a few kings threw out history where they had such a political click in court where there was little the king could do without alienating alot of his vassals.