ROTW-Aberration Ideas

[Fintilgin]

Actually, if it's created by event, it would be possible to have it start as whatever country you want. (By having a string of specific revolt events, let's say, written for Japan. Then simply put a trigger into the normal colonial reviolt events for that area which disables those events if it is owned by Japan.) But you could also have it tag-swtitch if it revolted.

Actually, I was thinking about this a bit more and I'd probably want to do a little of both. Some revolters would be tied to an area. For example, `Nova Italia' (or whatever) in the Florida area could revolt from Genoa or Sicily but only in that particular area.

Other revolters I'd tie just to culture by making 'generic' regional revolters which tag-switched. Say you had a generic West Coast of South America revolter. Anyone who owned those provinces could get the sequence leading to the revolt. Once that generic country had become independent it would check culture and tag-switch to an appropriate nation. The Jade Republic for example would be the first independent chinese colonies, whereever they revolted. The next set of revolting chinese colonies would check if the JR existed, and if it did become some other revolter. As these are totally fictional there's no need to tie them to a particular bit of land. In one game the JR might be in California, in another, Peru, and in another (weird one) New England.

Just for fun I'm going to try to fiddle around with some rough sketchy events for some of these this weekend and see what people think.

How do people feel about slavery events? I've got some ideas for those too I might try to draft out (I could probably use them in generic EU2 also). European countries that owned a slave province could institute the slave trade (or refuse) for a bonus of trade and money and such. After that, other colonial powers would get the chance to institute slavery in thier colonies (giving them the 'slaver' flag). 'Slaver' nations would get periodic boosts to the profibility of their colonies in the early game, with a risk of slave revolts and penatly events and such in the later game.

 

[I Killed Kenny]

If langusih don't mind the vinland scenario could very well be incorporated into Aberration.. I don't see why not...

 

[TheArchduke]

What does the Vinland scenario include?

 

[unmerged(1047)]

As far as I recall, it's mostly just events and setup for Vinland and something like 2 or 3 native-American nations that interact with them, and also some interactions with the Scandinavian powers.

 

[I Killed Kenny]

As far as I recall, it's mostly just events and setup for Vinland and something like 2 or 3 native-American nations that interact with them, and also some interactions with the Scandinavian powers.

yeah... no much interrection with the other European powers.. the only "problem" is that Vinland should colonize north america... so if you had much plans for the north, that could creat some problems...

 

[unmerged(1047)]

We could of course adapt things to meet our wants (assuming Languish is okay with our using the Vinland stuff at all - if not, we could still have a Vinland but with brand new events.)

The Vinland events as written, I think, only affect the coastal areas of Canada and the northern and central portions of the "Thirteen Colonies" region. So it might be compatible with say the Iroquois or Cherokee as evental rivals...

 

[unmerged(28992)]

I'd like to see a more radical alternative for Japan...so here's my suggestion.

History proceeds as normal with the Mongols conquering northern China in 1259. However then history changes when a fire breaks out on the docks while the Mongols prepare to launch their (historic) invasion of Japan in 1274. The fire burns for a number of days, fueled by the oil, pitch and tar used in ship construction. The fire (which greatly angers the Mongol lords) is eventually put out when a typhoon sweeps through the area (to the great relief of the Mongol lords), the Mongol fleet is repaired and sets sail for Kyushu.

The fire-induced delay prevents the Mongol fleet from being destroyed in the typhoon and allows the Mongols to successfully land on Kyushu. The Japanese fight with fantatical courage, tens of thousands of Samurai (who's style of war has become rigid and non-adaptive due to centuries of isolation) are killed opposing the technically more advanced Mongol troops

(Samurai steps forward, recites his lineage and challenges Mongol warrior to combat, Mongol troops laugh and turn Samurai into arrow pincushion).

The invasion of Kyushu is followed by the second (also historic) Mongol invasion in 1281 (which is also hit by storms but lands successfully due to Mongol-held beaches and ports) leading to the total conquest of Japan by the Mongols and the destruction of the Kamakura Shogunate. In a defiant final stand the Emperor himself is killed, but a group of loyal retainers secretly escape with his heir, fleeing into the woods and mountains where they join with the remenants of the Samurai and their retainers.

The majority of the Mongol troops leave due to problems in China, leaving only a small presence to maintain their authority, fight off raids by Samurai turned Ronin and ensure tribute is paid to the Khan.

In 1333 a devastating earthquake hits the eastern seaboard of Japan. Kyoto, Edo and dozens of other major towns and villages are flattened, fires consume the wood and paper buildings, there is widespread chaos and disorder.

Taking the earchquake as a sign from the gods, the Son of Heaven, Emperor Go-Daigo, rallies his Ronin troops and emerges from the mountains to take the battle to the disorganised Mongol occupation forces. Defeating a number of isolated Mongol outposts Emperor Go-Daigo rallies the people as he travels across his occupied realm before staging a grand battle on the fields of Kanagawa province. The Son of Heaven has spent his time in hiding well, learning the tactics and weapons of his enemies and the Battle of Kanagawa leads to a devastating defeat for the main Mongol force in Japan.

News of the return of the immortal Emperor sweeps across the islands and the people rise up across the land, slaughtering the Mongols wherever they are found.

Emperor Go-Daigo re-enters Kyoto and re-establishes his direct rule over the islands. The invasions and occupation had virtually anihilated the upper levels of pre-invasion Japan and only the oldest of Japanese subjects remembers what it was to live free of the Mongols. This allows the Emperor to appoint his favoured followers to positions of power across the land.

News of the uprising in Japan reaches the Mongols, who resolve to send a new fleet. However, the Mongols troubles in mainland Asia are considerable and only a small fleet can be dispatched.

Emperor Go-Daigo, learning of the Mongol's plan, sends out a call across the realm, gathering every vessel he can. Fishing craft, the remenants of the Mongol fleet and huge ocean-going Junks (which had travelled from Mongol occupied China to Japan before the uprising) and other craft are massed into a ramshackle fleet and move out to oppose the Mongol fleet.

In a desperate battle in the Sea of Japan the fleet of the Emperor overcomes the Mongol fleet. Brave Japanese volunteers set their ships ablaze and direct them into the heart of the Mongol fleet, staying at the helm and meeting their own deaths to protect their land and the divine Emperor.

The destruction of their fleet leads the Mongols to abandon plans to return to the troublesome Japanese islands.

Emperor Go-Daigo, having defeated his enemies and placed his followers in all positions of power, rules with a strong hand, breaking with tradition and intervening directly in the governing of Japan.

Never again! proclaims the Emperor, never again will foreign troops set foot on the sacred islands. The Emperor proclaims that the realm was punished by the inwardness of the Shoguns, who had allowed their infighting to weaken the realm and endanger the Son of Heaven. The Emperor decrees that Japan will build a mighty fleet the likes of which the world has never seen to ensure that no enemy warrior ever reaches the home islands again.

So that's it for background. Shoot forward to 1419 and Japan is moving forward. Recovering from the earthquake and the expulsion of the Mongol overlords has taken considerable time, as has the establishment of the Emperor's followers in their new positions. However, now Japan is strong and united again, has a fairly strong and ever-growing fleet and is determined to expand its reach and power.


How does that grab you?

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Parts of it made me think about WW2.

And about Meiji too.

EDIT: Although, I think it would be a workable plan to make Nippon non-isolationist naval nation.

 

[TheArchduke]

I am sold, Maku, I admit it.

 

[unmerged(28992)]

I am sold, Maku, I admit it.

Glad you like it
Following this we would probably have something similar to what Calanctus suggested, ie: a choice between

(1)Going fully Naval and heading off to explore South East Asia/Australia or the west coast of North America

(2)A more continental choice concentrating on securing Korea (the 'Dagger pointed at the heart of Japan') Manchuria and possibly settling the Kamchatchka area of Siberia while maintaining regional naval supremacy.

So a situation similar to that of Aberrated Granada in choosing war or peace with the Iberian Christians. Continental power and minor coloniser or minor continental influence and a major coloniser.

Option one gives a boost to Naval, adjusts slider settings and leads to an event granting a new Imperial ship yard somewhere.

Option two gives more cores on the Asian mainland, adjusts slider settings and possibly a conquistador or two in the future.

Regardless of which option is chosen I'm guessing that Japan would probably hold a continental policy similar to that of England in our time line. Opposing the unification of China (since it seems a divided China is agreed upon) by switching support between the Chinese factions to prevent any one of them becoming powerfull enough to challenge Japanese naval power.

 

[TheArchduke]

Those are details, Maku, please wait a bit till I decide on some overview and basic organization if we go with Fantasy or Totally Aberrated, in both cases your Japan idea is valid.

 

[unmerged(28992)]

Those are details, Maku, please wait a bit till I decide on some overview and basic organization if we go with Fantasy or Totally Aberrated, in both cases your Japan idea is valid.

Sorry didn't mean to get carried away
Just thought I'd throw some ideas out there to see if my idea could merge smoothly with some of the other Japan ideas out there already.

 

[ZhugeKongming]

I only have two problems with Maku's vision of Japan:

1. It's too historical. If the Mongols were invading Japan, that means they unified China, and if they unified China, the result every time would be a Chinese pseudo-nationalistic rebellion to get the barbarians out of the country, and then a policy of isolation and lack of expansionism to protect against further barbarian incursions that, in turn, would lead to the stagnation and eventual fall of the Ming (or whatever dynasty would have taken over) that happened in history. In other words, we would just have a Ming or Ming-like China at the beginning in that timeline.

2. Oda is nowhere in it, and Oda is awesome.

Other than that, I like it.

 

[unmerged(28992)]

Calanctus

Is it really necessary for the Mongols to have unified all of China under their rule before they attack Japan? Could they not just inflict a heap of lethal attacks on the Chinese, have them on the run and have estanblished contorl over a large part of China? What do you reckon?

Or...maybe things don't turn out the same way if China is conquered by the Mongols..
How about the Chinese do rise up as you said, but they are only successful in part of the country, with the Mongols hanging on to one region in the north..that could be used later for the divided China idea with one of those minor Chinese states still ruled by a Mongol dynasty.

Or the Chinese could rise up, totally drive out the Mongols and then fracture into different factions after failing to establish a clear ruling family.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Oda can be leader and / or excellent minister later on.

 

[ZhugeKongming]

Is it really necessary for the Mongols to have unified all of China under their rule before they attack Japan? Could they not just inflict a heap of lethal attacks on the Chinese, have them on the run and have estanblished contorl over a large part of China? What do you reckon?

Or...maybe things don't turn out the same way if China is conquered by the Mongols..
How about the Chinese do rise up as you said, but they are only successful in part of the country, with the Mongols hanging on to one region in the north..that could be used later for the divided China idea with one of those minor Chinese states still ruled by a Mongol dynasty.

Or the Chinese could rise up, totally drive out the Mongols and then fracture into different factions after failing to establish a clear ruling family.

Kublai didn't invade Japan until after he had a firm grip on China, and even with the manpower and resources of the entire country, he failed to subdue Japan... Admittedly, the first time was due to luck.

I just don't see the Mongols trying to go after Japan until China is crushed. Why go after a lesser, hard to capture prize? And the Mongols not being as successful as they historically were would be consistent with the rest of Aberration, too, i.e. the non-destruction of the Kaliphate and Bagdad.

And as for the last option, the Chinese reunified so easily under a new dynasty because of the Mongols. Even after they were kicked out of the country, they were considered a threat. I don't see China fracturing like that unless there are no exceptional outside threats to prevent it, which means making the Mongols weak.

Oda can be leader and / or excellent minister later on.

Pfft, that's boring. Oda, much like Friedrich der Grosse, shouldn't be someone else's flunky. And I don't really see him rising to prominence (or even existing!) in a Japan that never sees the Sengoku Jidai or something similar.

 

[ZhugeKongming]

Also, I don't see Japan being conquered so easily. The Japanese were heavily outnumbered in both invasions.

 

[unmerged(28992)]

Kublai didn't invade Japan until after he had a firm grip on China, and even with the manpower and resources of the entire country, he failed to subdue Japan... Admittedly, the first time was due to luck.

I just don't see the Mongols trying to go after Japan until China is crushed. Why go after a lesser, hard to capture prize? And the Mongols not being as successful as they historically were would be consistent with the rest of Aberration, too, i.e. the non-destruction of the Kaliphate and Bagdad.

And as for the last option, the Chinese reunified so easily under a new dynasty because of the Mongols. Even after they were kicked out of the country, they were considered a threat. I don't see China fracturing like that unless there are no exceptional outside threats to prevent it, which means making the Mongols weak.

Okay I must admit it is hard to justify an attack on Japan before the Mongols subdue China

However, I think you are over estimating the 'inherent' unity of China. Yes the Chinese have (in our time line) generally had a tendency towards national unity (all be it with the majority of ethnic groups coming under the sway of the Han), but that doesn't mean that they would unite under every circumstance.

There have been a number of 'Warlord' periods in Chinese history and this could be one. If, as you say, the Mongols are weaker in the Aberration world then perhaps this is why the Chinese fracture into smaller states, without the threat of another devastating attack the need for unity is less pressing.
Regardless, I think it is going a bit far to assume that China would unite every time without fail, the Chinese are not immune to the greed, intolerance and lust for power that afflicts every other race of people. History is full of leaders of men who put their own desires before the needs of their nation and people.

All of this aside, I think the Archduke is probably right and we should get a general idea for the region (and whether it is to be Totally Aberrated or Fantasy Aberated) before we get bogged down in details.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Maku, don't forget to put that [/QUOTE] after the part you quote, it's quite a pain to read that last post when one has no idea where quoted part ends and your post begins without checking from the post of Calanctus.

 

[unmerged(28992)]

Done