Hitler would certainly have seen Marx as Jewish but it's worth mentioning that Marx didn't see himself that way. Marx's family were converts to Lutheranism and Marx saw little connection between himself and the Jewish community.
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Hitler would certainly have seen Marx as Jewish but it's worth mentioning that Marx didn't see himself that way. Marx's family were converts to Lutheranism and Marx saw little connection between himself and the Jewish community.
Marx certainly considered himself German and not very Jewish at all. There's a funny anecdote of him on a pub crawl in London mocking the locals by telling them how inferior the English were to German culture. 
Most Jews in post-WW1 Germany, and especially those in prominent positions, had dim views of traditional Jewish culture and were not religious at all.Marx certainly considered himself German and not very Jewish at all. There's a funny anecdote of him on a pub crawl in London mocking the locals by telling them how inferior the English were to German culture.
Even so, the nationalists projected their hatred against them. Walther Rathenau was one such prominent politician and statesman of Jewish descent, who wasn't religious at all and was one of those 150% nationalists. They still assassinated him, without even a concrete reason. His prominence made him a lightning rod for other peoples' frustration and that was enough to have him killed.
Here's a bit of text I posted shortly ago in another thread, on the topic of antisemitism, and how it is *not* a reaction to anything Jews do or did:
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As paradox as it may sound - antisemitism is not about "getting even" with the Jews. Antisemitism is all about expurging the civilized, restrained, well-articulated, easily adaptable, nuanced, sceptic, well educated, non-dueling, non-violent, non-virile, non-aristocratic, cosmopolitan urbanite, and raising in his place the masculine, aggressive, simple-minded, unrefined, brutish, rooted-in-the-soil, farmer-soldier type who nurtures his self-esteem not by thinking highly of his own abilities, but by pondering what a prestigeous man (or cause) he serves.
Wherever you have a social milleu that is characterized by strict loyalty structures, virile values, and an emphasis on not-doubting, not-questioning, and letting others make decisions for you, you have an environment which is a potential breeding ground for antisemitism (in this particular time period, i.e., 1900-1940s).
Antisemitism is not a reaction to Jews, it's a reaction to the challenge that the modern, intellectual, anti-aristocratic, uninterested-in-the-past lifestyle poses to people whose were raised on the opposite values. Socialism and Communism are exactly that sort of challenge, they are an attack on the traditional values by a modernist movement with the stated intent of "rationalizing" society and "correcting" all the injustices caused by traditional social structures.
Historically, antisemitism only really disappeared when societies finished the social and mental "modernization": The leaving-behind of the old 19th century values, the disappearance of aristocracy and aristocratic structures, the complete eclipse of the rural lifestyles by urban life styles, and the reformation of the political system into a system centered on the values of dialogue, non-bellicosity, and compromise. The USA never got antisemitism because they were founded on those modern values already way back in the 18th century. Britain largely left it behind at the turn of the 20th century because the whole 19th century was one huge mental and social modernization push for them. Germany only left it behind after 1945, thanks to being shattered and then reassembled with completely new (American) values. In much of Eastern Europe, they only really left it behind in the 1980s-1990s.
Ratheanu was assassinated because he renounced German claims on the East with Treaty of Rapallo. For German nationalists, Germany's eastern border was extremely hot topic.
No Weimar politician ever renounced claims on Germany's east border.
What Rapallo did was to establish relations with Soviet Russia, and renounce the territorial and reparations claims of Brest-Litowsk. Poland and Lithuania, with whom Germany had hotly contested borders, were not parties to that treaty.
Signing a pact with the Judeo-Bolchevist hell is more than enough a reason to get killed.
For you? Or are you speaking for the guys back then? Plenty of nationalists saw the Rapallo treary differently.
I can only say it again: Jews weren't killed by antisemites because of real or even just imaginary grievances against their persons. The sole fact that a prominent person (the foreign minister!!) was Jewish, was enough to make antisemites' blood boil and put him on their death list. Antisemites wanted the Jews to go back into the Ghettos again and be meek again, like in old times. So they could harass and kick them around for the lulz.
The cited reasons for such murders were just made-up bullshit. If he hadn't signed Rapallo, they would have cited another reason in court.
Well for the Organisation Consul guys I guess.
We don't know what was inside their heads. I think Rapallo was an aggravating factor. Rathenau being Jewish was bad, but not enough to warrant a death sentence. Signing Rappallo was concrete proof of the Jews scheming with the Bolcheviks for the demise of the great Reich.
I dunno if that makes much sense, since IIRC the German right-wing welcomed Rapallo. The goal was to undermine Versailles so the alliance with the biggest anti-Entente state in Europe was quite logical.
I'd like to see a contemporary quote where any of the nationalists of the time really said that.
(Outside the Rathenau murder trial itself, where the defendants were trying to pass themselves off as patriots, not as antisemites. But we know the Consul types openly sung of killing Jews, so their antisemitic motives are beyond doubt.)
This. Although, Hitler was actually raised by both of his parents. You are mixing Alois, Hitlers father, with Adolf Hitler, it was Alois who was raised by his mother and had a stepfather. Not Jewish, btw, but German, named Huttler.
The rumor about him being Jewish by the virtue of biological father named Schickelgruber was quite persistent, and seeing it as it was Alois who had the bigger impact on Adolf compared to his mother (politically, i mean), the rumor played its part in strengtening the antisemitism further.
You cannot properly examine motivations and characters of Hitler (or anyone, actually) without looking at his childhood and family.
It's been quite a few decades since I read anything on the matter, and I'm probably confusing Adolf's childhood with his father's to some degree, but the animosity almost certainly stems from some traumatic childhood incident or situation that warped Adolph's views. As I said, you can't understand a lot of Hitler's irrational actions and persistent anti-Semitic violence without factoring in that underlying hatred; it was central to a lot of the political maneuvering and aggression. In my opinion, it's a serious question of whether Hitler used "Lebenstraum" and may of his other populist phrases and policies merely as tools to achieve his anti-Semitic ends, or whether they were separate goals in their own right in his mind.
I think you're psychologizing it too much. Antisemitism was a thing, and Hitler latched on to it as a young man the way some people latch on to communism or libertarianism or whatever.
Sure, i was agreeing with you. I probably should have divided my reply in the agreement about family and then point out that mistake, so it wouldnt read as if i were disagreeing with the family impact.
We literally have a psychological question in this thread, it cannot be answered otherwise.
History and state of antisemitism at that time gives context but is not suffiecent in itself to explain anything about the motivations of Hitler.
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I don't think you can underestimate the effect of losing WW1 without having had any real homeland territory taken by the enemy in battle. Hitler was a nationalist at heart above all else. And such a blow to the ego and pride of the nation must have a cause. For him it had to be the "fact" that the Jews had conspired on the homefront to weaken the morale of the German people. To destroy their economy. To do at home what they enemy abroad could not.
Once you accept that the Jews are the reason the homefront collapsed in ww1 as he did, it's not a stretch to then begin looking at other ways their "nefarious" influence has spread to every aspect of society.
Before WW1 he was just a casual anti-semite, like many people in that region of Europe were. After WW1, Jews went from being a casual item of scorn or ridicule to the central player in an Alex Jones level conspiracy and the primary reason that they lost WW1 and had suffered unforgivable humiliation. And of course as the social disintegration began in earnest post-war, he could also then go onto blame them for the cultural, "moral", and even physical collapse of the German people.
Once you accept that the Jews are the reason the homefront collapsed in ww1 as he did, it's not a stretch to then begin looking at other ways their "nefarious" influence has spread to every aspect of society.
Before WW1 he was just a casual anti-semite, like many people in that region of Europe were. After WW1, Jews went from being a casual item of scorn or ridicule to the central player in an Alex Jones level conspiracy and the primary reason that they lost WW1 and had suffered unforgivable humiliation. And of course as the social disintegration began in earnest post-war, he could also then go onto blame them for the cultural, "moral", and even physical collapse of the German people.
I´ve always been under the impression that Hitler wasn´t actually as anti-semitic as the atrocities that happened during the Holocaust suggest.
I´ve always thought that what he did was to capitalize the already existing anti-semitism in Germany, combined with the animosity the German people had after WW1, to achieve power. The famous "public enemy" strategy to rally the population under one banner, you could say.
That, of course, doesn´t make him any better person at all. He still directed the hate of a nation towards a certain minority, and conducted several awful atrocities against those people. I´m just theorizing that he may have done it simply as a means to an end, and not because he actually did believe all the stuff the blamed the Jews for.
Of course, most (if not all) of you are more knowledgeable about this subject than me, so I´ll continue reading this thread and learning stuff.
I´ve always thought that what he did was to capitalize the already existing anti-semitism in Germany, combined with the animosity the German people had after WW1, to achieve power. The famous "public enemy" strategy to rally the population under one banner, you could say.
That, of course, doesn´t make him any better person at all. He still directed the hate of a nation towards a certain minority, and conducted several awful atrocities against those people. I´m just theorizing that he may have done it simply as a means to an end, and not because he actually did believe all the stuff the blamed the Jews for.
Of course, most (if not all) of you are more knowledgeable about this subject than me, so I´ll continue reading this thread and learning stuff.
He prioritised killing Jews over everything. He directly harmed the German war effort in doing so. It was his highest priority.
I think he believed it and was genuinely antisemitic but it is true that he didn't specifically plan something like the Holocaust. It just happened that way because of how he was running things and of circumstances. Maybe if another man, even another Nazi was in charge things would be completely different.
I don't really think that's the case at all. He devoted too many resources toward extermination of the Jews during 42-43 that were needed on the war effort. The trains leading to the extermination camps had priority in queue even above soldiers moving East. He was a true believer to the very end. Just read his last will and political statement before he killed himself in the bunker. It is obsessed with his struggle against the Jews. And he even somewhat alludes to the holocaust when he talks about how this time it would not just be German civilians and soldiers that were bombed and burned to death without those "responsible" being brought to justice too "even if in a more humane manner". It's clearly a reference to the holocaust which he, in his sickness, actually viewed as a humane euthanasia type way to put Jews down.