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makif130289

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Hi, i wonder what were some obvious reasons for Hitler blaming everything on the Jews ? I know anti-semitism had deep roots in Europe, from Spanish inquisition to the writings of Martin Luther, anti-semitism was quite a common feature. But, i tend to differentiate Hitler's extreme paranoia from historical anti-semitism. Surely Hitler was affected by his environment and thus developing anti-semitic views while he was a youngster in Austria but IMO there must be some events from his perspective to convince him that the Jews were responsible for 1918 defeat, "Jewish financiers" squeezing Germany's recovery during 1930s and finally starting a world war to destroy Germany. He even equated Bolshevism to Jewish desire to dominate the world. So my question is that were there certain arguments Hitler used to support his extreme Jewish conspiracy theory ?

2 things that come to my mind :

1) Marx was a jewish so Marxism and Bolshevism are "obviously" Jewish tools. That one seems quite far-fetched. AFAIK some of the early bolshevik leaders were Jewish, may be that can be a point. But in Stalin's ruling circle, there were not any Jews.

2) Some of the ringleaders of 1918 revolution were Jews. ( Could someone clarify about approximate proportion ? ).
 
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eleinvisible

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Regarding #2, 5/23 (22%) of the Narkom were Jewish.

Hitler's distaste evolved, likely, from a combination. Traditional dislike, suspicion of patriotism and association with Bolshevism. These same factors manifested into a less murderous form of antisemitism in Poland as well.
 

makif130289

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Regarding #2, 5/23 (22%) of the Narkom were Jewish.

Hitler's distaste evolved, likely, from a combination. Traditional dislike, suspicion of patriotism and association with Bolshevism. These same factors manifested into a less murderous form of antisemitism in Poland as well.

Well 22 percent is particularly low to blame them IMO. How were jews associated with bolshevism BTW ? Most jews were either city-professionals or merchants who had nothing to do with socialism.

One more question, Hitler continously mentioned "International Jewry". Did he mean US capital being under control of Jews with this ? If so, were there any plausible arguments for it such as "X financial group being of jewish origin and having that much effect on the government" ? Or was "International Jewry" argument of Hitler simply a delusion ?
 

eleinvisible

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One more question, Hitler continously mentioned "International Jewry". Did he mean US capital being under control of Jews with this ? If so, were there any plausible arguments for it such as "X financial group being of jewish origin and having that much effect on the government" ? Or was "International Jewry" argument of Hitler simply a delusion ?
People still claim an international zionist conspiracy exists. I'd hazard to say it was nearly entirely delusional. Though certainly Jewish companies and people would boycott the country claiming to fight the "eternal Jew" and that would reinforce the view that they conspire against Germany.
 

Arilou

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Jews probably were overrepresented in leftist circles, largely because right-wing circles tended to be y'know... Heavily antisemitic. (not that leftist circles weren't, but it was less of an integral part of their ideological makeup)

Note that antisemitismw as very common among pretty much everyone at the time, to various degrees. Even people who weren't in favour of say, legal discrimination of jews, would likely subscribe to some antisemitic views.
 

trybald

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These same factors manifested into a less murderous form of antisemitism in Poland as well.

??
Not only the antisemitism in Poland is as usually overblown, but it also had much more different roots. Antisemitism (and its overlooked twin, the similar attitudes towards Poles among Jews) had their causes in the economic struggles of the poverty stricken post-WW1 Poland. Even if an individual peasant said that he hated Jews because they killed Jesus, the most likely cause was that he was heavily indebted to a moneylender in his pawnshop. Same with an university student, it was not the real or imagined support of Bolshevism among the Jews, but the consciousness that employment options is several profession were limited.
 

pithorr

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These same factors manifested into a less murderous form of antisemitism in Poland as well.

Murderous??? I beg your pardon, sir.

??
Not only the antisemitism in Poland is as usually overblown, but it also had much more different roots. Antisemitism (and its overlooked twin, the similar attitudes towards Poles among Jews) had their causes in the economic struggles of the poverty stricken post-WW1 Poland. Even if an individual peasant said that he hated Jews because they killed Jesus, the most likely cause was that he was heavily indebted to a moneylender in his pawnshop. Same with an university student, it was not the real or imagined support of Bolshevism among the Jews, but the consciousness that employment options is several profession were limited.

It was even more complicated, due to former partitions of Poland. Jewish community was perceived as not quite loyal to the new revived Polish state. Nothing unusual BTW, why Jews who were raised as citizens of Austrian, Russian or German empires would had started to feel like the Poles in just one night... Quite a lot of them did, however.
 

makif130289

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People still claim an international zionist conspiracy exists. I'd hazard to say it was nearly entirely delusional. Though certainly Jewish companies and people would boycott the country claiming to fight the "eternal Jew" and that would reinforce the view that they conspire against Germany.

Do we know if Hitler or some other senior NSDAP officials named influential Jewish companies in United States or Britain ? Didn't he at least need single argument to support his thesis ?

Jews probably were overrepresented in leftist circles, largely because right-wing circles tended to be y'know... Heavily antisemitic. (not that leftist circles weren't, but it was less of an integral part of their ideological makeup)

Note that antisemitismw as very common among pretty much everyone at the time, to various degrees. Even people who weren't in favour of say, legal discrimination of jews, would likely subscribe to some antisemitic views.

Yeah, jews being overrepresented in the socialist groups is probably a reason for Hitler's distaste.

Anti-semitism was widespread in Europe for centuries. An ordinary Pole or Russian was probably as anti-semitic as an ordinary German. Jews were locked up in the pogroms as well but not because of a global conspiracy theory, but as a result of popular anti-jewish riots among the common folk. And common farmer folk hated jews for centuries probably due to jews being wealthy merchants or professionals ( and not being one of them ).

In Hitler's case, anti-semitism didn't come from the base, it came from a political power. Unlike previous anti-semitic policies, Hitler blamed Jews for controlling the entire globe. So, i think he and his ideologues should have had some arguments to support their "International Jewry" theory. Maybe it was simply delusional but i think Hitler genuinely believed that. He threatened to annihilate Jews if they start another world war and after 1942 he just started this. To go this far, you should have some proof.
 

Amallric

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I think Hitler's antisemitism was pretty common for his time period. He didn't develop a very elaborated or particular doctrine, but rather followed the general conceptions of his time. I don't think he felt it necessary to support his claims with facts or hard proof. What he said "should be obvious for everyone"; if it wasn't, then that person was an enemy anyway, a Jew or a Jewish lackey. Either way no need for reasoning or debate. The Nazi movement was openly anti-intellectual, direct action was believed to be superior to theoretic ramblings.

As for the association between Jews and bolchevism, it was not an invention of Hitler, but a widespread belief after the Russian Revolution. Partly based on facts(many Jews made it into the leadership; especially as compared with the previous period where there were almost none it was a very visible change), partly due to Russian White Army propaganda during the Civil war.
 

Kovax

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Hitler's extreme hatred may have stemmed from more personal experiences. He was raised mainly by his mother, and may have been abused by his Jewish step-father, although no proof exists. In fact, any possible proof was removed by Hitler himself, who had his parent's house demolished and records destroyed almost as soon as he had the power to do so. In effect, he went out of his way to erase his own history as much as possible.

The Catholic Church forbade the lending of money at interest until fairly late in history, so Jews became the dominant financiers of Europe. That leading position was still very much true as of the start of WWII, although it was gradually eroding. The admission by Germany in the final year of WWI that it could no longer "win", but that it could stave off defeat and probably achieve a stalemate and truce, made it nearly impossible to secure the loans required to continue fighting, since it had previously anticipated paying back the debts with the gains from annexing territory. When the bankers failed to throw good money after bad and loan as much money as Germany requested, many blamed the defeat of Germany on the bankers. It was a touchy subject, and Hitler played upon the existing sentiments, rather than try to create hostilities out of thin air. As with most "hate" literature, there's an underlying reason for the hatred, particularly if you only look at one side of the issue, but so blown out of proportion and ascribed to evil motives that it no longer resembles the truth.

Much of Hitler's policy goes far beyond what was politically expedient, what was good for the war effort, or what was rational, in order to pursue his deep-seated hatreds. It's difficult to understand German policy in WWII if you divorce it from that underlying drive.
 

RedRalphWiggum

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Hitler's extreme hatred may have stemmed from more personal experiences. He was raised mainly by his mother, and may have been abused by his Jewish step-father, although no proof exists. In fact, any possible proof was removed by Hitler himself, who had his parent's house demolished and records destroyed almost as soon as he had the power to do so. In effect, he went out of his way to erase his own history as much as possible.

huh?
 

JodelDiplom

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Anti-semitism was widespread in Europe for centuries. An ordinary Pole or Russian was probably as anti-semitic as an ordinary German. Jews were locked up in the pogroms as well but not because of a global conspiracy theory, but as a result of popular anti-jewish riots among the common folk. And common farmer folk hated jews for centuries probably due to jews being wealthy merchants or professionals ( and not being one of them ).

Gert Mak wrote about the antisemitism in the Baltic countries, where the background was somewhat similar to poland... yet in Latvia and Lithuania, for example, the rural population launched absolutely brutal and vicious pogroms of their own, sometimes only days after the German troops arrived, before any Einsatzgruppen got to "work". In Latvia almost no one helped the Jews, only 2% or so of the pre-war Jewish population survived.

He explains it like this:

One factor was that the Batic people had gone through traumatic experiences with the Soviet takeover: Lots of violence, red terror, denunciations, destruction of loyalties etc. There was an enormous amount of frustration and repressed anger, and people "vented" it on the Jews (as well as the communists) at a time when the upheaval of war and occupation lowered peoples' "civilizational restraints".

Another factor was that Jews were seen as the better-off, better-educated, smarmy types who (often) got along so well with the occupiers due to their knowledge of German and Russian. The educated Jews were, in those regions, often better educated in German and Russian culture, than the Germans and Russians themselves. (At least better than the German/Russian soldier/officer types who got posted to those regions.) In the eyes of the rural folk, this had in the past let the Jews always cope much better with the changeovers in overlordship (WW1 occupation, post-WW1 troubles, independence, then Soviet occupation) than the common folk, so many common people had come to hate them.

And then another factor was that in Lithuania and eastern Poland, there really were a lot of Jews. Vilnius was something like 40% Jewish, Riga 20%, so the Jews weren't just a small group, they were a very visible, often dominant, group in the cities. The modernization of the late 19th and early 20th century shifted a lot of the economic life of those countries from the countryside into the cities so you can see how the Jews were seen as "winners" of the modernization process.

Lastly, you had the phenomenon, that Jewish culture in general was seen as the "civilized", the "restrained" culture - Jewish culture pretty much perfected the moral, disciplined, conscious values, which "dominated" bourgeois life. Jews could get angry but you rarely/never saw a Jew beating up a non-Jew. They restrained themselves, and got back at you in other ways. Compare this to the values of virility, rashness, bellicosity, and honor, which had been held high by the aristocratic and soldier-type people who dominated the 19th century. Duels, fistfights, manly / aggressive posture, those things were the opposite of what Jewish culture stood for. In the upheavals and modernizations of the early 20th century, you can see how declassé aristocrats or veterans who thought they didn't get enough respect from society, would, under pressure, lash out against the people who stood for the opposite of their own values - the Jews.

With Hitler, you can see a lot of that, too. Hitler was a reject from "civilized" society, economically declassé (the penniless, uneducated son of a respected customs officer), and he had grown up in Vienna where the gap between successful cosmopolitan Jews and struggling peasant-background common folk was perceived (by antisemites) to be particularly large. He inhaled all of that and made it his own.
 

makif130289

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Gert Mak wrote about the antisemitism in the Baltic countries, where the background was somewhat similar to poland... yet in Latvia and Lithuania, for example, the rural population launched absolutely brutal and vicious pogroms of their own, sometimes only days after the German troops arrived, before any Einsatzgruppen got to "work". In Latvia almost no one helped the Jews, only 2% or so of the pre-war Jewish population survived.

He explains it like this:

One factor was that the Batic people had gone through traumatic experiences with the Soviet takeover: Lots of violence, red terror, denunciations, destruction of loyalties etc. There was an enormous amount of frustration and repressed anger, and people "vented" it on the Jews (as well as the communists) at a time when the upheaval of war and occupation lowered peoples' "civilizational restraints".

Another factor was that Jews were seen as the better-off, better-educated, smarmy types who (often) got along so well with the occupiers due to their knowledge of German and Russian. The educated Jews were, in those regions, often better educated in German and Russian culture, than the Germans and Russians themselves. (At least better than the German/Russian soldier/officer types who got posted to those regions.) In the eyes of the rural folk, this had in the past let the Jews always cope much better with the changeovers in overlordship (WW1 occupation, post-WW1 troubles, independence, then Soviet occupation) than the common folk, so many common people had come to hate them.

And then another factor was that in Lithuania and eastern Poland, there really were a lot of Jews. Vilnius was something like 40% Jewish, Riga 20%, so the Jews weren't just a small group, they were a very visible, often dominant, group in the cities. The modernization of the late 19th and early 20th century shifted a lot of the economic life of those countries from the countryside into the cities so you can see how the Jews were seen as "winners" of the modernization process.

Lastly, you had the phenomenon, that Jewish culture in general was seen as the "civilized", the "restrained" culture - Jewish culture pretty much perfected the moral, disciplined, conscious values, which "dominated" bourgeois life. Jews could get angry but you rarely/never saw a Jew beating up a non-Jew. They restrained themselves, and got back at you in other ways. Compare this to the values of virility, rashness, bellicosity, and honor, which had been held high by the aristocratic and soldier-type people who dominated the 19th century. Duels, fistfights, manly / aggressive posture, those things were the opposite of what Jewish culture stood for. In the upheavals and modernizations of the early 20th century, you can see how declassé aristocrats or veterans who thought they didn't get enough respect from society, would, under pressure, lash out against the people who stood for the opposite of their own values - the Jews.

With Hitler, you can see a lot of that, too. Hitler was a reject from "civilized" society, economically declassé (the penniless, uneducated son of a respected customs officer), and he had grown up in Vienna where the gap between successful cosmopolitan Jews and struggling peasant-background common folk was perceived (by antisemites) to be particularly large. He inhaled all of that and made it his own.

Thanks for the excellent explanation. It really clarifies the roots of strong anti-semitic sentiments in the Eastern Europe. I agree that Hitler's personality was shaped by more or less same feelings with people around him. In Mein Kampf , Vienna seems to be a great frustration to him.

My curiosity was that if he or other pary ideologues added some concrete arguments to their anti-semitic views which were core part of National Socialism. When you say "International Jewish Financiers", people expect to hear at least one or two names that could fit in the description.
 

Amallric

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people expect to hear at least one or two names that could fit in the description.

One of the embodiments of Jewish evilness for the German rightists was Walther Rathenau http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_Rathenau This is actually quite ironic, because he was a staunch nationalist and believed that Jews should assimilate into the German culture and society(a quite widespread view among German Jews at the time, actually). But he was of Jewish descent, rich, and when he became Foreign Minister he made a pact with Soviet Russia. What better proof could there be for an international Jewish conspiracy aspiring to the demise of Germany?
 

JodelDiplom

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Thanks for the excellent explanation. It really clarifies the roots of strong anti-semitic sentiments in the Eastern Europe. I agree that Hitler's personality was shaped by more or less same feelings with people around him. In Mein Kampf , Vienna seems to be a great frustration to him.

I think a key to understanding the craziness of the early 20th century lies in the mentalities of common people. People think they live in rapidly changing times today, but in fact for many people living around the turn of the 20th century it felt like their entire world was changing upside down. There was a modernization going in, in all European countries, which had started with the industrial revolution and brought all kinds of new stuff upon people - land flight, urbanization, mass education, decline of old values, rise of new values - and despite an almost universal rise in living standards, people felt their livelihods were much more precarious (as a consequence of all these things) than the lives of their forefathers had been. To someone born into a rural setting, where it feels like nothing ever changes, moving into the city was a life transforming experience. Lots of things you took for granted in the village - like communal solidarity, working at your own pace, providing for at least a part of your food yourself, knowing everyone around you intimately well - weren't there any more in the city, and the demands of the new life were challenging for many. You had to find a job, get along with anonymous neighbors, live by the clock instead of living by the rhythm of daylight, accept that you could make almost nothing you needed for yourself and instead buy everything for money, and all that. The rural life style also used to entail that young people could learn all there was to learn from their parents and grand parents - that, too, was no longer the case in the city, and it's often underestimated how much this confused people at the time.

So, many people were really confused and insecure, about everything basically. And people ended up grasping at weirdo theories that helped them feel better, overcompensating for their felt deficiencies, and of course they also vented their anger on those who got along better. Jews just happened to be the most visible group that had always lived in cities (unlike the common yokel), had always had a penchant for education (unlike the common yokel), and never lived the agrarian life (unlike the common yokel). So people vented their anger on them.

Also, like today, people preferred to blame their hardships on invisible fictional forces that they don't understand. Just look at chemtrails, 9/11 truthers, and those who blame Monsanto for world hunger, and then you see the same thing basically as when 100 years ago people blamed racial mixing for the (alleged) social decline, and Jewish Bankers for the economic crises.
 

Eusebio

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Well 22 percent is particularly low to blame them IMO. How were jews associated with bolshevism BTW ? Most jews were either city-professionals or merchants who had nothing to do with socialism.

Because the socialist movement saw itself as the fulfillment of the bourgeois-democratic revolutions of the 19th century that had emancipated the Jews politically, while the established ruling class of Europe and America was still thoroughly anti-semitic.
 

Gordy

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Jews got very little from whatever country they were part of and were often victims of state persecution. This bred a certain kind of community focused Judaism where they looked at for each other because nobody else would. Europeans and Americans saw this as Jewish control over certain professions e.g. doctors, lawyers, bankers where (in their view) it was difficult to break into these careers if you were not Jewish and thus lacked connections.