Rookie war questions

[unmerged(15337)]

Background: I'm playing the Staden family, Dukes of Brandenburg. I'm up to the 1130s and my duchy consists of 7 provinces: the starting 3, 3 originally pagan provinces on the north German coast, and the province of Kurs farther north along the Baltic (modern day Riga I believe). The Kingdom of Germany has had its ups and downs, including a very bad period about 1110 when I finally broke away and my duke at that time became independent. However, by 1130 they're back in much better shape, comprising about 2/3 of the original kingdom. For various reasons, I have played and replayed the period 1131-1135 several times, and every time the King of Germany declares war against me sooner or later. So it's pretty clear that I am very high on his hit list.

I can put a decent army in the field but the forces of the German king are far greater, probably a 3-1 margin or even 4-1. Once he brings up the bulk of his forces I can't beat them; the best I can manage is to move around them and play tit for tat with siege and counter-siege of the provinces in my demesne (6) and his (11). But in time my armies get worn down (so do his, but he's still got a lot more to work with), and I go deeper and deeper into debt with the war a standoff at best and, more commonly, Brandenburg in a losing position.

So I have several questions about this:

1. Not surprisingly, the German king never accepts my peace offer, regardless of war score (usually heavily in his favor, occasionally in mine). My offer is for white peace or, sometimes out of spite, demanding that he recognize my ownership of Mecklemburg. However, the AI has never submitted its own demands of me. Not once a demand of tribute or to transfer this or that title to the German king. My conclusion is that the AI is going for total victory and will neither accept nor demand anything less. Is this correct?

2. The German king's army regularly captures my home provinces right around Brandenburg. But they never take Kurs or, as far as I can tell, make any attempt to go anywhere near it. Why not? Sure, it would take some time, but particularly if they're going for total victory don't they have to capture that, too?

3. How badly can one go into debt? By the time I quit last night, I was over 4000 ducats in debt with no end in sight. I had kept going as an experiment, wondering at what point some apocalyptic conclusion (bankruptcy? forced peace?) would be imposed on me, but it hasn't happened yet.

4. Twice I got an event from the Pope where he attempted to force both sides to peace by fiat ("the peace of God" I think it was called). Both times, I chose the option to respect the Pope's wishes (even though my duke had been excommunicated for a long time heh) but the German king apparently did not, since the war didn't stop. Presuming that the German king defied the Pope both times, what exactly were the consequences? As far as I could tell nothing notable happened to him either time.

5. Twice I got events which disbanded a regiment of mine. What causes this event? High debt? War exhaustion? Or something else?

 

[TempestDK]

Background: I'm playing the Staden family, Dukes of Brandenburg. I'm up to the 1130s and my duchy consists of 7 provinces: the starting 3, 3 originally pagan provinces on the north German coast, and the province of Kurs farther north along the Baltic (modern day Riga I believe). The Kingdom of Germany has had its ups and downs, including a very bad period about 1110 when I finally broke away and my duke at that time became independent. However, by 1130 they're back in much better shape, comprising about 2/3 of the original kingdom. For various reasons, I have played and replayed the period 1131-1135 several times, and every time the King of Germany declares war against me sooner or later. So it's pretty clear that I am very high on his hit list.

I can put a decent army in the field but the forces of the German king are far greater, probably a 3-1 margin or even 4-1. Once he brings up the bulk of his forces I can't beat them; the best I can manage is to move around them and play tit for tat with siege and counter-siege of the provinces in my demesne (6) and his (11). But in time my armies get worn down (so do his, but he's still got a lot more to work with), and I go deeper and deeper into debt with the war a standoff at best and, more commonly, Brandenburg in a losing position.

So I have several questions about this:

1. Not surprisingly, the German king never accepts my peace offer, regardless of war score (usually heavily in his favor, occasionally in mine). My offer is for white peace or, sometimes out of spite, demanding that he recognize my ownership of Mecklemburg. However, the AI has never submitted its own demands of me. Not once a demand of tribute or to transfer this or that title to the German king. My conclusion is that the AI is going for total victory and will neither accept nor demand anything less. Is this correct?

2. The German king's army regularly captures my home provinces right around Brandenburg. But they never take Kurs or, as far as I can tell, make any attempt to go anywhere near it. Why not? Sure, it would take some time, but particularly if they're going for total victory don't they have to capture that, too?

3. How badly can one go into debt? By the time I quit last night, I was over 4000 ducats in debt with no end in sight. I had kept going as an experiment, wondering at what point some apocalyptic conclusion (bankruptcy? forced peace?) would be imposed on me, but it hasn't happened yet.

4. Twice I got an event from the Pope where he attempted to force both sides to peace by fiat ("the peace of God" I think it was called). Both times, I chose the option to respect the Pope's wishes (even though my duke had been excommunicated for a long time heh) but the German king apparently did not, since the war didn't stop. Presuming that the German king defied the Pope both times, what exactly were the consequences? As far as I could tell nothing notable happened to him either time.

5. Twice I got events which disbanded a regiment of mine. What causes this event? High debt? War exhaustion? Or something else?

1. Usually yes ... the AI is stubborn in this game, and will usually not accept peace offers if he thinks he can get better by continuing. You can try offering him vassalage again. That might appease him.

2. AI is stupid .. that is why

3. As much as you want as far as I know. Maybe there are events that will disband your army due to lack of funds ... but that does not keep you from raising the regiment again. It is just a matter of how big a hole you want to dig yourself out of afterwards.

4. I have never really seen that. The guy who does not respect it will be excommunicated if I remember correctly.

5. It could also be a disloyal marshal or vassal.

If you think that you offer reasonable terms and the AI just don't want to accept them, some feel it is ok to use the byzantine cheat to make it accept your terms.

 

[unmerged(15337)]

Thanks for the answers. Regarding peace offers, I was not surprised or bothered much by the AI rejection of my offers. I'm used to stubborn AI peace logic from EU2 and EU3. What does surprise me, however, is that in this case the AI isn't making any attempt at counteroffers, on any terms. That is something I don't remember ever seeing in the EU games.

I'll check to see if the German king got excommunicated for rebuffing the Pope. If he did, it doesn't seem to be slowing him down much.

 

[unmerged(135995)]

The AI does offer terms, ranging from the idiotic ('you have killed almost annihilated us, would you give us all of your money?') to the downright suicidal ('give your money and all your territories for a game over'), and occasionally it asks something that makes sense.

What you should do is offer the AI to become its vassal once again, offer him some money and perhaps renounce one of your lands. That'll usually satisfy the AI. You'll lose your independence, but you'll keep (almost) all of your territories and, knowing the kingdom of Germany, you'll have the chance to break away sooner or later.

 

[TempestDK]

I'll check to see if the German king got excommunicated for rebuffing the Pope. If he did, it doesn't seem to be slowing him down much.

Give it time ... but if he controls 11 provinces on his own, then it doesn't really matter much if the vassals become disloyal, though you can always hope that revoltig vassals will make him distracted.

As for prolonged defensive wars in your home provinces, set your Army upkeep slider to 0. As long as your armies are in home territory with roads and under the supply limit, there will be no attrition. This way you can keep yourself from going into too much debt.

What claims do the king have on you?? ... if he does not control the provinces he wants, I don't think he will/can offer you peace where he gets all of those.

 

[TempestDK]

The AI does offer terms, ranging from the idiotic ('you have killed almost annihilated us, would you give us all of your money?') to the downright suicidal ('give your money and all your territories for a game over'), and occasionally it asks something that makes sense.

What you should do is offer the AI to become its vassal once again, offer him some money and perhaps renounce one of your lands. That'll usually satisfy the AI. You'll lose your independence, but you'll keep (almost) all of your territories and, knowing the kingdom of Germany, you'll have the chance to break away sooner or later.

Also if you know the germans are about to invade, you could pledge yourself to another realm close by ... maybe France. This might make the germans take pause about attacking you, though that is not certain. But at least the french will come to your aid.

 

[unmerged(15337)]

As for prolonged defensive wars in your home provinces, set your Army upkeep slider to 0. As long as your armies are in home territory with roads and under the supply limit, there will be no attrition. This way you can keep yourself from going into too much debt.

!!! Didn't know that. I'm used to the EU series and I figured that at low maintenance the armies would crumble in heavy fighting due to poor morale. Evidently that is not the case in CK?

As for pledging myself to a rival kingdom such as France, IMHO that would be out of the frying pan and into the fire. Truthfully, if I'm going to be a vassal I at least want to serve my own German king. Other than fighting me he's really not a bad sort.

I might try ZwolscheStudent's strategy and attempt to pledge myself to the German king. If all it costs me is that and maybe a bit of cash, but no titles, I could live with that.

 

[TempestDK]

!!! Didn't know that. I'm used to the EU series and I figured that at low maintenance the armies would crumble in heavy fighting due to poor morale. Evidently that is not the case in CK?

As for pledging myself to a rival kingdom such as France, IMHO that would be out of the frying pan and into the fire. Truthfully, if I'm going to be a vassal I at least want to serve my own German king. Other than fighting me he's really not a bad sort.

I might try ZwolscheStudent's strategy and attempt to pledge myself to the German king. If all it costs me is that and maybe a bit of cash, but no titles, I could live with that.

Yes, CK is different from EU in lots of ways. Low maintenance means higher attrition here, not lower morale.

Maybe pledge yourself to Germany (though that might not save you), or offer vassalge in the peace talks. At least you will get some peace, and hope that if Germany wants to press thair claims, they will not be too powerful.

Edit: Just remember that if you set the Upkeep slider low, if you move armies beyond your own territory, you will be regretting it as the army dwiddles away in no time

 

[unmerged(15337)]

Situational update: I replayed this section using the defensive war and no maintenance strategy. The war was still going poorly but at least I wasn't plunging into debt. Then I got a HUGE break when the Pope called for peace and, apparently, the King of Germany listened to him for a change. So the Staden Dukes of Brandenburg are still independent and in good shape for the time being.

 

[TempestDK]

Situational update: I replayed this section using the defensive war and no maintenance strategy. The war was still going poorly but at least I wasn't plunging into debt. Then I got a HUGE break when the Pope called for peace and, apparently, the King of Germany listened to him for a change. So the Staden Dukes of Brandenburg are still independent and in good shape for the time being.

Just be aware that Germany still has claims on you, and they will probably be back alter to press them again. So if you see the opportunity to take advantage of any bad situation the HRE might get themselves into, you should do that ... if you don't feel like claiming half of Germany, you can always just force him to give up the claims on your territory.