Rookie pilots will die by your choice, not RNG

[Prussian Havoc]

Actually, it is not. It just means that your actions don`t matter anymore, since the enemy will probably get more lucky shots by default.

I plan on getting in plenty of lucky shots myself, I'll not begrudge the AI a Kiva-share of luck itself.

Besides, my greatest concern for quite awhile now has been that BATTLETECH would require a BATTLETECH: Brutal Edition patch within a month of Launch. That for too many gamers, the AI would not prove lethal enough. That Solo-Campaigns would prove too consequence-free or consequence-light.

For me Kiva's focus is entirely right and proper. And I like her desire to shift letality toward 10-or so deaths per Campaign. Longer healing times and heightened legality goes a long way toward alleviating my above concerns.

I trust in Kiva.

 

[Stuckenschmidt]

You're basing that on the assumption that a lucky shot equals a kill. From what we've seen, pilots take "injuries" as a single unit regardless of whether it was caused by a critical hit to the cockpit or simply being knocked down, and your pilot's guts rating increases how many injury units they can take before they are incapacitated (and even that doesn't mean dead). If you want more survivors, raise your guts skill, get the reinforced cockpit. Stack the odds in your favor, don't leave it all to RNGesus then curse the results like you had no control over it.

I have to disagree, because when the Developer tells me that they want x amount of deaths, then it is basically irrelevant how good I play, because my people will keep dying anyway. I mean, this is by far not the first (or last) game with cheating AI, but can we at least not pretend as if that`s a virtue or upper class game design?

And I am not even talking about RP. Do you remember the three MechPilots from that screenshot in the conference room? Suppose you play good and lose three Pilots during the campaign, then there are good chances that at least one of them survives as long-term comrade. With 10 deaths it is not even worth memorizing their names, since they will be dead soon anyway.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

...With 10 deaths it is not even worth memorizing their names, since they will be dead soon anyway.

I agree... that is what the Memorial Wall in the ARGO's Command Office is for. :bow:

 

[Stuckenschmidt]

I agree... that is what the Memorial Wall in the ARGO's Command Office is for. :bow:

Which begs the question why anyone would want to become MechPilot in the first place when the chances of survival at Russian Roulette are way higher.

 

[RealCadaver]

I wonder what 10 deaths equates to in terms of missions played? Is that 10 deaths over 25 missions, or over 100 missions (contracts)

 

[Stuckenschmidt]

I wonder what 10 deaths equates to in terms of missions played? Is that 10 deaths over 25 missions, or over 100 missions (contracts)

Plus I`d like to ask, whether those who completed the campaign with 3 fatalities were new or experienced players.

 

[Stefan Amaris Jr]

I have to disagree, because when the Developer tells me that they want x amount of deaths, then it is basically irrelevant how good I play, because my people will keep dying anyway.

If the average player/playthrough has around ten deaths then surely that doesn't necessarily mean it's irrelevant how well we play - perhaps a good player will have low single figures or even zero deaths? At least, that could be something to aim for given there aren't varying difficulty levels.

We're all going on limited info here, but I have faith that we'll see some skilled players outperforming the average by a significant margin, at least going by what one sees in other tactical games and the glimpse we had of the beta,

 

[Prussian Havoc]

I wonder what 10 deaths equates to in terms of missions played? Is that 10 deaths over 25 missions, or over 100 missions (contracts)

I believe that between the Solo-Campaign's Restoration Arc Missions, other Story Mission and Procedurally Generated Missions, the answer to that is not only closer to 100, but quite likely on the far side of 100... at least for gamers like myself who intend to make frequent, even extensive use of the Procedurally Generated Mission options. : )

 

[Stuckenschmidt]

We're all going on limited info here,

Actually no. Just on the last page Kiva said, that 3 fatalities are not enough and so lethality gets increased because of...reasons / for the lulz (because I have not heard any compelling argument why higher lethality is actually necessary for the gameplay). You assuming that an experienced player may beat the RNG is, on the other hand, indeed unconfirmed.

Plus what about new / inexperienced players with higher-than-average death tolls? In all seriousness, this is a bad idea and very well qualified to cause frustration. If HBS wants to make it harder, then via the management part and keeping the company afloat financially.

I wonder what @HBS_HighCommand thinks about it.

 

[CarpeMortis]

If HBS wants to make it harder, then via the management part and keeping the company afloat financially.

Isn't that what they are doing? The concept that Kiva is pushing here is that Mechwarriors are line items on your balance sheet just like Mechs are. Paying to keep your roster deep and flexible is part of "keeping the company afloat financially".

In any business you have employee turnover. Rather than coding an engine to model individuals leaving the company for personal reasons, getting poached by other units, getting captured, aging out, etc. HBS used the existing mechanic of pilot death to facilitate employee turnover.

 

[Packrat]

I wonder what the overall turnover rate is supposed to be -- 10 deaths is a lot different perceptually if we'll only usually have 6 pilots at a time or over 12.

 

[Amechwarrior]

Actually, it is not. It just means that your actions don`t matter anymore, since the enemy will probably get more lucky shots by default.

I have to disagree, because when the Developer tells me that they want x amount of deaths, then it is basically irrelevant how good I play, because my people will keep dying anyway. I mean, this is by far not the first (or last) game with cheating AI, but can we at least not pretend as if that`s a virtue or upper class game design?

And I am not even talking about RP. Do you remember the three MechPilots from that screenshot in the conference room? Suppose you play good and lose three Pilots during the campaign, then there are good chances that at least one of them survives as long-term comrade. With 10 deaths it is not even worth memorizing their names, since they will be dead soon anyway.

Actually no. Just on the last page Kiva said, that 3 fatalities are not enough and so lethality gets increased because of...reasons / for the lulz (because I have not heard any compelling argument why higher lethality is actually necessary for the gameplay). You assuming that an experienced player may beat the RNG is, on the other hand, indeed unconfirmed.

Plus what about new / inexperienced players with higher-than-average death tolls? In all seriousness, this is a bad idea and very well qualified to cause frustration. If HBS wants to make it harder, then via the management part and keeping the company afloat financially.

I wonder what @HBS_HighCommand thinks about it.

By 10 deaths we might assume that would be for an average players first playthrough. A poor player might double it and a great one might even get away without a single loss. I'm not assuming she's increasing AI cheat rates, but instead tuning the odds on the "Pilot Incapacitated" roll to determine if a pilot lives or dies if their pilot HP is depleted. A very good player just won't lose 'Mechs as often and would only really have to worry about AC/20 headshot RNGs. She mentions only losing a few MW a story play-through, we know the Argo can have up to 18 'Mechbays and I'd assume an equal or greater number of bunks for MW. If you never really lose them, and can delay my missions to repair/heal, why would I need more than maybe 8? More pilots also means more pay to account for and still more tags for the event system to trigger off with.

Also, this is a wargame, expecting to not lose anyone no matter how good you are is probably not the best assumption. Increasing lethality also aligns with the "Save the metal, not the meat" and other thematic hooks the devs seem to be aiming for with the game, not just for lulz.

 

[Havamal]

Its a balance decision based on testing and actual gameplay feedback. Works for me.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Its a balance decision based on testing and actual gameplay feedback. Works for me.

Agreed. No one knows the game like Kiva does. I trust her to deliver all the Big and Stompy I can handle. : )

 

[Rhodryn]

Even elite MechWarriors can have bad days where everything they do goes wrong.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Even elite MechWarriors can have bad days where everything they do goes wrong.

"Long may we be inspired by their example, their professionalism and their Honor." ~ Dekker

 

[Havamal]

We will have a chance to gain a gameplay informed opinion on the balance ourselves very soon!

 

[KhazadDhum]

"Long may we be inspired by their example, their professionalism and their Honor." ~ Dekker

"I call dibs on his bunk" - Skippy

 

[Kereminde]

"I call dibs on his bunk" - Skippy

Skippy's list #1003: "I will not call dibs on his bunk while he's standing next to me."
#1003a: "Or in the same room."
#1004: "I will not call dibs on a fellow MechWarrior's anything out loud."
#1004a: "Semaphore flags are still not okay."
#1004b: "Unless it's the OpFor."

 

[Kereminde]

Actually, it is not. It just means that your actions don`t matter anymore, since the enemy will probably get more lucky shots by default.

I've been playing my campaign, and increasing the lethality wouldn't take adjusting lucky shots. To multiply lethality I need to do two things:

1. Remove a "panic button" ejection roll for when the head/cockpit is destroyed by damage. Currently much like DFA, they get a Piloting Skill roll to eject, modified by +2 on top of all other rolls.
2. OR make it possible for them to accumulate wounds from failure to heal up from medical teams, such as "past Margin of Failure -3, take an extra wound for each additional point missed by".

Either way? The game gets a lot more lethal. Especially with the first method, which is strictly and completely counter to the rulebooks. I'll be utterly honest? That alone made it possible to keep MechWarriors alive and we only lost one out of 20-30 missions.