RomeWiki - Character Attributes and Statistics - Vae Victis

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Trying to describe how characters function seemed a bit overwhelming so I'll use this forum to help flesh out an usable text.
(This is a text in working so I post and edit as it goes.)
BTW: HELP!!! Inputs and clarifications wanted. No comment is to small.
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To help me I dissected the character mechanics into three (four) parts.


1.) Attributes: Attributes range from 0 to 10 but modifiers caused by Traits can cause Attributes to be higher than their normal range.

Simplified you may say that a '5' in any attributes is mediocre and such character will do no harm or good. Some character roles also gives bonuses for each attribute point above '0' and some actions gives bonuses based on the difference between characters.
So to sum it up: 0 = abysmal; 5 = mediocre; 10 = Best of mankind; 10 < Son of "insert your god's name here".


Martial: This attribute is a Character’s ability to understand warfare and marshal his or her fighting forces in battle.
Useful for anyone who have a military connection. Commanders with the highest score receive bonus in battle. Rulers, Ministers and Magistrates may give morale bonus. Governors defend better when sieged.


Charisma: This attribute is a Character’s ability to influence others.
Useful for everyone as it affects Popularity directly. Rulers needs to be popular. Ministers and Magistrates give bonuses in their area of expertise. Commanders receives combat advantage more often.

Finesse: This attribute is a Character’s ability to get things done, despite obstacles.
Useful for anyone in high positions. Rulers, Ministers and Governors tributes more from their office. Magistrates are better researchers.

2.) Statistics: Statistics range from 0 to 100 and changes more frequently than Attributes.

Popularity: Popularity statistics represents the support a character has from the citizens and free men of the country, as well as from other characters.

Loyalty: Loyalty statistics is a Character’s steadfastness in support of the state and/or the current Ruler and can also be seen as the reverse of a willingness to betray a Friend or Ruler.

Corruptness:

Prominence: Prominence statistics represents the amount of attention and fame a character enjoys.


3.) Minor attributes: Family, Age, Wealth (Holdings / Loyal cohorts), Culture, Religion.

4. Character traits: Personality quirks, or personal characteristics which may give them advantages or disadvantages.


Ambitions, Faction Affiliation and Character Actions is not discussed in this post.

http://www.paradoxian.org/romewiki/Main_Page

 

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1.) Attributes: Attributes range from 0 to 10 but modifiers caused by Traits can cause Attributes to be higher than their normal range.

Martial: This is a Character’s ability to understand warfare and marshal his or her fighting forces in battle.

Charisma: This is a Character’s ability to influence others.

Finesse: This is a Character’s ability to get things done, despite obstacles.

By Tooltiping popularity one sees that '5' in charisma gives zero bonus or penalty to popularity and that each number above and under gives a 0,05 increment bonus or penalty to popularity. By observing battles one also sees that the difference in Martial between commanders gives a increment +0,5 bonus to the better.
But does anyone knows how Finesse and Charisma works for governors and envoys?

 

[malize]

Well I know that Charisma's of over 4 in Populist characters are "bad" if you are trying to keep them from gaining power.

 

[Achab]

By Tooltiping popularity one sees that '5' in charisma gives zero bonus or penalty to popularity and that each number above and under gives a 0,05 increment bonus or penalty to popularity. By observing battles one also sees that the difference in Martial between commanders gives a increment +0,5 bonus to the better.
But does anyone knows how Finesse and Charisma works for governors and envoys?

Governors stats are direcly applied when he commands his regional troops in a battle, the same way as for normal general. Otherwise his finesse, charisma and sometimes martial affect the likeliness of triggering events for building construction, cultural conversion and barbarian integration in the provinces they govern.

Envoys use charisma for diplomacy and finesse for intrique missions. The exact calculation of the chance for diplomacy and intrique success is kind of mystery for me. The displayed likeliness info when commiting these actions is often far away from reality.

 

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Well I know that Charisma's of over 4 in Populist characters are "bad" if you are trying to keep them from gaining power.

Ministers and Magistrates adds influence for their faction per charisma points, so any charisma on those is "bad" if you don't want them to gain power.

Envoys use charisma for diplomacy and finesse for intrigue missions.

Interesting. So, Charisma on Diplomacy and Finesse on Intrigue. I didn't know that actually but it explains a lot. Thank you.

The exact calculation of the chance for diplomacy and intrigue success is kind of mystery for me. The displayed likeliness info when committing these actions is often far away from reality.

Calculation and chance is most fun when it's the "mystery of the machine".
As long as I get the concept I'm fine.
(Charisma on Diplomacy and Finesse on Intrigue. Wow, you have blown my mind. I can't stress enough how that concept have passed me by. lol)

 

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1.) Attributes: Attributes range from 0 to 10 but modifiers caused by Traits can cause Attributes to be higher than their normal range.

Simplified you may say that a '5' in any attributes is mediocre and such character will do no harm or good. Some character roles also gives bonuses for each attribute point above '0' and some actions gives bonuses based on the difference between characters.
So to sum it up: 0 = abysmal; 5 = mediocre; 10 = Best of mankind; 10 < Son of "insert your god's name here".


Martial: This is a Character’s ability to understand warfare and marshal his or her fighting forces in battle.
Useful for anyone who have a military connection. Commanders with the highest score receive bonus in battle. Rulers, Ministers and Magistrates may give morale bonus. Governors defend better when sieged.


Charisma: This is a Character’s ability to influence others.


Finesse: This is a Character’s ability to get things done, despite obstacles.

This is getting fleshed out nicely.
Any comments on facts, feel or tone of the explanation?

 

[malize]

Ministers and Magistrates adds influence for their faction per charisma points, so any charisma on those is "bad" if you don't want them to gain power.

Also the Faction Head, that is what I focus on most since I don't let the populists get assignments to anything if I can help it

 

[Achab]

Finesse and martial can be improved by helping characters to fulfil their ambitions to become magistrates/ministers/commanders/governors. Using the "cursus honorum" in your game you are able to build reasonable pool of martial 11 characters, spiced by few 12s and maybe one two 13s per the show. Finesse 15 should be quite common, even 17s here or there, 18+ is pretty rare. But there is actually no limit upon how high you can possibly bring the finesse attribute as some coutries have specific missions which improve their ruler attributes, some of them grindable repeatedly.

 

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Finesse and martial can be improved by helping characters to fulfill their ambitions to become magistrates/ministers/commanders/governors. Using the "cursus honorum" in your game you are able to build reasonable pool of martial 11 characters, spiced by few 12s and maybe one two 13s per the show. Finesse 15 should be quite common, even 17s here or there, 18+ is pretty rare. But there is actually no limit upon how high you can possibly bring the finesse attribute as some countries have specific missions which improve their ruler attributes, some of them grindable repeatedly.

Lol, this is all Greek to me. All my characters just wants to become rulers.
I don't go into Ambitions, Faction Affiliation, Dynasty building and Character Actions at this time because I thought a guide would cover it better.

 

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1.) Attributes: Attributes range from 0 to 10 but modifiers caused by Traits can cause Attributes to be higher than their normal range.

Simplified you may say that a '5' in any attributes is mediocre and such character will do no harm or good. Some character roles also gives bonuses for each attribute point above '0' and some actions gives bonuses based on the difference between characters.
So to sum it up: 0 = abysmal; 5 = mediocre; 10 = Best of mankind; 10 < Son of "insert your god's name here".


Martial: This attribute is a Character’s ability to understand warfare and marshal his or her fighting forces in battle.
Useful for anyone who have a military connection. Commanders with the highest score receive bonus in battle. Rulers, Ministers and Magistrates may give morale bonus. Governors defend better when sieged.


Charisma: This attribute is a Character’s ability to influence others.
Useful for everyone as it affects Popularity directly. Rulers needs to be popular. Ministers and Magistrates give bonuses in their area of expertise. Commanders receives combat advantage more often.

Finesse: This attribute is a Character’s ability to get things done, despite obstacles.
Useful for anyone in high positions. Rulers, Ministers and Governors tributes more from their office. Magistrates are better researchers.

Eeh. Not really happy with some of the explanations but I post it anyway.
I'm pasting this and the Character role at romewiki.

http://www.paradoxian.org/romewiki/Main_Page

 

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http://www.paradoxian.org/romewiki/Category:Categories

Oy, that was really easy.
The wiki did all the program-stuff and I only did the texting bit.

(malize, I'm not sure why I thought I had to copy all the text in first and then edit it.
So how do I delete unnecessary or obsolete post?)

 

[malize]

http://www.paradoxian.org/romewiki/Category:Categories

Oy, that was really easy.
The wiki did all the program-stuff and I only did the texting bit.

(malize, I'm not sure why I thought I had to copy all the text in first and then edit it.
So how do I delete unnecessary or obsolete post?)

Which part?

 

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Which part?

(diff | hist) . . User talk:Kuhnrat‎; 12:42 . . (+1,524) . . Kuhnrat (Talk | contribs)
(diff | hist) . . N User:Kuhnrat‎; 09:41 . . (+5,011) . . Kuhnrat (Talk | contribs) (Created page with " '''Character traits:'''

Both those post are implemented as their own catogories.
I posted them before I understood that I could write them directly as categories.

 

[malize]

(diff | hist) . . User talk:Kuhnrat‎; 12:42 . . (+1,524) . . Kuhnrat (Talk | contribs)
(diff | hist) . . N User:Kuhnrat‎; 09:41 . . (+5,011) . . Kuhnrat (Talk | contribs) (Created page with " '''Character traits:'''

Both those post are implemented as their own catogories.
I posted them before I understood that I could write them directly as categories.

I'd already taken care of that (Character Traits) on the 24th made a note in your user:talk then so you'd know where it all went -- if you are satisfied with your new attribute pages then simply remove the attribute text from your user:talk page.

 

[Puritan]

Finesse and martial can be improved by helping characters to fulfil their ambitions to become magistrates/ministers/commanders/governors. Using the "cursus honorum" in your game you are able to build reasonable pool of martial 11 characters, spiced by few 12s and maybe one two 13s per the show. Finesse 15 should be quite common, even 17s here or there, 18+ is pretty rare. But there is actually no limit upon how high you can possibly bring the finesse attribute as some coutries have specific missions which improve their ruler attributes, some of them grindable repeatedly.

Your mileage may vary. In my experience characters with good stats usually want "death of a rival", "to have a son", or "to become ruler". It's almost as if these goals were added to prevent such power-gaming...


I'm also playing the rise of the ancients mod, where sacking characters adds tyranny, which increases rr. Everything increases rr it seems.

 

[Achab]

Your mileage may vary. In my experience characters with good stats usually want "death of a rival", "to have a son", or "to become ruler". It's almost as if these goals were added to prevent such power-gaming...


I'm also playing the rise of the ancients mod, where sacking characters adds tyranny, which increases rr. Everything increases rr it seems.

The objectives you mentioned are no obstacle for continuous character attribute growth.
"death of rival" ... you can help them there easily to make the rival dead, unless he is your own ruler/heir.
"have a son" ... high prominence is the key here, and if the char hits children maximum with daughters only there is that dagger icon again.
"become ruler" ... this ambition can usually be prevented from triggering in most of the cases, but if they get it anyway a short stay in prison should "reset" their mind.

Mods can have their own rules, so its up to you whether you buy the character advancement for its price. But probably nothing should stop you from petting up a general to martial 11 or more.

 

[Puritan]

"become ruler" ... this ambition can usually be prevented from triggering in most of the cases

How so?

 

[Achab]

Some basics on how to prevent the "become ruler" ambition.
For monarchies mainly, as in republics the chars wait till age of 42 with this ambition.

Characters of age 25+ are extremely vulnerable to get this ambitions when they are generals or governors.
a) Don't appoint a character to a general or governor if he has no ambition or who has an ambition which is to be fulfilled soon.
b) When appointing a character to general because he has the "become general" ambition and you want him to get that +1 martial then remove him from command the next day by unit reorganisation or disband his unit.
c) Appointing a governor with the "become governor" ambition is a real problem, especially if he fulfilled the "become minister" ambition previously. During his one year he is almost sure to get the "become ruler" ambition, so it's best to let your chars to fulfill the "become governor" ambition when they are under 25.
d) Wannabe rulers can be reset by imprisoning. Try to achieve that by sending them to intrique missions where the AI arrests them. It costs you money on ransom but saves you tyranny.

Characters from 18+ to 25 yrs of age are somewhat more resistant, as they have wider selection of ambitions when working as governors and generals. They usually want minor titles or to "become minister". So again let your wannabe governors fulfill their dreams when they are young.

Characters from 16 to 18 can get "become ruler" randomly as they hit 16 and there is little you can do to prevent it, as their ambition selection is limited. Just be sure to not give them minor titles until they hit 18 so they don't fulfill their ambitions and don't draw new ones.

 

[wolffrnd]

nm