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The Kingmaker

AlexanderPrimus
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Fulcrumvale said:
Sulieman and Basil seem like brothers, in an odd way. Neither of them should have ever been defeated by Thomas. In a weird way, I feel like a victory by Sulieman would avenge Basil’s memory.

Lol, it would be funny if Sulieman's warcry were "For Basil!" Lol. :rofl:
 

Lord Valentine

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Like most people here I root for Sulieman. He in my eyes was perhaps the most enlightened and sympathetic character in the AAR. However I somewhat feel that no good will come of this for both empires. The Turks will probably lose their great Sultan and sustain high casualties while Thomas position will be weakened when his incompetent management of the campaign becomes known, which might lead to more inner strife in the empire.

Temüjin would be rubbing his hands if he could see this. ;)

~Lord Valentine~
 

vanin

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Let's pray that Thomas is going down, but just because he is THE evil guy in the plot at the moment, he won't. Evil is always lucky :mad: .
The encirclement does look nasty though, the question is if the turkish forces can hurt the roman cavalry enough before the infantry arrives and (most likely) save Tomas' day. It all seems to be in the balance now :eek: .
 

Enewald

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Wowz! :eek:

Magnificent!

This aar surely gets my vote in the ACA awards. ;)
Just remember to advertise enough. :)

So the foolish emperor shall die at the hands of the turks...
Just like in the old good 200s.... Persia shall kill a lot of romans...

Any latin general would be horrified with these people that are calling themselves romans. :eek:o
 

4th Dimension

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I'm a staunch anti-Turk, but I have been slowly cheering the posibility of Thomas's death in the Turk campaign. It would have a certan romantic charm (him disobeying a dying parent wish, and getting killed for it), but my problem is a lot of good men will die because of his ego.

And I think it's too early to start making a nice pole for his head. I think he is one of those people that piss off a lot of people, but continue living, while good men die because of them. Also he does have a big force with him, of seasoned warriors, and they are all heavily armed while aonly ghulkam are heavily armoured (I doubit HA are), so things are even now. What I fear is that Thomas will take the Sultans head in 1 on 1 and then Tusrks will break.
 

Ksim3000

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I am cheering for Sulieman also in this round. Although I, like others on here, am Anti-Turk and Pro-Byzantine all the way, it's good to see that a respectable figure such as Sulieman is doing something Basil was not able to do: Finish off Thomas.

Who knows? Perhaps Sulieman feels an honour or something to Basil deep inside and that by killing Thomas in combat, it would be doing the memory of Basil a favour? Even though he's defending his own land, those two had a connection, an understanding.

Good update as usual and yes, update soon!
 

Estonianzulu

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Fear eh? Good... :cool:
 

Milites

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That was extremely well written. Really, some of the the best I've ever read.

Kudos to you for some magnificent beautiful writing!
 

General_BT

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Milites - Thank you! How long have you been reading the story? I'm always curious to hear what new readers (or old readers that have only just posted) have to say about things that went well, and things they think I can improve on...

Estonianzulu - Thomas is a bully, and one thing that all bullies are afraid of is someone else physically dominating or hurting them. Thomas is used to being known as the fearsome warrior, the one everyone runs from, so when Sulieman charges him head on... that's definitely what Sulieman will see. This bully-psychology is one of the things that makes Thomas tick...

Ksim3000 - As for avenging Basil, Sulieman's focused on defending his empire. He's wishing for the days of Basil, when he knew his opposite and he knew his opposite knew him. He's wishing Thomas was like Basil. Those two definitely had a connection, and its one of the pities of this timeline that Basil and Sulieman met once. Now sure, through Basil's reign they kept in contact, but as for face to face, there was just that one time in Syria.

4th Dimension - You've hit on the head Sulieman's biggest problem. Yes, Thomas will be encircled, but he's surrounded by heavily armored guard cavalry, well trained and seasoned in war. Sulieman's troops aren't as well armed and equipped, for the most part. And this is all assuming the thematakoi don't get their butts in gear and overwhelm the Sultan with sheer numbers. I'd say everything else considered, it doesn't look good for Sulieman if Thomas doesn't die...

Enewald - The Latins (as we'll see next update) are horrified of these people calling themselves Roman. "For crying out loud, they don't even use the Roman language of Latin anymore!" Drogo would say. As for Thomas dying, he's got himself in a tactical pickle, but remember, he does have a decent martial rating. Strategically and tactically he's horrendous, but he's an absolutely ferocious one on one fighter... if anyone can cut themselves out of trouble, Thomas could possibly do it. The question is, will he have an army with him if he does?

vanin - Thomas is the villain of the moment, but remember, Drogo hasn't shown up in a while, and he's still kicking about. As for evil being lucky, luckiness and ruthlessness often go hand in hand... :D

Lord Valentine - Good, that's what I was aiming for with Sulieman. If Basil was the chivalrous knight of the AAR, Sulieman was Saladin, the brilliant and chivalrous Muslim that confounds European expectations. The results for both empires depends really on how long the war lasts... Sulieman has taken the field with only part of his army - remember, most of his forces are still in the east, under his son Murad... a short war with little territory exchanged would benefit both... a long, protracted war would weaken both...

AlexanderPrimus - :rofl: While Sulieman might approve of such a warcry, something tells me most of the other Turks wouldn't! Thank you once again for your kind words - I'm still eagerly awaiting the next update of Chronicles!

Fulcrumvale - One thing's for, Sulieman beating Thomas would sure be karma for Thomas' "rot" line. :D

canonized - Fortunately for you (perhaps unfortunately for some characters in this AAR) beating up on Muslims has long been a pastime of Romanion and Latin Christendom. It likely won't stop with Thomas...

Leviathan07 - If Thomas makes it out but loses the veteran core of his army, he'll be left with an army of unsteady thematakoi - a prospect that'd make the Vataczes' and Kosacas of the Imperial army wonder if continuing the war is a good idea. If anything, however, look for some attempts from the central government after the war to shore up the thematakoi...

TC Pilot - If Thomas is defeated and feels alone, he'll be the one lashing out at real and imaginary threats... Mehtar will just be the instrument of execution. You're also forgetting that a weakened Thomas might encourage Sophie or Alienor to press harder for their sons' claims... and Drogo is still around, ready to play vulture...

asd21593 - Yes, Basil said not to invade the Turks, but Thomas told him to "rot." Now that he's free from his father's shadow, Thomas is busy running amok.

The_Archduke - Most bullies are that way because they are cowards at heart. They physically threaten those they know for sure are weaker than them to give themselves a sense of well being and to feel strong. Thomas is facing someone who has a fearsome reputation amongst the Romanoi, even twenty years on. Some flunkie who'll probably miss anyway isn't swinging a scimitar at Thomas - its Sultan Sulieman himself. That alone would make a bully like Thomas quake, even if the Sultan misses.

The_Guiscard - Next actual update (not an interim) you'll definitely find out the result!

Irenicus - I completely understand if you've abandoned the Romanoi, at least for the moment. :) I missed your opinions of the characters and their motivations, glad to see you back! I agree with you - Nikolaios would definitely be disappointed in Mehtar, not only because he's putting person emotions above the interests of the state, but that he's pining for someone that clearly doesn't reciprocate nor deserve the affection. Nikolaios made many mistakes, but at least he loved a man who loved him back.




ROME AARISEN, ACA EDITION

Before the latest interim, I’d like to remind everyone that once again, the AARland Choice Awards are here. I’d just like to take a moment before going on to remind everyone to vote, and vote often! Vote for categories you normally do not vote in, and read new AARs! This is your time to tell everyone in AARland who your favorite writers are, and encourage them to keep up their work! From AlexanderPrimus (Chronicles of the Golden Cross), to Snugglie (Lothrangia A Tale of Ressurection), to The_Guiscard (Furor Normanicus) and others that are simply too numerous to list, we have a huge array of excellent AARs in just the CK subforum, let alone the rest of AARland! So go forth, and vote!

So, in honor of the ACAs, as well as some of the recent milestones the AAR has reached, I thought I’d offer everyone another little teaser of events to come.


drafttriplemonarchstartslatecopy.jpg


September 17th, 1190

Xingqing, Xia Xia Empire, China…


“Majesty.”

Renzong, Emperor of Xia Xia sighed and shifted uneasily on his throne. It was days like this, when he’d been sitting on his beautifully ornamented but rock hard throne for hours, that Renzong felt all of his 66 years weighing on his knees and hips. He’d spent many days of his 51 years as the Emperor of the Xia Xia doing just this – he’d never liked it. He gave a rueful glance to his chief councilor, the brilliant and young Shan Bei.

“Yet another?” the Emperor complained. “It is already the eighth hour! I am weary, can we not send the rest of the petitioners off and come back to them tomorrow?”

“No, Majesty,” Shan clucked, like he always did. Renzong valued his new Chief Councillor’s advice – it was both more sage and useful than the foolishness spouted by his old advisor, Liu Liang. While Shan was no Zhuge Liang, he proved thoughtful and bright – even if he still clung to a ridiculous notion of protocol. “There is only one more petitioner, Majesty. It would be better if we discussed his claim before he came, however.”

“Very well,” Rezong muttered, shifting uncomfortably yet again till his sore legs lessened their complaints. “Who is this important man?”

“He says he is a messenger from Temujin, who now calls himself Genghis Khan, leader of all the Mongols.”

“He says?” Renzong muttered, before leaning back in his chair. “Let me guess, another frontier mess created by the meddlesome, incompetent Jin?”

He saw Shan wince slightly. Renzong’s opinion of the Jin had long been harsh, especially since somehow, despite the incompetence of their generals, the Jin had managed to defeat Xia Xia in war only five years before. Renzong had been forced to cede many of his claims on China proper – a defeat that still grated on his mind.

“Um… yes, Majesty. Temujin nine years before was the new chief of the Kerait, after the untimely death of the Ong Khan,” Shan whispered quietly. “The Jin felt a young, disorganized tribal leader would be less of a threat.”

“I see… so how did this inexperienced young whelp end up declaring himself Khan of all the Mongol tribes?” Rezong raised an eyebrow.

“Well, Temujin’s father was blood brother to Ong Khan,” Shan explained. When his father died by poison, Ong Khan took him in. If you remember, Majesty, Ong Khan was at this time causing the Jin Emperor disturbance, and so some five years ago during the midst of the Jin war with us, the Jin had Ong Khan killed. To keep the Kerait weak, they bribed several of the clans to push for Temujin instead of Ong Khan’s own son Senggum.”

Renzong raised an eyebrow. “This failed miserably because?”

“Well, Majesty, Senggum did not object. He claimed he’d seen a vision of some sort, and that he’d received instructions from the divine that Temujin was to rule.”

“Never discount the random dreamer and his effect on policy,” Renzong said bitterly. “Leave it to the Jin to immediately give up after their first plan went…”

“But, Majesty, the Jin did not,” Shan blurted out, before realizing his faux pas. “Pardon my speech, Majesty, I did not mean to interrupt!”

Shan started to go to kow tow, which made Renzong roll his eyes. The old Emperor leaned forward, and gently tugged on his councillor’s sleeves.

renzongandshanbei.jpg

Emperor Renzong (left) and his chief advisor, Shan Bei (right)

“Shan, do not fret. Continue.”

“Oh, um,” the young man awkwardly clambered to his feet. “Shall I continue?”

“Yes!” Renzong snapped in exasperation.

“ Oh, um, as I was saying, Majesty, the Jin did not give up. They next targeted a man named Jamuka, who was Temujin’s blood brother and one of the most powerful among the Mongols. They offered him gifts and the promise of the title of Gur Khan if he would break from Temujin, and he abjectly refused!”

“Loyalty where we least want it,” Renzong muttered.

“With the power of the Keraits, and the backing of Jamuka and others, this Temujin, in the space of perhaps 7 years, has united most of the Mongol clans south of the forests and the Great Lake. They have already raised him up to a title – Genghis Khan.”

“What does this ‘Genghis Khan’ mean?” Rezong asked. “I thought amongst these barbarians that ‘Khan’ was the title of their chieftans?”

“I am not sure, Majesty,” Shan admitted.

Renzong nodded, and sighed to himself. So, the Jin had failed miserably yet again in their barbarian border policy – something Renzong had seen numerous times in his long reign. If he hadn’t listened to Liu’s advice, if he hadn’t made war on the Jin five years before, maybe Xia Xia might have been in the position to launch a punitive expedition and topple the would be tyrant from his barbarous throne.

What to do? What to do…

Xia Xia sat to the West of the two other great Chinese empires. The Jin and the Song likely had nothing to fear from this new Mongol prince – they could sit secure behind their Great Wall, and continue their ruinous infighting. Xia Xia sat off to the West, exposed, and since the ruinous fight with the Jin, alone.

Yet, as Renzong leaned back and rested his aching bones, he knew Xia Xia had faced this before. Seemingly every generation, the Mongols had threatened to unify behind one leader. This time, that man was Temujin. Before, it’d been the Ong Khan. Before him, it’d been some man named Qabul. The previous would be rulers all had shared a similar fate, however.

The confederations they had built had lasted only a short while – a few years at most. The first sting of a military defeat usually broke them up. As Renzong thought back to his dealings with Qabul and Ong Khan, he decided this young Temujin would likely be no different.

So this Temujin now calls himself Genghis Khan?” Renzong asked. There was always bribery through titles – every Mongol khan wanted titles from one of the three imperial courts. “Shan, shall I tell this messenger that in return for him kneeling at my feet and pledging his troops to me, I, Renzong, Emperor of Xia Xia, will recognize this Genghis Khan’s claim to be leader of the Mongol tribes?”

“Ah,” Shan nodded approvingly, “the same offer we made to Qabul, and that the Jin made to Ong Khan?”

“Yes,” Renzong smiled. Thinking about the past had made him feel better about this new Temujin. “If the tricks have worked well, I see no reason to change them.”

“Very good, Majesty,” Shan bowed. “I am in complete agreement. Perhaps also offer him lands north of the Great Wall, should he ride with us to war against the Jin in, say, four years?”

Renzong nodded at the second idea. The Emperor of Xia Xia saw no reason to not sweeten the pot a little. If there was one thing that the Mongols shared in common, it was that they would let greed be their undoing. Renzong would bait Genghis with gifts and bribes, and use him as his predecessors had been used by other Emperors, and once he had outlived his usefulness, Renzong would discard him. Such was the way of things.

“Good,” Renzong said after a moment, before settling in on his throne. Now was the time to look regal and powerful, even if Renzong felt aching and ancient. “Send him in.”

Shan nodded to the omnipresent servants hidden in the shadows, and from somewhere within the palace an immense gong roared. With a creak and a groan, the immense brass and silver doors at the end of the audience hall opened up, and Renzong’s eyes went wide.

Normally when the Mongols arrived in Xingqing, there was a whole herd of them, all bearing trinkets, signs attempting to curry the favor of the Emperor. Yet now there stood a single man before Renzong, clad in furs and muddy boots, the smell of horse and sweat already flooding the Emperor’s nostils.

“What is the meaning of this?” Renzong looked over at Shan, confused. The insult was simply past Renzong’s comprehension. No one had dared to treat even the Xia Xia emperor as this! Surely there was a mistake, there was some poor jest, some…

“I come in the name of Genghis Khan, Lord of All He Surveys,” the man said crispy, in perfect Chinese.

Renzong still looked at Shan, confused. After a second’s awkward pause, his councilor looked towards the Mongol and hurriedly nodded.

“Renzong, Son of Chongzhong,” the man said, skillfully misusing the Emperor’s royal name and that of his father, “for peace, my master demands that you, Renzong of Xia Xia, must bow before the feet of my master and acknowledge my master as your lord and master…”

==========*==========
25649ss1.jpg

MONGOL THEME

So there’s a little teaser for all the Mongol lovers, and our first possible hint as to when the Mongols might arrive! This history diverges considerably from our timeline. In real life, Temujin faced a long, uphill campaign unifying the tribes, first from Senggum and then from his bloodborther Jamuka (this did not happen in OTL until 1206), while Xia Xia and the Jin in this immediate timeframe had been at peace. These discrepancies in how long the tribe’s took to unify and the political state of China will be my explanation on why the Mongols arrive further West at a different point in game than they did in real life…
 

The Kingmaker

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Wow, very nice BT!

I am thoroughly entertained. And I must say that the notion of an occasional Chinese interlude every now and then is a fabulous idea!

I'm looking forward to it.

Btw, kudos again on the excellent AAR!
 

Milites

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Again a very nice chapter!

Thank you! How long have you been reading the story? I'm always curious to hear what new readers (or old readers that have only just posted) have to say about things that went well, and things they think I can improve on...

I sort of just dropped by for a quick look so I have more than 80 pages left to read! Not that I complain the slightest, if only I were half the writer.. :(
 

unmerged(59737)

Strategos ton Exkoubitores
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Here comes the end of the world in China...

I really, really hope Thomas isn't around to see this.
 
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C’mon, General_BT, don’t tease us with Chinamen! Fluidly written update, but we don’t want to see Chinese Emperors insulted, we want to see Byzantine Emperors die a messy death. :D Consider the universal hatred of Thomas a testament to your writing and characterization skills.

I'm looking forward impatiently to the next installement, even though I’m quite sure that Thomas will come out ahed, dammit. :(
 

Ksim3000

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Oh man......just the interlude I've been waiting for! Man, the Mongols are gonna be sweet! Go Ghengis! Give Mehtar and co a run for their money! :p Still, I did read that the Mongols were quite generous if you did accept their demands. If you refused them, well, Genghis Khan pretty much allowed rape and pillaging to take place for refusal to submit. I take it Renzong and co will probably refuse to submit and end up following that path.....

Still, it'll be fun when the Byzantines and Mongols end up clashing......

Should Thomas survive, however, and Khan comes earlier....if Sulieman dosen't finish him off, Ghenghis Khan definately will do....
 

Estonianzulu

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Stupid stinky mongols, always mucking about with a good game of Crusader Kings.
 

unmerged(75409)

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I'm curious to see how it turns out. In my own game, I was disappointed to see that the Golden Horde never actually appeared. Instead only the Ilkhanate appeared, 20 years late, and was fought to a standstill by a coalition of Qarakhnids and the crusader kingdoms (which I had set up throughout Anatolia, the Levant and Arabia). No gigantic Empire spanning from Isfahan to the Mediterranean sea... no challenge except for the crusaders.
 

kalenderee

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Yeah, I have yet to have a formidable Ilkhanate or Golden Horde. The best the Ilkhanate ever did was to take a few of the Caspian provinces before declaring war on the Seljuks.

Also, that's a fun Mongol theme.