romanian origins

[Szordrin]

Originally posted by Dibo
AFAIR this thread was about the origin of the Romanians right?
I have some opinion on the subject, but before that, can Alexandru H. explain to me the "Vlacho-Bulgarian empire" theory once again, because I failed to grasp it?
There was some Cuman blood in the Assen dynasty, but to say they were Vlachs???

I think he said there's a teory that says that, but you'll have to wait for his response.

I don't take that one seriously, and i think i can safely asume that the vast majority of roumanians doesn't either !

And i have a question for you all: Did the inhabitants of the teritory that is curently called Romania called themselves "vlachs" or "valah" at the time?

 

[Alexandru H.]

Ok, time to bring this thread to its initial purpose...

Dibo, first of all, you should know that romanian theories about the southern vlachs are very moderate, unlike the transylvanian situation, because they are not inflicted by nationalism. Romania and Bulgaria have not a single territorial claim on each other, even the southern Dobudja, gained in 1913 and lost in 1940, was considered by the nationalistic movements as foreign land.
Ok, here are my thoughts....

Ist Problem. Southern Vlachs. Who were them, were did they live, accounts etc..

The first account on southern vlachs is a story concerning Kastamunitu Monastery in Athos, which mentions vlahorinhini in the VIII century. Their identity is pretty much proven because of a single word which is latin-based and seems to be part of their language. The accounts will continue with the killing of David, son of Sisman, in 976 by some vlachs and with Niculita, which becomes lord of the Thessalian vlachs in 980. In the next centuries, vlachs will be frequently mentioned by the byzantines.

Ok, they exist. Where did they live? From all the documents, it seems that vlachs dwelled a rather large territory (of course, they were sheep herders, so "dwell" is not the best expression, they did move a lot), meaning Thessalia, Thrace, Calcidic Peninsula, Epirus and Macedonia. Thessalia, for example, was referred to as "Great Vlachia".

In 1066 Kekaumenos labelled them as descendants of dacians and bessians, treacherous to the romans as their ancestors, who left from Danube to Macedonia and Epirus. So, vlachs knew their history and recorded their origins.

 

[Dibo]

Originally posted by Alexandru H.
Ok, time to bring this thread to its initial purpose...

Dibo, first of all, you should know that romanian theories about the southern vlachs are very moderate, unlike the transylvanian situation, because they are not inflicted by nationalism. Romania and Bulgaria have not a single territorial claim on each other, even the southern Dobudja, gained in 1913 and lost in 1940, was considered by the nationalistic movements as foreign land.
Ok, here are my thoughts....

Ist Problem. Southern Vlachs. Who were them, were did they live, accounts etc..

The first account on southern vlachs is a story concerning Kastamunitu Monastery in Athos, which mentions vlahorinhini in the VIII century. Their identity is pretty much proven because of a single word which is latin-based and seems to be part of their language. The accounts will continue with the killing of David, son of Sisman, in 976 by some vlachs and with Niculita, which becomes lord of the Thessalian vlachs in 980. In the next centuries, vlachs will be frequently mentioned by the byzantines.

Ok, they exist. Where did they live? From all the documents, it seems that vlachs dwelled a rather large territory (of course, they were sheep herders, so "dwell" is not the best expression, they did move a lot), meaning Thessalia, Thrace, Calcidic Peninsula, Epirus and Macedonia. Thessalia, for example, was referred to as "Great Vlachia".

In 1066 Kekaumenos labelled them as descendants of dacians and bessians, treacherous to the romans as their ancestors, who left from Danube to Macedonia and Epirus. So, vlachs knew their history and recorded their origins.

Yes, I know this part and agree more or less with it
But how about the Asen and Petyr rebellion, that formed the Second Bulgarian Kingdom?

 

[unmerged(15867)]

Originally posted by Vaclav Adam

The treaty between "Czechs" and Poles shows that the Hussites used "Czechs" as synonym for "Hussites," forgetting about Catholic Czechs. In fact, this treaty must have been between the

I found few quotes in one of my old kseros...

1415, Hus in Konstantia:

"When Bavars and Misnians went to Kingdom of Bohemia and were torturing and killing poor Czechs, I was crying over those crimes and i've said that poorer are Czechs than dogs and snakes, because they are not defending their own kingdom, having good justification. "

"I've also said and i am saying that Czechs in Czech kingdom should be according to laws, that is to God's law and natural law, should be first in officies, just as French are first in France and Germans in their countries. Just as Czech, not knowing German, in Germany as vicar or bishop would be worth as much as dog which can't bark, German will be worth the same to us."

(Seems like German living in Bohemia is not Czech)

I was digging through my books to find interesting quotes about nationalities. I will repsent them here, instead of creating new topic, sicne most of interested persons already are here.


One nice quote from 1423 which would prove your right to Silesia (plan of partition of Poland between Silesian princes and Sigismund Luxembourg and TO).... But also quotes as Glogow asked Polish king for protection and garrison... I also found one quote from Dlugosz who despised Silesians because they are "traitors" of Polish nation...

And one very nice quote about those common people who did not care about who was ruling them:

"Acta Capitulorym T II, nr 326 - clergy court in Gnesno. 1437"

"Master Tomasz, (titles follow) said that in that day Golabek wanting to offend him said following words: >>You are traitor of kingdom and you are writing treachorous letters to Cologne and you should not be living here<<"

So, anyway, since common people also were caring for their kingdoms, it seems that in CK that factor should be present also (yeah! We want go back to CK forum!)