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Jia Xu

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I wonder if there's a chance of the very brief 19th century Rome making a potential appearance in Vicky2 as a revolter. Even though it was quickly squashed by France it would be fun to try to use our resourcefulness as the player to try and save it from the A.I. or perhaps try to save it as a different country by intervening in the conflict.

Probably not, eh? Oh well, there's always mods.
 

Trovador

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Actually, it's very probable that, in certain conditions (i.e. government, ruling party etc) the Papal States will change its name to Roman Republic, with the black-white-red tricolour as its flag etc... and probably there'll be some kind of "Roman Commune" too, if there's a socialist revolution in the Papal States.
The new engine of Vic2 fully allows this kind of thing, as it was seen in a screenshot with "Republic of Britannia" instead of United Kingdom.
 

the_legion

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...Roman Republic, with the black-white-red tricolour as its flag
You think of the Roman Republic (1798–1799), he is talking about the Roman Republic from 1849 which had a green white red flag instead of black white red.

It has been stated, that the government types can affect flags and so on, so if it's not in it can be modded. And if we would make a thread on any state that existed more than 5 months within the period we can make this forum an awesome place :D
 

Delegate

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That'd be pretty cool. I'd like to try my hand at reinventing the roman empire :)
 

Sid Meier

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Actually, it's very probable that, in certain conditions (i.e. government, ruling party etc) the Papal States will change its name to Roman Republic, with the black-white-red tricolour as its flag etc... and probably there'll be some kind of "Roman Commune" too, if there's a socialist revolution in the Papal States.
The new engine of Vic2 fully allows this kind of thing, as it was seen in a screenshot with "Republic of Britannia" instead of United Kingdom.

ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!
 

wilcoxchar

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Yep. The Papacy is merely the reactionary face of Central Italian State #6.
Well, if the Papal States is taken over by socialist or anarcho-liberal rebels, it's not going to still be called the Papal States, now is it?
 

Naselus

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Well, if the Papal States is taken over by socialist or anarcho-liberal rebels, it's not going to still be called the Papal States, now is it?

The Papal Soviet Socialist Republic...?
 
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I suppose a papacy is going to be quite a boring type of government; no elections, no chambers (the Curia, perhaps?) and pretty much everyone is going to be 100% Roman Catholic and Reactionary : ]

It would be nice if there were heads of state/government, so you could actually associate with the leaders of the various political parties. They could start out (1836) as historical - like military leaders - and then just randomly generate thereafter.

I think that would add a lot of immersion, and would probably benefit an expansion at some point.

I also remember reading something yesterday about the suggestion that after an election result, you should be able to see which states voted for which party. That would be a nice addition.

Austen.
 

Naselus

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An 'electoral mapmode' maybe :)
 
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I suppose a papacy is going to be quite a boring type of government; no elections, no chambers (the Curia, perhaps?) and pretty much everyone is going to be 100% Roman Catholic and Reactionary : ]

It would be nice if there were heads of state/government, so you could actually associate with the leaders of the various political parties. They could start out (1836) as historical - like military leaders - and then just randomly generate thereafter.

I think that would add a lot of immersion, and would probably benefit an expansion at some point.

I also remember reading something yesterday about the suggestion that after an election result, you should be able to see which states voted for which party. That would be a nice addition.

Austen.

Well the popes had plenty of problems with liberal/nationalist uprisings within the Victoria period, so at the very least a fairly militant liberal minority ought to be present at the start.
 

Zuckergußgebäck

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Well, if the Papal States is taken over by socialist or anarcho-liberal rebels, it's not going to still be called the Papal States, now is it?

Nope. Now country names change together with flags in case of a revolution.
 

Orinsul

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I suppose a papacy is going to be quite a boring type of government; no elections, no chambers (the Curia, perhaps?) and pretty much everyone is going to be 100% Roman Catholic and Reactionary : ]

It would be nice if there were heads of state/government, so you could actually associate with the leaders of the various political parties. They could start out (1836) as historical - like military leaders - and then just randomly generate thereafter.

I think that would add a lot of immersion, and would probably benefit an expansion at some point.

I also remember reading something yesterday about the suggestion that after an election result, you should be able to see which states voted for which party. That would be a nice addition.

Austen.

Alot goes on with Papal politics, and this century was an important and busy one, I could see a Papal specific government that had 'elections' to use the parties mechanic to represent the different factions and schools.

And with a wealth of Decisions for the encyclicals, especially the important ones like the Rerum Novarum, if the thousands of historic events and decisions reach the Papal States then there ought to be alot to do or else itd be a task for mods as i doubting the game will even come with V1. let alone any of the lesser reforms.

And why should it be reactionary? For a fair chunk of the time covered by the game the papacy was the driving force of social & welfare reforms. one of the most progressive institutions in europe.

I would like to see the possibility of a Constitutional Monarchylike state too, where the Secular government is handled by a parliament while the Pope remains as head of state and the same in so far as the Church, but with the temporal duties being managed by a secular state under him.
There were certain movements towards such a thing and if italy is united by the Papal States and not liberal usurpers it should certainly be a possibility.
and the existing government with specialised Localisation/ instructions for the Papal State could take care of it. so itd be more or less easy to do
 

Snaake

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I suppose a papacy is going to be quite a boring type of government; no elections, no chambers (the Curia, perhaps?) and pretty much everyone is going to be 100% Roman Catholic and Reactionary : ]

... Except that they'll go to conservative once you repress the lower classes enough (by removing reforms to the "good old days" level). It'll actually be kind of interesting how well balanced the political ideologies are going to be in terms of election percentages, since pretty much all POPs start reverting to conservatism (preservation of the status quo), once they're happy with the amount of reforms. The crux of the issue is that no national population can agree on what the correct reforms are.


Orinsul: A constitutional papacy, eh?
 

Orinsul

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Orinsul: A constitutional papacy, eh?

Why not?
With the states states the papacy is two things, a temporal secular power and the Church.
I can see that if the Papal States expanded their borders, as any player setting out to conquer the world with them would do. They would need to either expand the ecclesiastical government to cope with the new territories which would be very difficult and a big change for the conquered people creating instability and the like.
Or expand secular government.
Now if the Papal States came to constitute the whole of Italy it would be hard pressed to manage.
The simplest and most likely solution would be to adopt a model not unlike that of a constitutional monarchy.

Where the Secular government, the day-to-day running of the Country, would be delegated to the hands of an elected parliament.
With the Bishop of Rome, Servus Servorum Dei, remaining the executive, Head of State, but the secular government being handled by a Head of Government and cabinet under him
Caesar onto Caesar.

its the only way i can see that a Papal State that either survives into the 20th century or outgrows its established borders would be able to avoid revolution and abolition. And from the sort of views held by the people who were become popes near the end there its the most likely too.
 

Nyrael

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Changing the history by making Papacy a decent state would make for a fun game. In case the vanilla V2 doesn't make it special, I hope that someone makes a mod that adds a bunch of decisions and events to make Papacy more interesting.
 

Brian Bóruma

Ard-Rí na hÉireann
17 Badges
Feb 3, 2004
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