Roman Empire should be a formable nation.

[Thravid]

I was kind of disappointed the Roman Empire was not in-game. I would make sense for it to be able to be formed by Byzantium, or possibly some other Roman Successor state. The files are there, I see they have their own EU4 based ideas too. It would be great if they exist.

 

[firecage]

Thravid, while I 100% love the Romans and their history, I would have to disagree with this. The Roman Empire doesn't have to be formed, it is literally already in the game. It is the Byzantium Empire. The Byzantium Empire was the Roman Empire.

Originally there was the Roman Kingdom(I believe before them it was Alba Longa or something?). After the monarchy was overthrown(and unfortunately a lot of information lost in fire), it became the Roman Republic. After Julius Caesar, it became the Roman Empire. Eventually it was split into a West Empire and an East Empire, yet, it was still the same Empire. It wasn't truly a full on divide the Empire into two separate Empires, it was more of an administrative division. Well, actually, it was 4 administrative Divisions the Empire was split into, but you get my point. But it was actually merely 2 halves of a whole. Though note, Theodosius I still ruled over both Empires before his death. He was the last one to rule over both.

But after the fall of the Western Division of the Empire, the Eastern Division still survived for a long time. And the terms Byzantium Empire and Eastern Roman Empire were actually only used AFTER it fell. At that time they were still known as the Roman Empire. Hell, at a time they even managed to regain about halve of the former Roman Empire's territory. Well, more like 2/3'rds, including Italy, most of the northern coast of Africa, the southern part of what is now Spain, etc.

So yes, the Roman Empire is literally in the game, but by the name of the Byzantium Empire.

 

[WeissRaben]

Thravid, while I 100% love the Romans and their history, I would have to disagree with this. The Roman Empire doesn't have to be formed, it is literally already in the game. It is the Byzantium Empire. The Byzantium Empire was the Roman Empire.

Originally there was the Roman Kingdom(I believe before them it was Alba Longa or something?). After the monarchy was overthrown(and unfortunately a lot of information lost in fire), it became the Roman Republic. After Julius Caesar, it became the Roman Empire. Eventually it was split into a West Empire and an East Empire, yet, it was still the same Empire. It wasn't truly a full on divide the Empire into two separate Empires, it was more of an administrative division. Well, actually, it was 4 administrative Divisions the Empire was split into, but you get my point. But it was actually merely 2 halves of a whole. Though note, Theodosius I still ruled over both Empires before his death. He was the last one to rule over both.

But after the fall of the Western Division of the Empire, the Eastern Division still survived for a long time. And the terms Byzantium Empire and Eastern Roman Empire were actually only used AFTER it fell. At that time they were still known as the Roman Empire. Hell, at a time they even managed to regain about halve of the former Roman Empire's territory. Well, more like 2/3'rds, including Italy, most of the northern coast of Africa, the southern part of what is now Spain, etc.

So yes, the Roman Empire is literally in the game, but by the name of the Byzantium Empire.

To be VERY precise, when Odoacer was crowned King of Italy, the Senate of Rome sent the Western insigniae back to Constantinople: the division was erased, because the Eastern Empire now held both titles - one of them without any land anymore. "Eastern Roman Empire" is an historical term, too: in Constantinople, "Roman Empire" or "Romania" were the terms used.

 

[Thravid]

Thravid, while I 100% love the Romans and their history, I would have to disagree with this. The Roman Empire doesn't have to be formed, it is literally already in the game. It is the Byzantium Empire. The Byzantium Empire was the Roman Empire.

Originally there was the Roman Kingdom(I believe before them it was Alba Longa or something?). After the monarchy was overthrown(and unfortunately a lot of information lost in fire), it became the Roman Republic. After Julius Caesar, it became the Roman Empire. Eventually it was split into a West Empire and an East Empire, yet, it was still the same Empire. It wasn't truly a full on divide the Empire into two separate Empires, it was more of an administrative division. Well, actually, it was 4 administrative Divisions the Empire was split into, but you get my point. But it was actually merely 2 halves of a whole. Though note, Theodosius I still ruled over both Empires before his death. He was the last one to rule over both.

But after the fall of the Western Division of the Empire, the Eastern Division still survived for a long time. And the terms Byzantium Empire and Eastern Roman Empire were actually only used AFTER it fell. At that time they were still known as the Roman Empire. Hell, at a time they even managed to regain about halve of the former Roman Empire's territory. Well, more like 2/3'rds, including Italy, most of the northern coast of Africa, the southern part of what is now Spain, etc.

So yes, the Roman Empire is literally in the game, but by the name of the Byzantium Empire.

From what I have heard, you have the East Roman Empire and the West Roman Empire. They both came from the Roman Empire. If put together they are the Roman Empire. Same with Cold War Germany, you have East Germany and West Germany. When they united and the wall fell, there was only 1 Germany. My history teacher used this reference.

 

[firecage]

Thravid. Well, As I said. The Roman Empire wasn't actually split into 2(or 4) different pieces and caused 2(or 4) different Roman Empires. There was only 1 Roman Empire which was basically divided into 2(or 4) Administrative Divisions. When the Western Empire fell, in reality only part of the Empire fell. The Empire lived on until the Eastern Empire eventually fell due to the Ottomans(...and the fourth crusade >.> Can't trust them bloody catholics for help). And besides.

What WeissRaden said above matched one point of mine, but I only mentioned a small point of it, when I mentioned Theodosius I. Though Weiss. Really? That is also a part I didn't know at all.

 

[Thravid]

But you said it yourself, they both had different kings(or emperors), how can that just be a different administration? That is a whole country on it's own. They where split. For good. Also, don't quote me on this, didn't the Western Roman Empire follow Catholicism, and the Eastern Roman Empire follow Orthodoxy?

 

[firecage]

No Thravid, they weren't split for good. Yes, different Emperors, but they remained a single country, just split into administrative divisions. And the Roman Empire had one type of Christianity after it adopted it. Well, there may have been a few cults like today, but we aren't sure. And do not forget, eventually there was a single Emperor once more, because frankly, they found out that their method of trying to get the Empire more organized didn't fair to well.

The thing is, the original Roman Christianity has a pentarchy of 5 Bishops. The problem came with the First of Equals, the Bishop of Rome. And yes, the Bishop of Rome is what is today known as the Pope.

 

[Thravid]

If they were only split in different administration divisions, why are they still portrayed as split on the maps? And have different Emperors? And where is their overlord? If it was still one empire, who is looking after the whole empire? Like, ALL of it. The Byzantine Emperor nor the Western Roman emperor had nobody above them. Also, that they had a single emperor once more does not mean anything. Spain and Austria had the same ruler for a time.

 

[Lee Saxon]

Interesting thread, historical details I didn't know.

I think a lot of things that happen in the game are a-historical, so there's no reason not to have formable nations that didn't actually form during the period. Roman Empire, Ireland, I'm sure there are many.

 

[t6.28]

To those of you that say Byzantium is the Roman empire.
While they might be in some historical sense, the question is, if you can still recognize them as that, if they had lost most of the core territory and don't even control Rome anymore.

There exists the Roman Empire as converter only nation. Maybe you could make that a formable nation for Italy and Byzantium?

 

[firecage]

t6, the thing is though, the capital was legally moved from Rome to Constantinople. Lets say, for whatever reason, Great Britain loses London. It would still be Great Britain. Or France loses Paris, it would still be France.

And yes, at that time, Byzantium was recognized as the Roman Empire, and later, the remnant states of it. Do not forget, at the start of the game, it is merely the remnant states of Byzantium. Byzantium at their height controlled more than halve of their former territory(including Rome), as I posted above.

And Lee Saxon, as I said. You literally can't form the Roman Empire, because it is already in the game. That would be a kin to England forming England, or Germany forming Germany, or heck, even the USA forming the USA.

 

[t6.28]

t6, the thing is though, the capital was legally moved from Rome to Constantinople. Lets say, for whatever reason, Great Britain loses London. It would still be Great Britain. Or France loses Paris, it would still be France.

But if Great Britain would conquer Denmark and then lose all their previous land, would they still be Britain? Even if they still are legally, I would say that they had almost certainly lost their identity.

 

[Kalandros-X]

There is a decision, if you convert your CK2 save file with the DLC whose name I forgot.

 

[Retherz]

Would make the basileus achievement harder!

 

[Anatur]

I never took the ingame byzantium seriously as the extension of the roman empire.

I think we should mention that constantinople did fall before the games timeline,when the "Latin" empire was founded,the ingame byzantium is just a fascade the Empire of Nicaea moddled after taking the city.

Also the whole byzantium speaking greek further underminds it.

I do think we should be able to reform into the roman empire.

A requirement should be to own all the provinces rome had at its preak,the logic being that any ruler who achieved such a feat could very well do what ever he pleased being an effective demigod after subjugating a continent.

For added flavor lets differentiate between the roman republic and the roman empire.

So if a republic took all the provinces it would turn into the roman republic while if a monarchy took them it would turn into the empire.

Such a nation should also get accepted cultures on all of the germanic,british,french,iberian,italian,south slavic,greek,turkish,arab and berber provinces as well as get ok religious tolerance for heretics and heathens.

After all it wouldnt be rome if it wasnt a melting pot of a hundred different peoples and thousands of different beliefs and it would never survive without being somewhat tolerant.

 

[Chlodio]

The Byzantium Empire was the Roman Empire.

IHMO that sums the thread no need for further discussion. I was going to argue with OP, but then I realized that that there will always be stubborn people who refuse to acknowledge the facts.

 

[Woifee]

ERE was Rome. They called themselves romans, all the others in these times called them romans. Byzantine Empire is modern terminology.

 

[Woifee]

ERE was Rome. They called themselves romans, all the others in these times called them romans. Byzantine Empire is modern terminology.

 

[Martin_Mortyry]

Normally I wouldn't care about adding Roman Empire to the game, since Byzantium really was the Roman Empire. But since we've already got the tag, why not enable it for everyone, not only converter users?

 

[firecage]

Normally I wouldn't care about adding Roman Empire to the game, since Byzantium really was the Roman Empire. But since we've already got the tag, why not enable it for everyone, not only converter users?

Martin, more realistically you would rename the Byzantium Empire to the Roman Empire, since even Eastern Roman Empire was a term which they only began to use after it fell.