Roman Empire formation a bit hokey

[unmerged(133972)]

Okay, so I went and, by working my tail off, reformed the Roman Empire.

A few things that I question, though:

1) Nobody is truly expecting the formation of Roman Empire as it once was (i.e. including Spain, France, England, etc.), but I know that there are certain provinces that give you event saying that you retook a former roman province (++ prestige), and I think that they should be considered De Jure territory once you reform it. I have no idea what they are, so I'm just going around capturing everything I can and hoping for the best.

2) By reforming the RE, you're also healing the E/W Schism (same territory to do both, basically), but the chief Patriarch remains in Constantinople when, in reality, a united Church would place the Roman Patriarch as primus inter pares as was the original point of the Pentarchy. That should be fixed. Also, speaking of this, it seems like there are still a LOT of Catholics around once the schism is healed. You'd think that a united church would have fixed that. Plus, the Pope still lives in Rome, albeit without any titles or estates, which doesn't really make sense since uniting the Church would have deprived the Pope of all authority (wouldn't it?). Besides making Catholicism a heresy, uniting the church doesn't seem to have many benefits.

 

[Bitt3rSteel]

Well, in my game catholicism is all but dead, only surviving as the state religion of scotland, but his popiness the pope prefers to sit in Rome, indeed. Wouldnt it make more sense for him to set up shop in the most powerfull remaining Catholic realm?

 

[Claudius8110]

Well, in my game catholicism is all but dead, only surviving as the state religion of scotland, but his popiness the pope prefers to sit in Rome, indeed. Wouldnt it make more sense for him to set up shop in the most powerfull remaining Catholic realm?

In my game i used the console to give him a church in catholic denmark, just because he should be granted refuge somewhere

 

[volcanopele]

1) I haven't gotten all of them in my current Byzantine/Roman Empire game but I have triggered Illyricum (eastern Adriatic coastline up to Carinthia), Africa (Tunis, Tripolitania, and Kabilya...), Cyrenaica (which is just Cyrenaica), Aegyptus (de jure Kingdom of Egypt), and Syria Palaestina (de jure Kingdoms of Syria and Jerusalem). I think I am missing Gallia, Italia, Germania, Britannia, Hispania, Mauritania, Caledonia, and Hibernia. In my current game, I only see myself finishing off Italia and Mauritania. Not sure about the others.

2) It makes since in a historical context, some rulers would accept the new patriarch of Rome: placed there by the new Roman Emperor, some wouldn't. Going back to my current game, when I took Rome, it completed both the requirements for "Restore Roman Empire" and "Heal Great Schism". So within the space of a week, Alexios II Komnenos went from being "the Great" to "the Saint" to "the Glorious" (though I guess this does eliminate confusion between him and his great grandfather). Anyways, at the time of Patriarch Bardas' investment, the HRE was embroiled in a 5 year civil war to put Duke Mathias of Aragon (the son of a deposed emperor), a civil war that I...encouraged... so that I could get a hold of the last remaining pieces I needed for "Restore Roman Empire". The HRE at the time, Theibold, accepted Bardas and became Orthodox along with nearly all of his loyal vassals. His rebellious vassals, the king of Lothringia, the Duke of Aragon, the Duchess of Brunswick, remained Catholic. So what had been a dynastic war in the HRE turned into religious one and it went on another six years, until I stepped in on the side of Theibold.

So I think the fact that Catholicism doesn't completely go away after "Heal Great Schism" makes the game quite interesting afterward. What had been a religiously united west became disunited, one side supporting the new Orthodox regime, the other side still supporting the Pope (in my game, he fled to his Spanish territories in Cordoba. As a result, most of Spain remained Catholic for at least 50 years before France, the HRE, and the RE gobbled the heretic states up). Though as Sitting_Duck says, the disunity doesn't last forever. In my game, it has been 62 years since the reconquest of Rome and only Lothringia remains Catholic along with a few scattered counts in the HRE, though about 10 years ago, the Catholic King of Lothringia became the holy roman emperor, which resulted in the only Great War between Emperors to date.

If anything, the one issue I have with the events surrounding the reconquest of Rome has to do with the Holy Roman Empire. If the Roman Empire is restored, and the orthodox patriarch of Rome supports the newly restored Roman Empire, why should there still be a "Holy Roman Empire" or the "Holy Roman Emperor"?

 

[Willem IV]

One thing that bugged me was that claims from the Byzantine Empire are not transfered to the Roman Empire.
Leaving my Brothers empty handed, but able giving them huge tracks of land, without fear of coming after mine Throne.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

The Byzantine Empire IS the Roman Empire. Literally. There was no break in political continuity from the prehistoric Roman kings in Latium to Constantinople in 1204/1453. The Medieval eastern empire was called the Roman Empire by literally everyone in the time period, and "Byzantine" wasn't used until some historian invented the term in the 19th century to describe a particular period of Roman history.

I understand that the in-game "restoration" is all about reviving the full legacy and glory of ancient Rome, but the way it's done is hokey (which isn't really used correctly in the OP). A series of events and/or decisions to reassert the modern Empire's claims to all formerly Roman territory would be great, but no new title should be created. The normal, Constantinople-based, already-present-at-game-start entity should just be called the Roman Empire, and all the events and decisions associated with the "reformation" of the Roman Empire should be allowed to happen to any holder of the imperial title who meets the prerequisites.

As for the HRE, it was only able to get away with calling itself Roman because the ERE was in no position to contest it. Assuming it were to conquer Italy, move the capital back to Rome, and reassert its sole right to call itself Roman, the relationship with the HRE would be cold at best, and, barring constant distraction elsewhere, involve a war or two to dissolve the title of the imperial pretender.