Rocket Artillery needs Tungsten....a bit weird

[panzerzombie]

I just discovered in the new WWW (22:07) that towed Rocket Artillery needs 2 Tun / 1 Steel......sorry that makes no sense.

Why should a simple system like that need tungsten, while e.g. Artillery-I ( where Tun is is undoubtly needed for hardened rifled barrels) only need one tungsten ?

Since its beta now and time for balancing I thought I point that out.

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

I don't think tungsten makes any sense for artillery either. If you want high-strength steel for the barrel or chrome plating to increase barrel life, that would be chromium. Tungsten was used for sub-caliber anti-tank penetrators (artillery was generally given regular AP or HEAT) and high-speed steels primarily (turbine blades, aero engines, also military factories for specialist tool steels but I don't think factory building needs any resources). Because sub-caliber penetrators were more necessary for lighter anti-tank weapons to maintain their combat effectiveness, a case could be made that lighter tanks and early tech ATGs would actually need more, not less, than heavier ones.

From realistic/historical perspective of course.

 

[panzerzombie]

You are right with the chromium for the barrel itself, but it seems that the main tungsten need was for the machine tools which in turn made the rifled barrels.

AT Guns ofc used the special and precious tungsten rounds, so germany faced the dilemma of producing AT-ammo or gunbarrels (tools).

 

[ingwe]

I may be wrong, but I thought both tungsten and chromium in game were effectively just any "rarer" metals like chromium and tungsten but also copper, molybdenum, etc. So I agree from metallurgical perspective that tungsten isn't a good fit, it may be a good fit based on game mechanics.

 

[panzerzombie]

I may be wrong, but I thought both tungsten and chromium in game were effectively just any "rarer" metals like chromium and tungsten but also copper, molybdenum, etc. So I agree from metallurgical perspective that tungsten isn't a good fit, it may be a good fit based on game mechanics.

Well I´m not arguing too hard about what rare exactly was needed and which exact amount, the thing is that it - from my pov - makes no sense that a historical cheap weapon system which needed no special material becomes artificially more expensive in terms of rares. It has to be balanced ofc so it won´t be a nobrainer replacement for regular arty, but since R-Art is less useful in defense and needs a lot more supply it is somehow already balanced ( or it was attempted anyway).

I´d like to have - especially as germany - a choice between expensive but accurate regular arty and easily produced inaccurate, supply hungry rocketlaunchers.
+ flavour.

 

[ingwe]

Yeah that is a very good point that somehow sailed over my head. Must be one of those days.

 

[Devout]

I am a little concerned with the overuse of tungston in general. It is needed for tanks, artillery, and anti-tanks. A shortage really prohibits a country from doing a lot of things. It seemed that aluminum and chromium were under used early in the WWW series. In WWW4 (?), they added more aluminum to airplane manufacturing, so that appears to be more balanced (relative to needs of steel, oil, rubber, etc).

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

I may be wrong, but I thought both tungsten and chromium in game were effectively just any "rarer" metals like chromium and tungsten but also copper, molybdenum, etc. So I agree from metallurgical perspective that tungsten isn't a good fit, it may be a good fit based on game mechanics.

Going on idea - I'd claim logical one - that chromium would represent alloy elements primarily used for hard, tough steels like armour steel and that tungsten would represent alloy elements primarily used for specialist steels (high heat resistance etc.) or just rare materials for specialist needs (electronics, radar etc.) it still wouldn't make sense for artillery.

You'd have to go with what panzerzombie suggested, that resource cost of building manufacturing capacity for a piece of equipment is included in that equipment's cost. In that case everything that involves machining of steel in it's production should probably need at least chromium to represent more standard tool steels.

 

[Chat]

I'm not sure of the construction of WW2 rockets for the rocket artillery but tungsten is typically used as part of the rockets themselves, particularly for nozzle assemblies. If they did, that might be a decent historical argument for why rocket artillery should cost more tungsten than artillery guns.

 

[Sernista]

One other part of it being used for tanks and AT (can't speak to artillery) is in the form of specialist armor piercing rounds - your APCR and so on. Given that platform production and ammo production are intentionally commingled, representing scarcity of a useful type of round with reduced production numbers makes some sense.

 

[panzerzombie]

I'm not sure of the construction of WW2 rockets for the rocket artillery but tungsten is typically used as part of the rockets themselves, particularly for nozzle assemblies. If they did, that might be a decent historical argument for why rocket artillery should cost more tungsten than artillery guns.

Hm, the earlier german 15cm rockets used a overcomplicated venturi system, they may have used tungsten but since the effect did not justify the construction effort they dropped it and simplified the later rockets. I doubt if the simple RS-82 ( consisting of a bundle of 7 gunpowder charges ) of the soviets - the biggest producers - used anything fancy.

 

[panzerzombie]

The next thing is: you need to research the 1940 arty subtech, then you research the ´40 towed Rocket launcher and then you need to research the mobile launcher which is a variant of the basic truck. So you need to research 3 different techs ( only 2 if you discount the ´40 arty subtech which you may want anyway ). And for what ? For an artillery variant which has better firepower and breakthrough but less defense, and needs to be produced ( 5 IC per piece, 1 Steel, 2 Tung ) afresh with low starting efficiency. For comparison Arty-II costs the same 5 IC and 2 Steel, 1 Tung. Hm doesn´t sound like a good deal atm.

Don´t get me wrong, I´m not on a crusade here ( would mod it anyway if I don´t like it) but I see it as a kind of a beta-duty^^

 

[Lither]

you see comrade
rocket is good against infantry
tungsten is good against tank
so pure tungsten rocket is good against everything

 

[panzerzombie]

you see comrade
rocket is good against infantry
tungsten is good against tank
so pure tungsten rocket is good against everything

....even against those pesky Nazi-Ufos from the moon^^

 

[GeneralPetrov]

Maybe they're orbital kinetic missiles.