Roaring 20's, Rising Sun, and the Red Tide (1920 - 1933)

[roberd]

1919 Wielkopolska Upsring(Posen and Gnizno to Poland)
17.06 1919 I Silesia upsring
19.07 1920 II Silesia Upsring
15.08 1920 Miracle by the Wisla (Poland should get 10 prestige point). Poland stop Red Army.
2.02 1921 Poland-France Alliance
2.03 1921 Poland-Romanian Alliance
17.03 1921 march constitution
3.05 1921 III Silesia Upsring(Kattowiz to Paland)
28.04 1924 Monetary reform
12-14.05 1926 coup. Poland had one-party system

 

[unmerged(26209)]

Yes, I could help you with your game. However, I would have to learn how to script from the beginning since I don't know a shit about doing it.

Maybe someone could ask the admin if we could get our own VIP-like forum for our project, or maybe we should get an other site for it (I could get a simple forum and site if that becomes an issue).

And if you want my help, can I please become the guy who is responsible for Russia and east Europe?

 

[roberd]

I forget about 19.03 1921 peace with Soviet Union. Poland should get Tarnopol, Stanislawow, Brody, Stryj, Pinsk, Brest and Grodno. And Soviet Union paid Poland
30 mln. Zlotych
1919 Treaty with German Danzing, Elbling, Torun and Bra...sth to Poland

 

[Elias Tarfarius]

Yes, I could help you with your game. However, I would have to learn how to script from the beginning since I don't know a shit about doing it.

Maybe someone could ask the admin if we could get our own VIP-like forum for our project, or maybe we should get an other site for it (I could get a simple forum and site if that becomes an issue).

And if you want my help, can I please become the guy who is responsible for Russia and east Europe?

HoChiMinh, this site by Harvard can tutor you on scripting and event writting. It does not have everything, but it has most of the important stuff that can help you help us . As to get our own forum, I'm not sure who I would ask to dot that. I would like to see more invovlement before we do something like that, though it would be nice and more organized.

 

[unmerged(26209)]

The game should begin directly after the signing of the Varseille treaty.

I propose you introduce the country descriptions discussed elsewhere on this forum, in order to explain what is happening.

After doing some checkup on the Russian civil war, I found the following:

The war wasa between the Red (communists under Lenin), the White (conservatists, monarchists) and the Green (anarchists, radical nationalists).

In Siberia and the region around Don, the Whites held much power. In addition, a radical Siberian Nationalist government (might be considered among the Greens, I suppose) held power in and around the city of Omsk. Also, the Whites had much power in Crimea.
The rest of Russia was pretty much Lenin's playground.

The civil war pretty much ended in 1920 with the defeat of the remaining Whites in Crimea.

Now, I think we should do the following:
1) Make Russia communist and give it the Soviet flag. This will be our Soviet.
2) Make the Whites rebels, and make an event that makes it so that if rebels control St Petersburg, Russia becomes "White". If they fail... well, they still have the possibility of making an independent Crimea.
3) Make a nation called Siberia, make them start with a few provinces, and make a series of events that makes it possible to create an independent Siberian republic if Siberia control certain Siberian key-provinces, and an event that annexes Siberia into Russia if Russia controls their capital, and/or they fail to achive independence within a certain time-limit. We could use the old nation tags from one of the Indian or German Minors (none of these will be in the game anyway, so we can recycle them for better use).
4) The great powers should get the ability to interfere (as they historically did).

And, as I proposed earlier: make Belarus start as a nation just like Siberia, but they start with only half their "real" territory, and most of these are occupied by Russia. If they take control over Minsk all their owned provinces and Minsk, they gain all their national provinces and peace with Russia. As with Siberia, we should use an old German or Indian tag.

Ukraine and Transcauscaia should start in the game. Both will get events that makes them eventually collapse. Transcaucasia, for example, could get a lot of rebellions, and eventually get the choice wether to join Russia or not (if they chose no, Russia should get the possibility to declare war).
As for the Ukraine, I'm not sure what should be done there.

The Finish civil war should be done, as already said, with events and rebels.

EDIT: I just thought of something: should we have uncivilized countries or not?

 

[Strategist]

The former colonies etcetera should be uncivilised I think, same to countries with a literacy lower then?? 15%?

 

[unmerged(26209)]

Imho, the following are the uncivilized nations as of 1919 (in no partucalr order):

Siam
Afghanistan
Persia
Oman
Nejd
Yemen
Nepal
Bhutan
Liberia
Ethiopia
Morocco

 

[Strategist]

Persia had changed into Iran. Don't know if Iran and Iraq should be uncivilised

 

[Zaan]

I thought I'd write something about the polish borders post versailles, as it is something complicated and for once I'd like to see Poland being modeled well in a mod. This all is assuming we start right after Versailles which is 28.VI.1919.

- At this time Poland should consist of the following provinces: Warszawa (the capitol), Lomza, Siedlice (Siedlce IRL), Spiff (Lublin IRL), Przemysl, Nowy Sacz, Tarnow, Krakow, Zator, Cieszyn, Kielce, Radom, Lodz, Kalisz, Skierniewice, Plock, Gniezno, Posen, Bromberg, Elbing, Danzig
- In the late summer Poland had a standing army of 600 000 soldiers, but since this is June I would say 400 000 standing other divisions either "in porduction" or ready to mobilise.
- An event should fire up not long after starting the game in which one would decide what policy of the eastern border to follow. Choice a would be incorporation and this would give Poland a whole slew of claims in the east (everything east from the Curzon line to the established border in the 20's), as well as trigger war with West Ukraine, Russian faction controlling Belarus, and wake a future event to call for middle Lithuania. Choice b would be a federation which would create a satelite Middle Lithuania, and trigger war to make W. Ukraine also a satelite in order to prevent form bolshevik invasion (I hope I'm being clear here)
- 18.III.1921 would be the event treaty of Riga. I see two versions here, one in which Poland won the war with the russians, and established a historical border, two where Poland would lose the war and be given option to "turn red" or die.
- Cieszyn should have the Czechosloavkian claim on it but only until IX.1919 when an event dealt by France of UK would decide if Cieszyn was to be Polsih (ai chance 60), or Czech (ai 40). This one is hard to simulate as the province Cieszyn was split almost exactly in half.
- Kattowitz at the beginnig should be German but an event in late 1919 should create an uprising (severe rise of militancy of Poles in Kattowitz and Gleiwitz). Since there was more than one I'm thinking of gradually increasing the militancy (Poland should have claims on aforementioned provs, to be sure the rebels defect) in late 1919 and late 1920. in March 1921 a poll was held to decide the fate of Upper Silesia, but it favored the Germans so PL should get an event in which it doesn't accept the poll (choice a), or accepts it (b, and loss of prestige and claims). Either way Silesia is still German so in may 1921 the militancy rises yet again, and finally in X.1921 the League of nations (or someone) would get a "fate of Upper Silesia" event in which it decides to split it (a, Kattowitz to Poland, Gleiwitz stay german, 85% ai chance), to keep it German (as things are, 10% chance), to give it all to PL (5% chance).
- The northern border also had changes but on a scale to small to simulate in Vic.

Anybody is willing to argue with this?

 

[Elias Tarfarius]

Great stuff! I was wonder what events and event chains we could come up with for Poland as things were rather active during this period in matters of territorial expansionism. I guess thats what 200 years under the Russian boot will do ya.

I love the idea of having the country descriptions pop up as events at the beginning of the scenario (using the ai=no/yes so it only appears for the human player). We could easily do that for this scenario and it would be helpful for those not familiar with the particulars of 1919-1933 history.

BTW, should we start the scenario in Jan. of 1919 (in this case we would have to make a pre-Versailles map, which would be very confusing in the case of post-war Eastern Europe, and then simulate the changes of the Treaty by events) or should we start it post-Versailles in the summer of 1919 (June 1 or something like that)? I'm leaning toward the latter.

 

[Strategist]

I think Jan. 1919, but changing the facts a bit, so you will get the treaty of Versailles in the start, and not creating Poland for example, but only giving it some of the german-provs. While it have the other parts of Poland in the start so you can play with Poland in the game.

EDIT: I am nearly ready with my first part of the German events. when they are ready I will tell you and add them to my .zip file. Then you can comment it and make such files, for Poland for example, too.

 

[Zaan]

I'm definately pro post-versailles scenario. Delving into Polish history and simulating it in Victoria is hard enough without the Greater Poland Uprising and acquistion of Eastern Pommerania... Beside, it's a very good anchor point, one every Victoria scenario should (and does) have.

BTW Can anyone good in German or Polish history clarify who should own Deutsch Krone province? Seems another one of those split-down-the-middle provinces. Oh and also the states in Poland should be fixed, right now about 50% of the land is Congress Poland and Galizien and the rest is about 5 small states...

 

[unmerged(26209)]

Poland should not begin with Danzig. The city was a free city under the LoN.

 

[Strategist]

Here you find a link to download the files I have at the moment, I included a German event file, though it's far from complete it is a start. I will create events files for other west-European countries too. HCM can you do Russia and it related countries? Zaan, maybe you would like to help us writing events for East-europe? ET: You would do America? You can use my suggested events on page 2.

click here
( right-click => then save target as ... )

 

[Zaan]

Poland should not begin with Danzig. The city was a free city under the LoN.

Well, Danzig in reality was a mandate territory of the entente members until 1920 (Remember that the League itself was established only in 1920 not 1919). We can simulate this anyway we find fitting. Perhaps give it to UK or France. In 1920 it should gain full independence.

 

[Elias Tarfarius]

click here
( right-click => then save target as ... )

Strategist, that link there just gave me the files for the military techs, not the German events.

 

[G-Klav]

Actually, there's a tag for Danzig, DNZ

 

[Strategist]

Strategist, that link there just gave me the files for the military techs, not the German events.

The german events are included in the file, look in directory events.

 

[unmerged(26209)]

Suggestion for Danzig:
Make it start as a satellite to the UK with guarantees from both France and UK. Then, make an event fire for Britain giving the possibility to give Danzig true independence, and if UK says yes (gaining prestige and perhaps some money) Danzig gets a one-choice event called "The free city of Danzig", making the satellite status go away, but the guarantees will still be in place.

 

[Strategist]

I also just updated my first post if one of you has any gamefiles remember to send them to me.