Roads to Power - Byzantine / Roman centered DLC features from the Steam page

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As it should be. The Romans deserve nothing less.

A bit worried about the lack of the Senate. But it is possible that will be added later, in one of the dev diaries
Byzantine senate was never very important.
 
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I am interested in seeing how Honorary titles and the Senate will play in this Estate bound gameplay.

Anybody who’s someone in Byzantium during our start dates has a title and his/her goal to is get better ones as they rise up the chain of Bureaucracy or Military, the higher the title the higher the salary(Roga) and social privileges like access to the Senatorial class(which was divided into 2 with the lower Half being called the sandle wearing Senators) closer seating to the Emperor during feasts and access to them, access to imperial celebrations, lead seals bearing your title. Offices, military positions and titles were inseparably linked.

1066 happens to be the peak of this system and the size/power of the civil bureaucracy before it came crashing down under Alexios Komnenos.

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Source btw is Politics and Government in Byzantium: The Rise and Fall of the Bureaucrats by Johnathan Shea.

And indeed if we’re getting cultural titles for councilor positions finallyyyy, they’ll need to be changed from CK2 that had titles instead of offices for some of them.
 
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wrong. byzantine senate mattered. Less than a Senate of Rome during the Principate, but up to the 12th century, the Senate had a say in the Empire's politics
From what I've read, courtiers and bureaucrats could be given titles that granted Senatorial status and could end up as powerful individuals. Also I've encountered emperors sharing plans with the assembled Senate in a consultative manner, but not in a way where the Senate ended up altering the plans. Have you got citations for the Senate acting as a body in a politically relevant way?
 
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According to wikipedia, it theoretically elected emperors, it could be consulted, and it could suggest legislation, and issue some edicts, but really nothing else.

Throughout Roman history, the senate actually never had too many explicitly stated written powers, even at the height of its power in the Republic. Rather, it was the bonds of Mos Maiorum, the unspoken rules of the Republic, that gave it respect and power and prevented politicians from using loop-holes to ignore them. When the Republic declined and Mos Maiorum broke down, the Senate became ignored. Eventually, in the Dominate of Rome and in the Byzantine Empire, the Senate became what it had been said to be at the start of Rome: a body that was meant to be consulted.
 
It sounds like Senator could probably just be an honorary title the Emperor can hand out for a bit of prestige for the holder. IMO if it doesn't actually have any governing power, then it's not important to actually represent.
 
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It sounds like Senator could probably just be an honorary title the Emperor can hand out for a bit of prestige for the holder. IMO if it doesn't actually have any governing power, then it's not important to actually represent.
yeah, eventually it resembled that- I think one emperor even created a "Senartix" title for his lover.
 
It sounds like Senator could probably just be an honorary title the Emperor can hand out for a bit of prestige for the holder. IMO if it doesn't actually have any governing power, then it's not important to actually represent.
Well more like a class, so a trait you enter once you get a high enough honorary title. Senator in itself was not a ranked title.

And you actually had to attend senate meetings, participate in all the ceremonies, holidays,religious events, public games, Triumphs, consent to the Emperors and Empresses Coronation, consent to the handing out of high titles and offices, all while wearing official Senatorial outfits. They were the first to know imperial policy in the Empire.

The senate could occasionally prove influential like when it came together to invite and peacefully let in Nikephoros II Phocas to be crowned against the orders of the Eunuch Regent Bringas.

So while it’s not a law making or governing body in itself, it was a long recognized prestigious and constitutional part of Roman Society that really cannot not be ignored if you want to represent the life of an elite in the Empire.

The phrase that the Emperor had to have the consent and support of the People, Senate and Army is a perfect representation of the entrenched position it had in Byzantine culture and thought.

Also that drip though

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Well more like a class, so a trait you enter once you get a high enough honorary title. Senator in itself was not a ranked title.

And you actually had to attend senate meetings, participate in all the ceremonies, holidays,religious events, public games, Triumphs, consent to the Emperors and Empresses Coronation, consent to the handing out of high titles and offices, all while wearing official Senatorial outfits. They were the first to know imperial policy in the Empire.

The senate could occasionally prove influential like when it came together to invite and peacefully let in Nikephoros II Phocas to be crowned against the orders of the Eunuch Regent Bringas.

So while it’s not a law making or governing body in itself, it was a long recognized prestigious and constitutional part of Roman Society that really cannot not be ignored if you want to represent the life of an elite in the Empire.

The phrase that the Emperor had to have the consent and support of the People, Senate and Army is a perfect representation of the entrenched position it had in Byzantine culture and thought.

Also that drip though

View attachment 1082661
Thank you for the information. Also, yes, the drip is very important.
 
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Well more like a class, so a trait you enter once you get a high enough honorary title. Senator in itself was not a ranked title.

And you actually had to attend senate meetings, participate in all the ceremonies, holidays,religious events, public games, Triumphs, consent to the Emperors and Empresses Coronation, consent to the handing out of high titles and offices, all while wearing official Senatorial outfits. They were the first to know imperial policy in the Empire.

The senate could occasionally prove influential like when it came together to invite and peacefully let in Nikephoros II Phocas to be crowned against the orders of the Eunuch Regent Bringas.

So while it’s not a law making or governing body in itself, it was a long recognized prestigious and constitutional part of Roman Society that really cannot not be ignored if you want to represent the life of an elite in the Empire.

The phrase that the Emperor had to have the consent and support of the People, Senate and Army is a perfect representation of the entrenched position it had in Byzantine culture and thought.

Also that drip though

View attachment 1082661
How much of this can/should be represented with gameplay mechanics, though? While the IRL Byzantine Senate was more than just an honorary title, I feel like in gameplay terms having it be as such would be accurate enough in representing the prestige that came with it.
 
How much of this can/should be represented with gameplay mechanics, though? While the IRL Byzantine Senate was more than just an honorary title, I feel like in gameplay terms having it be as such would be accurate enough in representing the prestige that came with it.
If it had to be stripped down I would make it a Trait. That would still have multiple events tied to it.

Infact it could be a society like thing that CK2 had.
 
Its always the right choice to add more Byzantium.
 
How much of this can/should be represented with gameplay mechanics, though? While the IRL Byzantine Senate was more than just an honorary title, I feel like in gameplay terms having it be as such would be accurate enough in representing the prestige that came with it.
My current idea is that the Senate can wait until there is an expansion involving parliaments, and then it can appear as the weakest form of parliament there is: mostly ceremonial, but it exists and thus has some potential to become more important if internal politics push it that way.
 
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My current idea is that the Senate can wait until there is an expansion involving parliaments, and then it can appear as the weakest form of parliament there is: mostly ceremonial, but it exists and thus has some potential to become more important if internal politics push it that way.
I agree with this.
 
Being able to play as a landless estate holder in the Byzantine system is super important IMO. For one, it means that if you're a governor and for some reason fail to procure appointment for your heirs that is not a game-over state. You don't have to all-or-nothing a lifetime to ensure you claim the seat of Emperor before you can get kicked off of land. Also of course means there might(possbily) be avenues to power without holding regional governorships.

And of course not to bring up a much debated topic in this goodly Roman thread, but as a China Enjoyer this system is basically perfect as a foundation for China in the future. Like, tailor-made. If they want to do a lightning sprint to China they could do a Nomads and China DLC in 2025 even, personally I don't think it's crazy to think that any more.

Curious if any other empires will get bureaucracy mechanics for now, I expect it's just going to be the Byzantines,surely they'd have mentioned otherwise, but who knows. Personally I think that's for the best, ensures the Byzantines get the flavor they deserve, while other empires can get flavor in their own DLCs. Though Legacy of Persia kind of covered the other obvious empire to get a bureaucratic system of government, so I'm not sure.

Agreed. What this basically means is that an enterprising modder could almost do a perfect 1:1 total conversion mod and make a Romance of the Three Kingdoms mod for CK3, and it would feel *exactly* like a proper RoTK game. I use to love playing as a custom ronin, going around, building up a support base, then pledge my loyalty to one of the factions, rising up through the ranks, and then deposing the warlord before declaring myself emperor or empress.
 
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I wonder how the game will determine who gets to be a prominent family within the administration and who gets to be just a simple courtier. Will it be like Merchant Republics in CK2, where the prominent families are auto generated and replaced whenever one dies out? Or, as emperor, would it be possible for you to give enough money to someone within the Empire so that they become a prominent family as a result?
 
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