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Emre Yigit

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I'm sure this must have been asked in the interim, but the only threads I could find with "Islam" in their title are from 2015. :)

I was just wondering what people's experiences were if they started off with, say, Justinian with this option enabled? Is it really as risky as all the warnings in the mod seem to suggest?
 

DeathLawlie

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I don't know for others, but I even tried a game playing the Prophet and his descendant (I always play this mod with historical setting for the Prophet) and I didn't encounter any problems.
 
Last edited:

Dakilla TM

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I enabled it for my game starting as Julius Nepos, and Islam did spawn. Although it was rather weak and the Muslims got crushed soon after, there were no stability issues or anything of that sort
 

Emre Yigit

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Thank you.
 

vicbus

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It works, but Islam will hardly thrive without player intervention. The Sassanids and ERE never seem to be at each other throats enough to get vulnerable for conquest. I am eager for a rise of Islam bookmark, where these conditions would be set in place.
 

Konstantine

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I played starting as Justinian and Islam certainly spawned, although with only 30k soldiers and posed no real threat to any of its larger neighbors.
 

Emre Yigit

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30K does seem a little low, even given the date. I'll double the spawn figures and see how it goes. But am only in the 530s, so it will be quite a while before I post the results.
 

RENEVATIOIMPERII

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The rise of islam capitalized on the aftermath of the long Byzantine-Sassanian war that took 20 years. Both powers were depleted which is why Islam was able to blitzkrieg through both empires. Without a similar war / event Islam will not be able to expand as it did in real life. The byzantines and sassanids cooperated together to try and stop the expansion of the Rashidun Caliphate but the alliance ultimately failed when the combined force was defeated.

It would be pretty hard for a war like this to just happen in a normal CK2 game, maybe with heavy scripting a war representing the 20 year war and the later alliance of the forces could be plausible but may be awkward due to the dynamic world of CK2 with civil wars and other factors. Basically, both nations would probably be eaten up by other nations before the rashidun caliphate expands.

It would be better to have a start date with the after effects of the Byzantine Sassanian wars pressuring both the Byzantines and Sassanids, and give the caliphate some event troops for the war against the Sassanids and Eastern Romans

It would fit in nicely with the eventual formation of the Thematic System that will replace the late legionary system (Event chains that slowly show the empire moving towards a Greek influence and the ERE loses the ability to use the legion system.)
 
Last edited:

loup99

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There will be a better event chain which is more powerful but also more dynamic whenever the beta phase concludes, and it is a prerequisite for that to happen since it was listed as an objective. When it comes to a Rise of Islam bookmark, it will at the moment come after the eventual 1.0.0, since we want to be satisfied with the period of 476-600 currently covered by bookmarks before expanding and tackling new challenges.
 

Dr.Feel

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If I start off by fast forwarding the year to 599 or even 600 and set the Rise of Islam on Historical, will it fire? I've tried it a couple times and nothing seems to happen at the moment. Is it after the year 600 that it fires?
 

DeathLawlie

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You will get no notification for it, even with historical setting (but with that you will be sure that it happen). If you pay attention to this region between 590-600 you will see the rise of Islam
 

G0dMars

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YMMV, but I find things tend to get a bit messy once holy wars are in play. It's like a free-for-all, and it messes with my need for order.
 

Dr.Feel

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You will get no notification for it, even with historical setting (but with that you will be sure that it happen). If you pay attention to this region between 590-600 you will see the rise of Islam
Thanks! Ill start earlier and try it.

Edit: Yep thats done it, Caliph "Azam" popped up!
 
Last edited:

aruon

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hey are there any major known bugs with dynamic or historical rise of islam? i started a new game as the viceroy of egypt in 480 (**** that guy needs to get laid FAST) with historical RoI just in case. but for my next game i will try out dynamic islam.


oh also, seeing as the next DLC will let you just flat out build your own damn religion, any ideas or plans for a "DLC dynamic Islam" for anyone looking to play as the Prophet? it would be awesome as hell to just completely DIY your own Islam.
 

Emre Yigit

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And, yes, to answer part of my own question, I had Islam fire in the 590s; they're successfully conquering everthing in sight with their (doubled) troops. The Caliph's infamy is at 100% and he just doesn't care. :)


hey are there any major known bugs with dynamic or historical rise of islam?

None in my game (with historical rise enabled).
 

DeathLawlie

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hey are there any major known bugs with dynamic or historical rise of islam? i started a new game as the viceroy of egypt in 480 (**** that guy needs to get laid FAST) with historical RoI just in case. but for my next game i will try out dynamic islam.

It's more about the fact that it's still WIP and so lack many mechanics. For example, the Prophet dynasty didn't get the sayyid trait so you have to give it with the console. And there is nothing that will split the united islamic faith between sunni and shiite, except that they will be a random Shia Caliphate Uprising.
Moreover the sunni faith have very strange and anachronic heresies (like Wahhabism or Salafism), but it have no way to appear so it's not really a big deal.
 

aruon

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It's more about the fact that it's still WIP and so lack many mechanics. For example, the Prophet dynasty didn't get the sayyid trait so you have to give it with the console. And there is nothing that will split the united islamic faith between sunni and shiite, except that they will be a random Shia Caliphate Uprising.
Moreover the sunni faith have very strange and anachronic heresies (like Wahhabism or Salafism), but it have no way to appear so it's not really a big deal.

huh interesting. so no schism (technically), no sayyids, not enough events and some nonsensical heresies. well hopefully 1, 3, and 4 can be dealt with soon enough. i really liked how the Aquilean event created a 3-way schism with the christians so i could see something like that happening with islam.
 

Neoman

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I think there should be a rules option where you can have a more historical Rise of Islam for if you're starting in the mid-500's or later where East Rome and the Sassanids start a little weaker or you can have a powerful Rise of Islam akin to the Mongol invasions to guarantee they steamroll North Africa, The Middle East and Persia if you're starting from 476.
 

Emre Yigit

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huh interesting. so [1]no schism (technically), [2]no sayyids, [3]not enough events and [4]some nonsensical heresies. well hopefully 1, 3, and 4 can be dealt with soon enough. i really liked how the Aquilean event created a 3-way schism with the christians so i could see something like that happening with islam.

[1] I think this can be creatively resolved, with some work. First the prophet would have to have no surviving male children; second, one would have to create a family of adult male relatives for him; third, one of his daughers would have to marry one of these relatives' sons; and fourth, the initial d_islam would have to be seniority succession only. These could all be shoehorned in. An event then granting a claim to the d_islam / e_arabia to the other relatives could then fire, plus some troops, leading to the schism. (Well, this is just my two cents' worth.)

[2] Sayyids can be easily be created, I suspect. I wonder if something like this would work:

Code:
character_event = {
    id = ABC
    desc = CDE
    picture = FGH
 
    trigger = {
        father_even_if_dead =
            {
                has_trait = the_prophet (or the_prophets_uncle)
        }
        NOT = { trait = sayyid }
    }
 
    mean_time_to_happen = {
        days = 1
    }
 
    option = {
        name = IJK
        add_trait = sayyid
    }
}

[3] Events can be added through time.

[4] One could easily remove the wahhabi and salafi and instead add the jabriyya, the murjia, the hashwiyya or the mushabbiha, etc
 

Emre Yigit

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In fact, you could go further, and make the prophet = The Prophet. Now I know that the usual inclination is against this - what happens if he turns into a hedonistic, cruel, greedy, satan-possessed lunatic? but again, it is very straightforward to write a recurring background event to check for all of these negative attributes (plus stress, depression, infirmity, etc) and remove them all. (Call it the "Grace of God" event if you like.) Give The Prophet extra health, raise the general opinion of him (by adding general_opinion = 25 or something to the the_prophet attribute) to reduce the chance of plots to kill him, make him strong, and you can even probably kill him off on the correct date through a death = { death_reason = death_natural } event on 8th June 632.