Richard Angevin - Duke of Bordeaux

[ErmineClad]

Maybe the blue provinces represent claims by the Duke? If it were vassals, I'd assume to see the same in the previous screenshot of the holdings of the King of England, unless that's a different mapmode, of course.

BTW, does "The Duchy of Bordeaux" sound strange to anybody else? I usually call that area the Duchy of Gascogne. Maybe that means that entirely new political units can arise during the game?

Well see I thought that at first, but then I thought it must be a different mapmode cause there are no shields in this one... but it still could be claims.

As for the second, I agree it does sound odd. Duke of Aquitaine or as you say Gascogne seems more proper. But maybe this guy started out as a only the owner of Bordeaux and slowly worked his way to the point where he was created a Duke.... Thus duke of bordeaux.

~EC~

 

[ErmineClad]

Just wanted to inform you he's up on the web now...

http://www.paradox-entertainment.com/Screenshots.asp?Page=CrusaderKings

/F

I seem to recall hearing you could only own 3 provinces personally and the rest went to vassals... it seems like this King owns alot of provinces. Maybe they dropped the idea of only personally owning 3... or maybe I'm just imagining the 3 provinces thing.

In a way I kinda liek the idea of only being able to own so much personally... like having a 2 for 1 thing. For every 2 you gain, the next has to go to a vassal. Kinda limits the global aspect of it, and requires you to deal with those pesky vassals.

~EC~

 

[unmerged(8913)]

In a way I kinda liek the idea of only being able to own so much personally... like having a 2 for 1 thing. For every 2 you gain, the next has to go to a vassal. Kinda limits the global aspect of it, and requires you to deal with those pesky vassals.

~EC~

I'm not sure that should be a universal rule, though. That wouldn't really hold true for the Byzantine Empire - just imagine the Emperor saying "Hmm, I just reconquered Syria and the holy lands after four centuries of Arab conquest and occupation. The first thing I'm going to do is give away 1/3 of that land to vassals whose loyalty may be suspect!" Not very realistic.... :wacko:

 

[ErmineClad]

I'm not sure that should be a universal rule, though. That wouldn't really hold true for the Byzantine Empire - just imagine the Emperor saying "Hmm, I just reconquered Syria and the holy lands after four centuries of Arab conquest and occupation. The first thing I'm going to do is give away 1/3 of that land to vassals whose loyalty may be suspect!" Not very realistic.... :wacko:

I would agree with that, but to me if the Byzantines don't have a different system for them in general, it won't be realistic either. It also won't be terribly realistic for Western Europeans to have a system where the king retains all of his conquest either.

So I agree completely, and push it further.... the Byzantines were not a fuedal European state, so don't model them that way.

~EC~

 

[Havard]

I seem to recall hearing you could only own 3 provinces personally and the rest went to vassals... it seems like this King owns alot of provinces. Maybe they dropped the idea of only personally owning 3... or maybe I'm just imagining the 3 provinces thing.

I can't remember seeing anything about a three-province rule...

 

[ErmineClad]

I can't remember seeing anything about a three-province rule...

Actually as I'm remembering it, this was a snowball thing about the royal demense, and there was some requirement that you couldn't control everything in the kingdom... only like a third of the fiefs maybe where I got the 3 from.

But regardless if that was a snowball thing about the kingdom - if such an idea ever existed - then it probably wouldn't matter now would it.

~EC~

 

[Havard]

Some limitations to the size of a demesne should be in, but I don't think the specifics are quite set in stone yet...

 

[Keynes]

Some issues/questions:

I gather that in the 1187 scenario (which this screen depicts?), Richard begins as "Duke of Bordeaux" But he is also heir to the throne of England. Does this mean that someone playing Richard can reasonably expect to obtain the throne of England? If so - how would this work in multiplayer (is there multiplayer - FAQ not clear?)? Ie one player starts as Henri d'Anjou; another as Richard; what happens when Henri dies. Does player 1 take over Richard and the former Richard player get some other Bordelais lord or another Angevin prince? Or does player 1 simply get eliminated?

 

[unmerged(547)]

I am not certain, but I don't think that CK will be multiplayer capable.

As far as inheriting England though, I would assume that the computer will most likely choose historically and name Richard as heir, but then again, maybe not and you'll have to knock off one of your brothers.

 

[unmerged(8913)]

I am not certain, but I don't think that CK will be multiplayer capable.

What gives you that idea?

Every Paradox game thus far has had multiplayer. I fail to see why this one would be different....

As far as inheriting England though, I would assume that the computer will most likely choose historically and name Richard as heir, but then again, maybe not and you'll have to knock off one of your brothers.

Well, here you're definitely wrong. Once the game starts, nothing will be chosen historically - the computer won't even *know* what the historical choice is. All will depend on the player's and the AI's actions. Henri will most likely not die when he did in history (if he did, it would be a coincidence). The game will chose the best heir at that time, considering all the subsequent actions by the player after the game begins.

 

[SavvyPlayer]

Some issues/questions:

I gather that in the 1187 scenario (which this screen depicts?), Richard begins as "Duke of Bordeaux" But he is also heir to the throne of England. Does this mean that someone playing Richard can reasonably expect to obtain the throne of England? If so - how would this work in multiplayer (is there multiplayer - FAQ not clear?)? Ie one player starts as Henri d'Anjou; another as Richard; what happens when Henri dies. Does player 1 take over Richard and the former Richard player get some other Bordelais lord or another Angevin prince? Or does player 1 simply get eliminated?

Henri and Richard would be part of the same dynasty, one would hope. In that case, wouldn't both characters be played simultaneously by player 1, along with John (happy to forego the formalities of primogeniture if the opportunity presented itself)?

 

[Havard]

I am not certain, but I don't think that CK will be multiplayer capable.

Oh, it will...

As far as inheriting England though, I would assume that the computer will most likely choose historically and name Richard as heir, but then again, maybe not and you'll have to knock off one of your brothers.

If there are human players in both Bordeaux and England it is a question about who the King of England designs as his heir...

 

[Endre Fodstad]

On another note, will REALLY those CK save files be convertible to EU2? It says so on Paradox's page, but that issue has had its flag up and down so many times its becoming difficult to keep track...

Not that the -200 relation with everyone and in possession of most of Europe and the Middle east starting position is looking all that attractive, but still...

 

[Havard]

On another note, will REALLY those CK save files be convertible to EU2? It says so on Paradox's page, but that issue has had its flag up and down so many times its becoming difficult to keep track...

There is nothing as of now to indicate that it won't be possible.

 

[Keynes]

If there are human players in both Bordeaux and England it is a question about who the King of England designs as his heir...

So if the human England player designates Richard as his heir, what happens to the two human players upon Henri II's death?

 

[Havard]

So if the human England player designates Richard as his heir, what happens to the two human players upon Henri II's death?

Dunno, really. We'll have to test that before the game is released i guess

 

[SavvyPlayer]

So if the human England player designates Richard as his heir, what happens to the two human players upon Henri II's death?

Here's what I read: Henri II + Richard = one dynasty (Plantagenet), one player. If England is controlled by another dynasty/player (say Norman, not Plantagenet), that player would have to be childless, facing the end of his/her dynastic line in order to pass the crown to a Plantagenet. Sounds like a game-over scenario for that player.

If I am off-base here, can you reframe your question in the context of playable dynasties for clarity?

 

[Johan]

On another note, will REALLY those CK save files be convertible to EU2? It says so on Paradox's page, but that issue has had its flag up and down so many times its becoming difficult to keep track...

Not that the -200 relation with everyone and in possession of most of Europe and the Middle east starting position is looking all that attractive, but still...

The conversion system will be in. I've been working today on it, and it will be a button called "EXPORT" which will make an eu2 eug file out of the current game.

And its a tad bit difficult to have a large centralised state in CK

 

[Havard]

Here's what I read: Henri II + Richard = one dynasty (Plantagenet), one player. If England is controlled by another dynasty/player (say Norman, not Plantagenet), that player would have to be childless, facing the end of his/her dynastic line in order to pass the crown to a Plantagenet. Sounds like a game-over scenario for that player.

If I am off-base here, can you reframe your question in the context of playable dynasties for clarity?

The question Keynes raise comes from the opening up to play holders of minor titles. Richard, Duke of Bourdeaux here is also the designated heir of his father, the king of England; so if both are human controlled they would each play parts of the same dynasty.

 

[SavvyPlayer]

The question Keynes raise comes from the opening up to play holders of minor titles. Richard, Duke of Bourdeaux here is also the designated heir of his father, the king of England; so if both are human controlled they would each play parts of the same dynasty.

So one dynasty can be played by mutiple players... that's not at all how I understood the model, but very interesting. One possibility in answer to K's question then might be that Henri's dynastic line continues through John, while Richard begins a new line (albeit extremely short-lived ).