RGO vs. Factory

[Lord Finnish]

I, yet again, begun a new game, this time as Prussia, and historically united Germany which was a good achievement, since my previous games had ended in total defeat by 1843.

I want to dominate Europe and be power no. 1, and for that I need economy.

Let's say that my capitalists build a gun factory in Berlin, and I don't got crafters. I split my 80,000 farmers into 5 groups and turn them to crafters and put them in the factory. But now my RGO doesn't have any workers in it! Thus, I come in a tricky decision where I must put my famers/labourers (I don't dare to convert anything better than them) to factories or to RGO. Which is better choise?

Plus, what are clerks for?

 

[Orm]

I, yet again, begun a new game, this time as Prussia, and historically united Germany which was a good achievement, since my previous games had ended in total defeat by 1843.

I want to dominate Europe and be power no. 1, and for that I need economy.

Let's say that my capitalists build a gun factory in Berlin, and I don't got crafters. I split my 80,000 farmers into 5 groups and turn them to crafters and put them in the factory. But now my RGO doesn't have any workers in it! Thus, I come in a tricky decision where I must put my famers/labourers (I don't dare to convert anything better than them) to factories or to RGO. Which is better choise?

Plus, what are clerks for?

Clerks can work in factories too. Clerks have 50% higher production efficiency than craftsmen, but there is a restriction, there can only be 2 clerk POPs per level of factory, and never more clerks than craftsmen. Clerks are also very efficient producers of research points, so they're very good to have.

As for RGO's versus factories, it depends quite a lot on technology level and comparative market values.

 

[Eärendil]

I usually make sure to have enough farmers/labourers to make sure I produce enough raw materials to keep all factories running. In the early game, as efficiency is low you need a high RGO to factory ratio, but in the late game you pretty much only need one farmer/labourer per province. Mind that some RGOs like high value coal or precious metals are very profitable and I usually don't convert their labourers into factory workers.

 

[unmerged(94026)]

I never touch the labourers in Rheinland. Those coal mines are 5.0~7.5 level, meaning highly profittable.
It depends on the benefit of the RGO. A poor mine is not worth keeping. Just convert its POP. Usually my priority is grain farm and orchard. I always convert farmers in low level farms first (like in Berlin). Grains and fruit are so cheap. Just take a look at the benefit of the RGO and make the decision.

PS: DoW China and she will give you Taiwan Island. 2*2.5 tea RGOs. Not bad. Or DoW Japan and ask for the suphur or silk. Those are highly proffitable and, more importantly, densely populated.

 

[ArneHD]

Grain, fruit, fish and cattle are in my experience rarely worth the POPs. Mines above 5 are just about always worth putting people in. You also want to preserve certain resources like iron, sulfur and coal so that you are not importing it at least.

As for clerks: 3 Craftsmen to every two clerks. I like making the two biggest of the five in the factory to clerks since they also provide research and are your main source of research.

 

[ComradeOm]

Let's say that my capitalists build a gun factory in Berlin, and I don't got crafters. I split my 80,000 farmers into 5 groups and turn them to crafters and put them in the factory. But now my RGO doesn't have any workers in it!

Well yes, your POPs can't work in the fields and the factories at the same time

The important points have already been covered (crucially the 3:2 POP ratio in factories) so I'll just note that with the exception of a few core industries (such as steel and lumber) its rarely worthwhile rushing into industrialisation in the early game. An agrarian economy, with the Mechanical Production tech, can be more profitable for the first few decades

By the end of the game though I'll aim to industrialise all provinces that aren't producing the following - iron, coal, sulphur, timber, precious metals

 

[Lord Finnish]

Does a unit of 10,000 workers in a RGO/factory produce more than a unit of 5,000 workers?

 

[OHgamer]

Does a unit of 10,000 workers in a RGO/factory produce more than a unit of 5,000 workers?

there is a breakdown based on population size but it is graded, not strictly proportional to POP size.

this is to ensure that smaller industrial nations such as Belgium, Netherlands and Sweden have the potential, under the direction of a good player, to rise and become a top power, which in the early years would be impossible to try if there was a strictly proportional link between pop size and production.

From Vickywiki

POP production efficiency by size

1 – 499 POPs 33% efficiency

500 – 19,999 POPs 50% efficiency

20,000 – 49,999 POPs 75% efficiency

50,000 – 100,000 POPs 100% efficiency

thus smaller POPs are actually more efficient than larger ones, and if you split say a 50K pop into a 40K and 10K pop, the 2 pops will actually produce more than the single 50K pop due to the cumulative nature of the efficiencies.

It's counterintuitive, yes, but for gameplay with smaller nations and the ability to turn smaller nations into great powers (one of the favorite gaming strategies of players) absolutely vital.

 

[Meanmanturbo]

I have found (I might be wrong) that when you play a nation with a shortage of pops to man your factories it is better to keep a 2:2 ration between crafties and clerkies. Taking that third craftsman and putting him in another factory might allow you to put in another clerk in your production. And since clerks are more productive this would lead to an overall more productive nation. I play mostly nations like Sweden and Belgium , for them this is in my mind esential. Any thoughts?

 

[Eärendil]

Yeah, that's exactly what I do when playing most nations.

 

[TheLand]

And since clerks are more productive this would lead to an overall more productive nation. I play mostly nations like Sweden and Belgium , for them this is in my mind esential. Any thoughts?

Sounds sensible.

Bear in mind that Clerks also have other effects:

- they can vote if your franchise is Wealth, because like clergy and officers they are in the middle strata (& they tend to be liberal)
- they contribute to education costs; the extra RPs they produce come with a cost in money!

 

[Meanmanturbo]

Sounds sensible.

Bear in mind that Clerks also have other effects:

- they can vote if your franchise is Wealth, because like clergy and officers they are in the middle strata (& they tend to be liberal)
- they contribute to education costs; the extra RPs they produce come with a cost in money!

True that. But when you are industialized to that level factories are usualy (almost always) more then profiteble enough to pay for the education cost. Though as Sweden having a starting litteracy of 80 % makes me drown i RPs by the 1880:s (though it makes clerks even more efficient). I'm so used to playing nations with primarily insuficiant pops to man factories as the main obstacle, so my opinion might be scewerd

 

[th3freakie]

The important points have already been covered (crucially the 3:2 POP ratio in factories) so I'll just note that with the exception of a few core industries (such as steel and lumber) its rarely worthwhile rushing into industrialisation in the early game. An agrarian economy, with the Mechanical Production tech, can be more profitable for the first few decades

Hm... how can you not rush? My (very) limited experience with Brazil is that if you wanna get the railroads tech you'll have to plow your way thru a bunch of other industrial techs, so when you create a capialist pig or two *wink OHgamer* they''ll very quickly spam a bunch of factories.

PS: Ho my, I'm kinda discussing Vicky mechanics here am I not? I mean, even if at a superficialy superficial level... Yup. I've reached the 10th Hiden Circle of Geekness Hell. Do I get a free T-shirt? o

 

[Meanmanturbo]

Hm... how can you not rush? My (very) limited experience with Brazil is that if you wanna get the railroads tech you'll have to plow your way thru a bunch of other industrial techs, so when you create a capialist pig or two *wink OHgamer* they''ll very quickly spam a bunch of factories.

PS: Ho my, I'm kinda discussing Vicky mechanics here am I not? I mean, even if at a superficialy superficial level... Yup. I've reached the 10th Hiden Circle of Geekness Hell. Do I get a free T-shirt? o

The early idustry techs, practical steam engine, mechinized production, clean coal are all VERY good for resource production, especialy the first two ones (don't remember if Brazil has any coal). What I usually do is research industry untill I reach early railroad then switch to army and culture for a while.

What I think OHgamer means is that you shouldn't put your faith in early factories making much profit, especialy if you have to import, just becouse your capitalist builds them doesnt mean you have to staff them...And empty factories means that no more will be built Spending money promoting clerks and craftsmen early might get you in trouble with angry liberals as well.

 

[unmerged(74032)]

To get a decent economy running you will have to do quite a lot of micromanagement. You should promote as many POPs as possible to clerks on a 1:1 ratio to craftsmen to max out your research points. You should also promote POPs to capis and let them reinforce your infrastracture and economy.

@th3freakie: No more free T-shirts available. The last one was just given away to that ugly red guy wit the long horns.

 

[RELee]

The last one was just given away to that ugly red guy wit the long horns.

 

[Orm]

Ron Perlman?

 

[unmerged(74032)]

Ron Perlman?

Yes. Compeletely unrelated to the paradoxian way of life but I like him in the new Hellboy movie a lot.

Nice pic RELee made me smile.

 

[RELee]

Tim Curry has him beat.