Reworking Warfare: The Megathread

Reworking Warfare: The Megathread

  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Grand Historian

Pretentious Username
77 Badges
May 13, 2014
5.225
9.142
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
(Well, it’s been a fair amount of time since the last mega-thread I did – time for another.)

It’s become rather apparent over the years that warfare in EU4 has… lagged behind the rest of the gameplay somewhat. In fact, despite the game being driven by warfare, warfare proper hasn’t really ever gotten a comprehensive update, in spite of much clamor on the forums to rectify such a state (clamor I make no secret of having avidly participated in). There’s fair speculation that the next update will focus on warfare or touch upon it – if so, perhaps this is not the most fortuitous time for me to make this thread, but I would regardless like to get many collected ideas out on how warfare in EU4 might be improved.

New Unit Types and Manpower Division

The first, and perhaps largest, suggestion I would like to make is for the division of unit types. As this is a very vague suggestion, it requires a multi-faceted response.

The first step to this is the most radical: the division of units and unit categories into professional units and conscript units. This would similarly result in a division of the manpower pool, with a conscripted pool and a professional pool – obviously the professional would be smaller than conscripted pool (I’d personally place it at 1/7th of the conscripted). Now, the question obviously falls to what to do with the division: I’ve seen an oft requested division in infantry, but I will go one step further and advocate for dividing the current three unit categories (Infantry, Cavalry, Artillery) into six: Conscripted, Professional, Skirmisher, Cavalry, Cuirassier, and Artillery, or three different Infantry categories, two Cavalry, and then the lone Artillery. While all these units would use the same unit categories (and thus fire/shock/morale pips), each would be awarded different levels of shock and fire from tech. Additionally, for this I would recommend shifting Morale from a universal gain to per category gain, in the same vein of fire and shock – this would accomplish not only professional units being able to deal more damage (though in this aspect it should even out a bit late game), but being able to last in battle longer than conscripted units. Finally, the units should have different unit sizes; this will be crucial to a few of my following suggestions below, but for now I’ll simply focus on what I believe to be an ideal scaling and the immediate benefits:

Conscripted: 1000 Conscripted Manpower/10 Ducats
Professional: 500 Professional Manpower/25 Ducats
Skirmisher: 750 Conscripted Manpower/15 Ducats (2-3 flanking range to Inf’s 1-2, high fire-low shock)
Cavalry: 750 Conscripted Manpower/25 Ducats
Cuirassier: 500 Professional Manpower/35 Ducats
Artillery: 1000 Professional Manpower/50 Ducats

Now, what would variation in the unit sizes offer? The first and most obvious is that it will allow for much more dynamic gameplay: there would be more intuition to building armies and would allow for more varied playstyles owing to the breakup of unit categories (and the boons that various modifiers give to them); additionally, it will make Artillery spam more difficult due to shifting it to the smaller manpower pool that it shares with two other categories. It also allows for significantly more historical gameplay, with armies closer to both the sizes of armies early on, and for allowing distinction in army development: for example, China’s overwhelming manpower advantage can be better represented now with the overwhelming amount of their army being conscripts, while the small armies of medieval Europe would be able to have a larger professional component early on (for example, Feudal Monarchies would give +25% Professional Manpower Modifier rather than +10% Manpower Modifier, while EoC’s ‘Boost the Officer Corps’ would give +20% Professional Combat Ability rather than +10% Inf. Combat – though I believe all such general modifiers can stay at lower values).

Different manpower pools and unit categories themselves would allow, via value gain from tech and other modifiers from events and decision, for a proper representation of historical occurrences like levee en masse, the decline of heavy cavalry (Cuirassier) and the emergence of light cavalry, the refinement of skirmishers, the emergence and expansion of professional troops, etc. Finally, this can help benefit tall and small nations: the latter would have a higher proportion of professional units to their overall army, and the former will be able to afford to have an almost entirely-professional army. Both, naturally, are boons to defensive gameplay.

Mercenaries

(Special thanks goes to @Bella Gerant for coming up with the original idea that eventually metastasized into this.)

This is something that has been in need of an overhaul for a very long time, and frankly it shows. Drawing upon CKII as a base, I would first like to advocate that mercenaries should no longer be able to be recruited as individual regiments, but instead act as coherent, preset companies of units you can recruit, usually only 3000-9000 thousand strong. Much like in CKII, these companies would be tied to geographical regions, with their preset unit composition being dependent on region. These companies cannot be merged with other armies or have individual regiments removed or disbanded from them (you may only disband the company as a whole), and they come with their own leader (generated with 40-60 AT), who does not count towards the leader pool, but can also not be fired or reassigned; whenever a company’s leader dies, he’s automatically replaced. Finally, a mercenary company is immediately recruited to the province you recruit them in, rather than built over time, and you can only recruit a region’s mercenary company if you own or occupy a province in that region. This is where the similarities begin to break down.

Mercenaries Companies will only make use of professional troops: meaning the 500 strong Professional and Cuirassier regiments, and the occasional Artillery regiment; meaning a only 4000 strong company of mercenaries will have much more punch than it would currently ingame. However, rather than replenish naturally over time via cash, mercenary regiments will instead replenish their ranks via another manpower pool: mercenary manpower. This pool functions the most radically from all others, however: it is not one attached to your nation, but instead to each region geographical region. The way a region’s mercenary manpower is calculated is that the limit is the sum of the total professional manpower provided by an entire region’s manpower dev (not factoring autonomy/estates/territories/etc.). The monthly regain rate is then the sum of that divided by ten.

Allow me to make an example that’s likely easier to follow. As of 1.24, the Italy region has 148 total manpower (assuming I counted correctly). 148 x 250 – the base amount of manpower each point gives you – is a total of 37000 manpower. Then let’s use my previous example for professional manpower and divide that by 7 – the result is 5285 professional soldiers (which would leave only 31715 conscripts to go to the other pool). That is mercenary manpower pool for the region at start, and its limit (until the manpower dev of the region changes). Then divide 5285 by 10: the monthly regain rate of that region’s manpower pool would be 528. Now say there are 6 different active (employed) mercenary companies from Italy, each 5000 strong but having been reduced to 4000 each: all those companies would draw from Italy’s merc manpower pool until the 6000 troop difference has been settled. But if 1 of those companies is from the Spain region, then it would draw its 1000 troops from Spain’s merc manpower pool, while the remaining 5000 would come from Italy. Of course, all of these are just numbers that should be changed as seen fit, but I believe the principle is good.

Next would be cost: the upfront cost of hiring a mercenary company would be the total sum of its contingent units as you would hire them as normal units, divided by 1.25: so a 5000 strong mercenary company, with 7 Professional Regiments and 3 Cuirassier Regiments would cost 224 ducats upfront (sum of 280/1.25). There would be no +1% increase in upfront cost for recruitment to discourage spamming – as Mercenary Companies are now scarce and can be competed for – but rather the +1% increase in cost is instead shifted to maintenance: in addition to the +150% Maintenance Cost that mercenary units, every month you keep a mercenary company under employment, its maintenance cost is increased by that 1% - so keeping mercenary companies around indefinitely is also not viable, especially in peacetime.

Professionalism works differently for Mercenaries as well: all mercenary regiments will be stuck at 40% Professionalism – they can’t be drilled, but their professionalism will never decrease due to casualties, reinforcements or natural decay. Additionally, a mercenary company will not be able to make use of any of the professionalism actions that a normal army would (supply depot/refill garrison/etc.), but the individual regiments would still gain the military benefits of professionalism. However, being self-equipped and trained and not having loyalty to any one state, they do not benefit from any of the military modifiers of their employing state beyond Mercenary Discipline (the only way they could get another modifier would be via general traits). As you’re recruiting whole companies rather than individual regiments, the hit to professionalism would have to be reworked – either by setting it as a flat variable (-2.5% per company?) or by being the total sum of all regiments in a company.

Finally, Mercenary companies will automatically update their unit classes to the latest prescribed model, whenever the first nation in the region they’re assigned to reaches the tech level that unlocks it. So, for example, for those few mercenary companies that would have an artillery component in their company, they would immediately gain it upon the first nation in their region reaching Mil Tech 7, or would attain Men-at-Arms when someone in their region reaches tech level 5. This idea could be further expounded upon to have the unit sizes and composition of companies change with the tech levels, should the idea of large numbers of late-game mercenaries floating about be undesirable.

As these are some rather significant changes, I would also like to lay out my ideas for how the various modifiers regarding mercenaries should be altered in light of them.

Mercenary Cost/Maintenance: The first would be merging the Mercenary Cost and Maintenance modifier into a single one, so that it not only reduces the upfront cost, but the maintenance cost – as maintenance now increases over time and you have to pay lump sums, I think this is well justified (especially as Mercenary Cost is non-existent outside of Admin ideas). As this merger would leave a blank slot in Admin, I would recommend it get filled in with Merc Discipline.

Mercenary Discipline: I would like to advocate for two changes to Mercenary Maintenance. First, as it will be the only military modifier of the employing nation that will affect the performance of mercenaries in battle, I would recommend doubling the amount one can get it in to +10%. Secondly, to have Mercenary Discipline also increase the Professionalism of Mercenary units in the employ of a nation; so that if you have +10% Mercenary Discipline, Mercenary companies in your employment will have 50 professionalism instead of 40.

Available Mercenaries: Like the other two modifiers, Available Mercenaries will now have two effects: the first is that, rather than now acting how many mercenaries you can recruit compared to your forcelimit, is that now AM acts as the Reinforcement Speed for Mercenaries (as they would be unaffected by any Reinforce Speed modifiers from their employers not tied to provinces or maintenance). The second would be that it also increases the amount of mercenaries your provinces contribute to the mercenary pool of a region – so having +25% Available Mercenaries will not only have your Merc regiments reinforce at +25% faster, but also give a region’s merc pool +25% Mercenaries from provinces you own in it.

The total sum of all these changes will leave mercenaries for the better, I think. To cap it off with a short summary:

Mercenaries will be less costly upfront/short term than a professional army of their size, but will be more costly long term, and keeping them employed non-stop will no longer be viable. All as it was historically.

Mercenaries will truly no longer be limitless, drawing from their own manpower pools and being concentrated into a few companies. Additionally, nations now have to compete for them, making merc spams difficult and monopolizing them hard.

Between being exclusively professional soldiers, having pre-established professionalism that won’t tank, and getting higher amounts of discipline early on, complete with coming with generals that will usually be more/as competent as most early generals, and always having the cutting edge military units, mercenary companies will have notably more punch early on but will lag behind once the Morale, Combat Ability, and superior discipline, professionalism and generals of national forces starts to come into play. As they did.

Between regional recruitment, the Merc Discipline in Plutocracy, and the new ways you recruit them and the lump sum involved, Mercenary Companies would more heavily favor tall and/or republican nations.

Altogether, I think these changes will make Mercenaries more intuitive, historical, and engaging.

Garrisons, Garrison Capacity and Captains

Now, this brings me to something else I’d like to cover; Garrisons. It’s still relatively well known that playing defensive, is, frankly, not viable. I’d like to offer a solution that I think would help change that.

The first aspect of this is to completely overhaul how garrisons are generated and function. Currently garrisons are determined purely by the fort size – which carries with it a steep maintenance cost – and automatically fill up over time, and both those can be affected by scarce modifiers that can be found here or there if you’re the right nation. You can finally sortie out the garrison if it comes under siege, but it costs valuable mana and it’s usually not going to be effective. It’s functional, easy to understand, but not very deep and one of the things holding back defensive warfare from flowering, in my opinion. At least, in its current state.

The first step to rectifying this would be to change Garrison Size to Garrison Capacity. In this, fortifications would no longer automatically come with a garrison; rather, you would have to recruit regiments into a garrison. The basic formula of how Garrison Capacity is calculated would still be the same as Garrison Size – 1000 for every fort level – but instead it can be filled up a la carte. For example, say there’s a Fort with 3000 Garrison Capacity; then it can hold six professional regiments, or two professional regiments and two conscripted regiments, or a professional regiment, a heavy cav regiment, a conscripted regiment, and an artillery regiment, etc – I’ll cover the importance of choice later.

To recruit units into a Garrison, you have to pay an upfront cost like normal, but rather than having all the troops available at once, the individual regiments instead reinforce monthly (as it does now) – additionally, Garrison Growth should also serve as a modifier on the upfront cost of recruiting a regiment (which, combined with being able to actively recruit regiments, would make it actually useful as an idea). Instead of having a Fort Maintenance based off of Fort Level, Fort Maintenance should instead be drawn from the total cost of the units garrisoned in it – whereas mothballing a fortress only clears out the manpower (and maintenance costs) of the conscripted garrison regiments, while halving the maintenance costs and manpower of the professional units. Finally, the old Garrison Size modifier should instead be overhauled (I.E, generally increased) to accommodate Garrison Capacity; for example, +25% Garrison Capacity with a 6000 capacity fort would allow for 1500 more capacity. There should also be some more events, decisions and provincial modifiers that allow for increases in local garrison capacity (for example, many of the Knights’ events can give them more Garrison capacity in Rhodes in addition to Fort Defense, etc.).

The next component of this overhaul to Fort’s functionality would be an entirely new mechanic: Captains. Captains would be leaders you can hire to command the fort; both in a siege, assault and in a sortie. They would be leaders of a sort; you can hire them for 25 Mil from the garrison panel of any singular fort, and while they don’t count towards the leader pool, they cannot leave their fort and suffer a 0.6 roll for their pips upon generation. Additionally pips work slightly different for them; while Fire and Shock reprise their generic roles on the battlefield, Maneuver and Siege take on an entirely different meaning for them: every pip of maneuver a garrison commander has increases local hostile attrition by 0.25, and Garrison Growth by 5%. Whereas every pip of Siege increases Defensiveness and Morale by 5%.

This plays into the final part: redone sorties and assaults. Put bluntly, both are dull and flat. First, to recommend two changes; tone down the defensiveness bonuses across the board, and instead have it double as a defending garrison’s discipline value during sorties and assaults, rather than overall discipline. This would allow for a significant boon to defensive/tall gameplay. Secondly, give garrisons morale, and instead have the traditional siege method of waiting out a garrison contingent upon reducing the garrison’s total morale to zero (rather than the current timer method. Not unlike CKII). Garrison’s newfound strength would, however, be offset by the fact that they would not have access to Professionalism.

Sorties would no longer require Mil points to launch; instead it would require your garrison to have a Captain, who leads your forces on the field of combat: being in open combat, any cavalry participating in the siege (either as part of the garrison or the besiegers) will be able to join. Assaults should be transformed into a full-fledged battle; the battlefield would have a base combat width of three, while every breach will give an additional pip of combat width to the battlefield (up until 3, as it currently is), making overwhelming the garrison somewhat easier. As this would be an assault on the walls, cavalry would not be able to participate, while attacking artillery suffers -50% fire damage (defending artillery remains unhindered). Additionally, without a breach in the walls, the garrison gets a -33% Shock and Fire Damage Received bonus (together I think this is all more intuitive than the current way breaches are handled).

Professionalism and Army Doctrine

Professionalism was a nice addition. I liked the idea behind it – unfortunately I don’t think it was properly integrated with Army Tradition. First, I would like to recommend a slight reassignment of the bonuses associated with both (for the sake of space I’ll just list out what I believe to be the optimal setup in spoilers):

100 Army Tradition:
+10% Army Morale Recovery Speed
+25% Army Morale
+100% Army Drill Gain

100 Army Professionalism:
+25% Movement Speed
+25% Siege Ability

0 Army Professionalism:
-20% Mercenary Cost
+20% Available Mercenaries
+20% Looting Speed

100 Drilled/Regiment Professionalism:
+20% Fire/Shock Damage
-20% Fire/Shock Damage Received

In this, the AT Siege Ability is merged with the Army Professionalism Siege Ability, while Manpower Recovery is removed due to Professionalism’s late ability to regain troops from disbanded regiments, while it gains drill to make it more interactive with Professionalism.

Movement Speed was moved from subunits to the overall army, as it would better represent the formalization of supplies, routes, chain of command and communication, etc. And as an army only moves as fast as its slowest unit, it’s more effective there anyhow.

Looting and Mercenaries go hand in hand.

By the inverse, fire and shock have been moved from overall army professionalism to double down in individual units, as it’s here that individual unit drilling comes to shine.

Secondly, I would like to advocate that a unit’s Drill should not naturally decay during a war: not only is it a bit odd that armies wouldn’t take time to drill during wars, but the professionalism of a regiment gets hit enough whenever it needs to reinforce, so having it passively degrade over time during war is just kicking the player while they’re down. Additionally, I would like to advocate that the base gain of monthly drill be nerfed – perhaps down to 0.4? – at the cost of having professional units have their drill set to 20 (I.E Professional/Cuirassier/Artillery start out with 20 drill and will never dip below it), in addition to the aforementioned no passive decline during war.

Finally, I would to advocate for one final new feature: Army Doctrines. Between the manpower division, new unit categories, and mercenary and garrison overhauls, there’d be more need to offer the player the ability to specialize the focus of their military. There would be two ‘slots’ for possible doctrines you can adopt for your military; the first unlocked when you get your Professionalism to 40% and the second at 80%; you lose a slot should your professionalism dip below a slot’s threshold.

These slots can be filled with a card that provides two bonuses and one malus; say, for example, one card emphasizes professional soldiers, giving you +10% Professional Combat Ability and +25% Professional Manpower at the cost of -33% Conscript Manpower. States gain access to different cards as they advance through military tech; while your first card choice will be free when you unlock a slot for the first time, any subsequent shifts or readditions will cost you 25 Army Tradition; otherwise these cards cost nothing to maintain. Obviously retooling your army doctrines will become easier and more common late game when there’s a larger abundance of AT about, and the need to readjust strategies to meet particular opponent’s.

Overall I think that the combination of these changes will make Army Professionalism and Army Tradition somewhat better integrated, will give a little more sensibility to the modifiers floating about between them, and offer the player more control over the way they want to steer their military. Additionally, it will make drill somewhat more sensible.

Army and Naval Maintenance

(Thanks to @Dakkadakka127 for coming up with the idea for doing something with maintenance.)

Army Maintenance is fine as it is, but I feel it has the potential for a little more depth; so for this, I would like to present a simple proposal for a simple change to it: have the Army Maintenance slider max out at 200% rather than 100%. Now, 100% would still stand as is: your army’s morale maxes out there, and it’s what your maintenance slider jumps to when you declare war. However, going above 100% will start to give your army bonuses, scaling up to 200% - I envision the benefits looking something like this maxed out:

+10% Army Morale Recovery Speed
+20% Movement Speed
+25% Reinforce Speed
-25% Land Attrition
+50% Army Drill Gain

This will both help compliment and make tall and defensive gameplay more rewarding without not being worthwhile to wide or blobbers – it will, additionally, act as a moneysink that is not punitive. By a similar vein, Naval maintenance can also be extended as such to give:

+1 Yearly Navy Tradition
+5% Ship Durability
-25% Sailor Maintenance
-25% Naval Attrition

Transport Capacity

Transports, frankly, need to be axed – as long as they persist, the issues Naval Warfare, the AI’s handling of it, and the number of troops that can be shipped across the world via boat will not be able to be fixed or improved. As I’m aware this is a rather bombastic declaration, I’ll obviously explain myself.

First and foremost: having a dedicated transport category is not only completely ahistorical, but it leads to utterly gamey strategies: piling tens of thousands of troops onto a transport-only fleet and having it sail safely across to anywhere while your actual fighting ships are busy keeping your opponent’s navies and ports tied down. This not only makes naval invasions and transporting tens of thousands of troops across the world stultifying easy and generally risk free, but it also means that the AI will not be able to manage it nearly as effectively; they can’t game the system as well as a player, and they’re prone to grouping all of their ships into one or a few large doomstacks. Naval doomstacks themselves aren’t an inherent problem, per se, but when the metagame surrounding them promotes a strategy of there not really being a risk in having a lot of transports and most of the battles just dissolve into a slug-throwing match between heavies and the occasional galley, there is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Secondly, it’s been a well-established axiom that not only AI has been ineffective at managing AI naval invasions, but the sheer number of troops you can transport halfway across the world is a little… unrealistic and out of the timeframe, and it fails to represent one of the main limits on European colonization during this period. Nevermind having to transport all those troops on specifically designated transports.

So, say Transports are axed; what then? Well, the next and most obvious step would be to not have a dedicated transport class, and rather have the three remaining ship classes all carry certain amount of troops. Keeping in mind the different unit sizes now, I’d like to propose the numbers below:

625 Transport Capacity for a Heavy, 375 for a Light, and 500 for a Galley.

This would offer numerous benefits:

1): It would be an effective bar on overseas empire-building without being hardcoded or inherent: shipping 20000 troops around the Cape of Good Hope won’t be an easy endeavor anymore, but also wouldn’t be impossible.

2): Maneuvering large armies across inland seas would still be viable. Between the cheapness of Galleys and their moderate transport capacity, large scale naval-invasions across the Mediterranean, Baltic and East Asia seas would still be possible as it happened historically, especially considering that Transports would no longer be taking up Forcelimit (and already they have the least utility of all ship classes, as they can’t even Hunt Pirates).

3): It would encourage more historical overseas expedition armies: likely smaller armies of professional units, mostly infantry, that would need to bolster their numbers by recruiting local mercenaries/tribes.

4): Naval battles would no longer be without risk beyond the loss of ships: if a ship is lost in battle, so are the amount troops it was ferrying. However, same principle applies to the opposite: no longer will a transport fleet be doomed if they run into a squadron of heavies.

Galley Tradepower

The second change to naval warfare I’d like to advocate are for Galleys to be able to protect trade (and carry out the missions without Light Ships): this would not only give a needed buff to the merchant republics of the Mediterranean (or just trade in the inland seas in general), but be perfectly historical: what constitutes as Galleys were used more frequently as trade ships throughout the EU4’s timeperiod than Light Ships for the first few centuries of the game.

Of course, with Galleys being cheaper, requiring less sailors, getting combat bonuses from inland seas, and finally having a larger transport capacity, that means they could potentially become completely broken by this – I will address the ways to prevent this below.

First, the base tradepower from a galley should be in increments of 0.25: from a Galley giving 0.25 Tradepower to an Archipelago Frigate giving 1.50 Tradepower – less than a third of the Great Frigate’s Tradepower.

Light Ship Buff

As for Light Ships – the second part to ensuring better naval balance – they’re in need of a buff. Now, I’m not advocating that a fleet of solely light ships should be a viable military strategy, but the issue remains that naval warfare is simply reduced to spam heavies (or galleys in inland), get them into a doomstack or two, have them slug it out and worry about your armies until the popup notifies you that the battle’s over. Additionally, light ships, much like transports, are incredibly easy to butcher, and putting them into a fleet intended for battle will almost invariably either have them being destroyed or captured – when historically they weren’t just dead weight in battles.

The game tries to stimulate their role by giving them double the tactical speed of a heavy, but it’s still not enough to keep in them in the fight for an extended period of time when a Great Frigate has just a little more than a third of the hull and only a fourth of the guns of the Threedecker (24/30 to 60/120). The increments in the ship hull size for light ships follow that of heavies: the last three models have double the incremental increases in hull size of the first three. Only problem being that while the heavies go by fives and then tens, the light ships go by twos and fours: even more damaging is that the Early Carrack has twenty hull, and the Barque only eight: the disparity becomes inconsolable after the Carrack/Caravel. I would personally recommend increasing the light ship hull increments to three/six: so that while the Barque still starts off with only eight hull, the Great Frigate would end with thirty-two hull: only eight points higher than what it was, but now it can actually last in battle (and gives them a different variation from Galleys).

Guns are the same: Heavies follow the same pattern of ten-twenty (with the Early Carrack having forty guns), while Light Ships go by two and a half-five (as the game can’t process 2.50 for guns, three-two was the variation for the first two jumps). For this, I would recommend increasing the light ship gun increments to four-eight; the Great Frigate would end up carrying forty-two guns, barely over a third of the Threedecker’s complement and more in line with the Heavy Frigate’s description of ‘Two decked vessels normally carrying about 40 guns’ (it only gets 25). These would be minor buffs – only eight more hull and twelve more guns – but it would actually allow light ships to be competitive, and would make Light Ship Combat Ability (which a number of trade-heavy nations get) actually meaningful, instead of just being a false variable.

Sea Terrain:

(A huge thanks to @Fluffy_Fishy for helping me develop this idea and coming up with most of the framework.)

As for sea tiles – my third idea for better balance – I would like to present a proposal to instead shake up the current system to hopefully add more some more depth to naval battles, as well as some other mechanics related to naval maneuverings. There would be five aspects to this rework of naval terrain: first would be reworking engagement width to be both visible in naval combat panel in the same way that combat width is in land combat, and to make engagement width both smaller at gamestart while having it increase as with dip tech.

Second would be having sea tiles have terrains. This is, admittedly, more difficult than assigning land terrain: there’s only so many defining geographical differences you can have in water where ships would be willing to fight. However, I do think it is possible with two geographic features: tide and depth. Both would binary in their variation: you can have a strong tide or a calm tide, and the water can either be shallow or deep. A strong tide penalizes the attacking fleet’s role in the same way that hills/mountains crossing does, while a shallow depth reduces Engagement in the same way that hills and mountains used to. Whereas a calm tide or deep depth (or the better equivalency that is come up for this part) would offer no defensive bonuses.

Third would be the expansion of inland sea – not in the sense of designating more provinces as inland (though I do believe that needs to be done for some areas as well should nothing change), but mechanically. This would involve expanding Inland Sea from a binary modifier to a four-tier provincial modifier for coast in general, which would look something like this:

Open Sea: This would be the default modifier for any sea tile that is not next to a land province: no penalties to engagement width, while Galleys receive a moderate combat malus.

Coast: This would be the default modifier for any sea tile that is next to a land province: no penalties to engagement width, but it does give a small bonus to the combat power of Light Ships, and to the privateer efficiency of any fleet in it.

Inland Coast: This would be a modifier for certain areas of coastal sea tiles to designate areas where galley combat was more predominant – as it is currently, the Mediterranean, Baltic Sea, sea of Japan and Chinese coast, etc. This gives a minor penalty to engagement width, a small bonus to the combat power of Light Ships and Galleys, and a small boost to both the tradepower of any galleys and the privateer efficiency of any fleet in the tile.

Harsh Coast: This would be a modifier for only a few provinces, mainly to represent coastlines that historically were particularly harsh, imposing or shallow – such as North Africa or Scotland and Norway. This gives a moderate penalty to engagement width, a moderate combat bonus to Light Ships, a small bonus to the tradepower of Galleys, and a moderate bonus to the privateer efficiency of navies in these tiles.

Fourth would be the expansion of climate to affect sea tiles. Like with coast, there would be four degrees of climate:

Artic: This is the harshest climate for sea tiles, which gives a moderate increase to both naval attrition and sailor maintenance for all ships within, in addition to giving a malus to local movement speed.

Temperate: This is the default temperature, with no bonuses or maluses.

Warm: The only difference this climate has from Temperate is that it gives a bonus local movement speed.

Tropical: This climate gives a minor bonus to local movement speed, but also gives a minor increase to sailor maintenance and a moderate increase to naval attrition.

Fifth and final would be expanding the barely used Trade Winds mechanics ingame into something that affects all provinces as a general wind modifier; unlike the prior two, there are only three variants for this.

Strong Winds: This would largely represent areas of the world that were affected by trade winds, or just had an unusually strong wind speed; this would give a moderate bonus to local movements speed, as well as a minor increase to light ship combat strength.

Moderate Winds: This would be the default for most provinces – no bonuses or maluses.

Weak Winds: This would largely be restricted to areas that would be classified as being inland seas, giving a minor malus to movement speed and Heavy Ship combat power, as well as a moderate combat bonus to Galleys.

The sum of all this is simple, in spite of my verbosity: every naval tile would now have a terrain that might offer some defensive bonuses, as well as three different modifiers that may affect the performance of certain ships, attrition, unit speed, trade power, and privateer efficiency of those in them. This would result in some more intuitive, nuanced, balanced and varied naval gameplay – though how some missions like protect trade and privateer efficiency are handled would have to be changed (ideal so that fleets move only within tiles that optimize their output for their particular mission).

Naval Techgroups

Finally, my last suggestion for naval warfare is something I would describe as being a nice bonus: have the Tech Groups apply to naval units as well: China should not be building Carracks in 1444. Having different ship groups – albeit I think later ship models need to be universal – and ship progression would offer a number of benefits:

1): It would make selling ships more meaningful.

2): It would allow for primitives to get transports in the form of starting out with galley-only techgroups, as having different ship sets and progression paths for different techgroups would allow for some galley-only tech starts.

3): It would help better represent historical European colonization by giving them slightly stronger ship models early on, without needing to do railroady stuff like free cores.

4): Further developments could be made to affect stuff like attrition rate; a flat-bottomed junk is not going to be nearly as effective as crossing an ocean as a caravel.

I’d personally advise Western/Eastern/Anatolian sharing a naval group, Muslim/East African/Indian sharing another, Chinese/Nomadic sharing a third, and the American/remaining African groups sharing the fourth.

Possible Example:

Western-Eastern-Anatolian:
H: Cog, Carrack, Galleon, War Galleon, Twodecker, Threedecker
L: Hulk, Caravel, Round Caravel, Frigate, Heavy Frigate, Great Frigate
G: Galley, War Galley, Galleass, Galiot, Chebeck, Brigantine

Chinese-Nomadic:
H: Fuchuan Junk, Panokseon, Geobukseon, War Junk, Twodecker, Threedecker
L: Guangchuan Junk, Sekibune, Shuinsen, Lorcha, Pinisi, Great Frigate
G: Shachuan Junk, Bune, Atakebune, Tekkosen, Benzaisen, Brigantine

Afro-American:
H: Galleon, War Galleon, Twodecker, Threedecker
L: Round Caravel, Frigate, Heavy Frigate, Great Frigate
G: Canoe, War Canoe, Galleass, Galiot, Chebeck, Brigantine

Etc.

---

Well, if you made it to the end of this – all I have to say is thank you for making what was likely a sizeable investment of your time to read through it, and that this is the sum of roughly half a year of thinking about and talking with other players on how warfare in EU4 can be improved, and an attempt to strike an honest balance between historicity, realism and gameplay.
 

This thread is more than 5 months old.

It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose. If you feel it is necessary to make a new reply, you can still do so though.

Bearjuden

Major
77 Badges
Jan 7, 2014
609
19
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
For the whole Swiss mercenaries thing, isn't that what condottieri are for? I never bothered to get Mare Nostrum so I really don't know, this is a serious question, but let's say you just add the ability to request X condottieri from a particular country instead of just being offered them; then you can just sidestep the whole issue and keep the nice, simple "mercenaries are from an area" solution because getting "Swiss Mercenaries" is the same as renting part of the Swiss army.
 

ZomgK3tchup

Into the Future
125 Badges
Dec 25, 2009
4.184
1.484
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Lead and Gold
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Gettysburg
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Deus Vult
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
For the whole Swiss mercenaries thing, isn't that what condottieri are for? I never bothered to get Mare Nostrum so I really don't know, this is a serious question, but let's say you just add the ability to request X condottieri from a particular country instead of just being offered them; then you can just sidestep the whole issue and keep the nice, simple "mercenaries are from an area" solution because getting "Swiss Mercenaries" is the same as renting part of the Swiss army.
EU4 should really call its condottieri system "Rent Army" instead since you're literally renting another country's standing army, not contracting mercenaries.

In your example, hiring mercenaries from the Swiss area wouldn't be the same as hiring mercenaries from the Swiss nation. The former involves hiring non-affiliated mercenary bands who happen to be from Switzerland. The latter involves renting Switzerland's standing army.

For EU4 nations, with some exceptions, having standing armies and standing navies for the first century of the game is one of the least realistic things about them, and by extension, so is condottieri.

It's a little weird, but the current condottieri system has literally nothing to do with how condottieri actually operated beyond a vague notion of hiring soldiers who weren't from your country.
 
Last edited:

Martynios

Raadspensionaris
15 Badges
May 1, 2016
1.816
739
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
For the whole Swiss mercenaries thing, isn't that what condottieri are for? I never bothered to get Mare Nostrum so I really don't know, this is a serious question, but let's say you just add the ability to request X condottieri from a particular country instead of just being offered them; then you can just sidestep the whole issue and keep the nice, simple "mercenaries are from an area" solution because getting "Swiss Mercenaries" is the same as renting part of the Swiss army.
The Swiss national ideas however are ridiculously underpowered and far too weak to do justice to the effectiveness of their mercenaries (and own soldiers, but that’s a bit of a different issue).
 

Grand Historian

Pretentious Username
77 Badges
May 13, 2014
5.225
9.142
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
The Swiss national ideas however are ridiculously underpowered and far too weak to do justice to the effectiveness of their mercenaries (and own soldiers, but that’s a bit of a different issue).

Switzerland as a whole is underdeveloped, methinks.
 

Bearjuden

Major
77 Badges
Jan 7, 2014
609
19
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
One more thing as long as the topic (the topic namely being defensive mechanics) was raised and then I swear I'll let you go and think on the feedback like you said, see if there's anything you want to change, etc:

When you start a siege, and you batter down the walls, you have to leave someone in the province to prevent them from rebuilding the walls in your absence. This is true even if there are thousands of people inside the castle and you leave a single regiment (though I think there's a sallying mechanic of some sort, I've never seen it used, ever), as though one unit could stop them from putting up some smal repacement barricades. But most egregiously of all, it's even true if they have a max level fort that took years to build initially, and you leave for a matter of days.

There's gotta' be something we can do about this, it's absolutely ridiculous.
 

Grand Historian

Pretentious Username
77 Badges
May 13, 2014
5.225
9.142
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
One more thing as long as the topic (the topic namely being defensive mechanics) was raised and then I swear I'll let you go and think on the feedback like you said, see if there's anything you want to change, etc:

When you start a siege, and you batter down the walls, you have to leave someone in the province to prevent them from rebuilding the walls in your absence. This is true even if there are thousands of people inside the castle and you leave a single regiment (though I think there's a sallying mechanic of some sort, I've never seen it used, ever), as though one unit could stop them from putting up some smal repacement barricades. But most egregiously of all, it's even true if they have a max level fort that took years to build initially, and you leave for a matter of days.

There's gotta' be something we can do about this, it's absolutely ridiculous.

Ah, great point! Hm - maybe just raise the requirement to have the sieging force equal to the garrison? It wouldn't be ideal, but I think it would be the most handy.
 

Simen113

Lt. General
65 Badges
Jan 13, 2013
1.304
1.402
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Also, reading Tyerman's God's War, I've become further disillusionised by the warfare system in game. Although it precedes this game's timespan, its detailing of medieval warfare in the Latin West and Muslim Near East has made me realize how artificial warfare in game is. The immense costs of investment of an enemy's fort, for example, building counter-forts, ensuring supplies to the besieging army and most importantly a supply chain for a moving army, and so on. Just the fact that it is in all regards impossible to win as a besieged fort highlights this. Supplies could be foraged from rich lands and last a while, but being in foreign land, or just having an army assembled at all, ate away at troops and their morale and equipment.

As I said, the Crusades are just out of the game's timespan, but the principles stand. Now troops magically teleport across the globe to perfectly maximum morale troops without any problems. Its pretty one dimensional at best
 
Last edited:

Archangel Dino

Second Lieutenant
41 Badges
May 4, 2017
110
0
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
I feel like CK2 and HOI4 had great unique ideas for their combat systems that weren't implemented in EU4. I do think the whole idea of only 3 types of units is far too simplified. I mean, EU4 is all about warfare and empire-building. The least we can have is different types of units (Light Cav, Heavy Cav, Skirmishers, etc).

Personally, I would like to see combat width redone in a way that gives smaller armies a chance of fighting against larger armies. Numbers don't always win in reality. Training and tech plays a big role, but the way EU4 is structured, even the large empires will have "well-trained armies" making smaller countries a joke. In reality, it's much easier to train a smaller army than it is a larger one.

I think the Prussian Militarization mechanic is actually very interesting and a shame it wasn't implemented for every country.
 

Grand Historian

Pretentious Username
77 Badges
May 13, 2014
5.225
9.142
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
I feel like CK2 and HOI4 had great unique ideas for their combat systems that weren't implemented in EU4. I do think the whole idea of only 3 types of units is far too simplified. I mean, EU4 is all about warfare and empire-building. The least we can have is different types of units (Light Cav, Heavy Cav, Skirmishers, etc).

Personally, I would like to see combat width redone in a way that gives smaller armies a chance of fighting against larger armies. Numbers don't always win in reality. Training and tech plays a big role, but the way EU4 is structured, even the large empires will have "well-trained armies" making smaller countries a joke. In reality, it's much easier to train a smaller army than it is a larger one.

I think the Prussian Militarization mechanic is actually very interesting and a shame it wasn't implemented for every country.

I don't see how Militarization would be really applicable to more than a few other states (Sweden comes to mind), but something along the lines of it would've been welcome: and so we got Professionalism.
 

Leonidas1

Corporal
43 Badges
Aug 11, 2016
45
14
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
Sorry if its already been mentioned but supply routes should be a thing, for example playing as an Iberian nation invading North Africa or vice versa should be a risky move, if say your army is in the north african region and an enemy navy is blockading the sea routes how is your army getting supplies? sure they can raid local areas during a siege which could help maintain smaller armies and skirmish parties but a fully fledged invasion force should begin to suffer until their navy moves on or is defeated by your own navy. Armies both player and AI shouldn't be able to march straight to their opponents capital and across their land without creating supply routes by occupying provinces in between without eventually suffering crippling attrition. This could make wars more strategic and the role of navy blockades more realistic, the British for example struggled massively against American rebels once the French navy began blockading their supply routes.

Also for the love of God please put a limit on the mercs, its so frustrating to exhaust an AI manpower reserve only to have them take out a million loans and spam merc stacks at you, mercs are vastly over emphasised in this game in terms of numbers and under emphasised in their actual roles as mentioned in this thread previously.
 

Archangel Dino

Second Lieutenant
41 Badges
May 4, 2017
110
0
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
Sorry if its already been mentioned but supply routes should be a thing, for example playing as an Iberian nation invading North Africa or vice versa should be a risky move, if say your army is in the north african region and an enemy navy is blockading the sea routes how is your army getting supplies? sure they can raid local areas during a siege which could help maintain smaller armies and skirmish parties but a fully fledged invasion force should begin to suffer until their navy moves on or is defeated by your own navy. Armies both player and AI shouldn't be able to march straight to their opponents capital and across their land without creating supply routes by occupying provinces in between without eventually suffering crippling attrition. This could make wars more strategic and the role of navy blockades more realistic, the British for example struggled massively against American rebels once the French navy began blockading their supply routes.

Also for the love of God please put a limit on the mercs, its so frustrating to exhaust an AI manpower reserve only to have them take out a million loans and spam merc stacks at you, mercs are vastly over emphasised in this game in terms of numbers and under emphasised in their actual roles as mentioned in this thread previously.

Supply Routes definitely. I know that soldiers used to "live off the land" but supply routes still played a major role with supply baggage trains.

There were many instances where smaller armies defeated larger ones simply by attacking supply lines. It would be great if something like that would be implemented in EU4 so it isn't just "Spam Troops and whoever has more soldiers wins".
 

Grand Historian

Pretentious Username
77 Badges
May 13, 2014
5.225
9.142
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
This will be great, but EU4 map should be look like a HoI3/HoI4 map - otherwise there is no point in maneuvering war.

I don't have HoI 4 so unfortunately I can't make any salient comments on that. Could you expound?
 

Imperator_Thrawn

Second Lieutenant
53 Badges
Apr 23, 2016
109
130
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Darkest Hour
I don't think my PC could handle EU4 with HoI4s map
upload_2018-2-15_20-37-57.png
 

Grand Historian

Pretentious Username
77 Badges
May 13, 2014
5.225
9.142
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War

Metz

Field Marshal
88 Badges
Nov 21, 2008
4.401
4.729
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV
Maybe increase attrition for armies that don’t have adjacent occupied provinces linking back to their home/friendly provinces? This would simulate supply lines. It would also prioritize the occupation of coastal provinces to bring in supplies.
 

Grand Historian

Pretentious Username
77 Badges
May 13, 2014
5.225
9.142
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
Maybe increase attrition for armies that don’t have adjacent occupied provinces linking back to their home/friendly provinces? This would simulate supply lines. It would also prioritize the occupation of coastal provinces to bring in supplies.

Simple, but effective and easy to understand.
 

Archangel Dino

Second Lieutenant
41 Badges
May 4, 2017
110
0
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
Maybe increase attrition for armies that don’t have adjacent occupied provinces linking back to their home/friendly provinces? This would simulate supply lines. It would also prioritize the occupation of coastal provinces to bring in supplies.

While this idea would definitely work, it still doesn't address the issue of large countries spamming units to overpower smaller powers. Smaller countries still need movement speed bonuses so they're able to attack the supply lines of larger countries.
 

Metz

Field Marshal
88 Badges
Nov 21, 2008
4.401
4.729
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV
Change regiment size to company size (100) or battalion (500). It would also be more realistic when it comes to boarding transports. I don't think 1,000 soldiers can fit in one ship. It would fix the strangeness of an artillery unit having 1,000 men.

The more units you raise from a province the more penalties the province gets from taxes and production. This way big countries can field more troops still but they won't over do it so that they can keep their economy intact.

Also diversify the types of units like in CK2 and have a military tech tree to unlock flavor units like redcoats, tercios, streltsy, etc...

Militia would be cheaper and have penalty in none home provinces. These can be used for last resort or just used in general to deal with rebels and to lower revolt risk.
Light infantry would become line infantry. These are the staple unit for most of the game's timeframe.
Heavy infantry would become grenadiers. These are more expensive units who are brought in to fight in key battles and sieges.
Light cavalry would be used to flank artillery or can be used on their own to cut supply lines.
Heavy cavalry would be shock cavalry.

The game also needs to take account of rivers and have a logistics map. When selecting units, rivers should have small arrows so the player knows what provinces are useful to keep attrition down.

Finally, they need to make it so you can see how old generals and admirals are so you know if they will die soon or not. You can see every other character's age except for the generals.
 

Grand Historian

Pretentious Username
77 Badges
May 13, 2014
5.225
9.142
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
Finally, they need to make it so you can see how old generals and admirals are so you know if they will die soon or not. You can see every other character's age except for the generals.

Age as the determining factor in death should be done away with; EU4 has been in need of a health value forever. Especially since they've been trying to flesh out characters as of late.