Rewards for defeating religious vs peasant revolts.

[Talq]

Currently, religious revolts give you 100 prestige and 200 piety for defeat while peasant revolts only give you 20 prestige for defeat, despite being of a similar size & needing similar levels of effort to defeat. (Peasant revolts have poorer troop quality, but in practice I'm going to be shipping/moving similar numbers of troops to counter either).

I would suggest increasing peasant revolts to 100 prestige, and reducing religious to 50/100.

 

[Parha]

I understand your reasoning, but I'm going to give a rough quote from a podcast episode I listened to about slave revolts in Rome. "The reason why only young generals led armies against slave revolts is because the more experienced generals had nothing to gain from defeating slaves, as almost everyone viewed them as a much lower class, but everything to lose if a slave army defeated them in combat." Same goes with peasant revolts. If you put down an army and capture their leader, 'Big deal, you killed some peasants.' Its not like they were a real army.' is what everyone would think. So yeah that's why I think peasant prestige should be kept low, but I do agree that religions should be increased. Maybe least piety for same group religions, more piety heresies of your religion, and most for religions of other groups.

 

[Zohtun]

I'd be happier if each revolt you put down gave a stacking bonus to revolt risk rather than a static one. My Rome has so many revolts of religious or peasant quality that I'd be happy merely with a way to make them realise that I don't even have to respond to Peasant revolts anymore, my vassals put them down. Religious revolts still need my direct involvement, but with 100% MA it's just a matter of time before I convert the province. If the Emperor just put down the last 17 revolts without even -trying-, eventually you'd realise that maybe it'd be smarter to just quietly farm your land and try to stay under his notice.

 

[NewbieOne]

I understand your reasoning, but I'm going to give a rough quote from a podcast episode I listened to about slave revolts in Rome. "The reason why only young generals led armies against slave revolts is because the more experienced generals had nothing to gain from defeating slaves, as almost everyone viewed them as a much lower class, but everything to lose if a slave army defeated them in combat." Same goes with peasant revolts. If you put down an army and capture their leader, 'Big deal, you killed some peasants.' Its not like they were a real army.' is what everyone would think. So yeah that's why I think peasant prestige should be kept low, but I do agree that religions should be increased. Maybe least piety for same group religions, more piety heresies of your religion, and most for religions of other groups.

Brilliant post. And yes. Not to shoot down the OP's suggestion. Perhaps there is a certain sense of lack of reward in dealing with peasant rebellions, but yes, prestige is a rather specific notion, and there isn't much of it to gain by quelling revolts.

HOWEVER, I guess some colour could be added to peasant/revolt affairs. For example quelling those revolts by force should not necessarily give you more peace in the realm. Quite the opposite, it could actually (random chance? specific scripting factors?) inspire more such revolts, making those peasants into martyrs or eventually turning peasant revolts into a more serious national (i.e. cultural) or religious revolt. Or spawning an event in which local nobles join and lead the war. This would be similar to what happened in real life in Flanders (vs France) around the time of the Battle of the Golden Spurs.

By contrast, using your diplomacy to talk the peasants into peace, using your stewardship to actually improve their lot in life (get some laws to protect them, enforce such laws, get some stuff done to allow them to increase their wealth/alleviate their poverty), that would reduce the revolt risk properly.

... And this could eventually, like near the end of the timeframe, tie into concepts of representative monarchy with parliaments, basic liberties and all the Magna Carta jazz.

 

[ak476000]

Being able to pay them off or offer them land within the realm would be a nice time saving solution other than sending troops.

 

[Rags17]

Brilliant post. And yes. Not to shoot down the OP's suggestion. Perhaps there is a certain sense of lack of reward in dealing with peasant rebellions, but yes, prestige is a rather specific notion, and there isn't much of it to gain by quelling revolts.

HOWEVER, I guess some colour could be added to peasant/revolt affairs. For example quelling those revolts by force should not necessarily give you more peace in the realm. Quite the opposite, it could actually (random chance? specific scripting factors?) inspire more such revolts, making those peasants into martyrs or eventually turning peasant revolts into a more serious national (i.e. cultural) or religious revolt. Or spawning an event in which local nobles join and lead the war. This would be similar to what happened in real life in Flanders (vs France) around the time of the Battle of the Golden Spurs.

By contrast, using your diplomacy to talk the peasants into peace, using your stewardship to actually improve their lot in life (get some laws to protect them, enforce such laws, get some stuff done to allow them to increase their wealth/alleviate their poverty), that would reduce the revolt risk properly.

... And this could eventually, like near the end of the timeframe, tie into concepts of representative monarchy with parliaments, basic liberties and all the Magna Carta jazz.

+1 to OP and +2 to this post

I love the idea of an evolving game - when local laws are low and chaos high then you do what you have to do to survive, eg smash the rebels, but as time passes laws form, traditions arise and people start pushing for common rights, due process etc. There are still revolts, mainly be people looking for short term gain, but eventually we get today's society, in all its imperfect majesty.

In game terms I'd love it if playing a 1337 start would be COMPLETELY different to playing a 767 start.

"Peasants grumbling about taxes ? No big deal, I'll just nail some to a tree, that'll shut them up !"

"Actually sir, they are well within their rights to claim rent relief in accordance with the feudal boon that your great great great grandfather gave them (in writing) back in 1163 !"

"Damn these modern ideas of law and order !"