Revision of Events and Their Development In CK3

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chr0me

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Looking at various threads in the CK3 forums I have recently noticed discussions about event quality; writing style; tone; the number of them; triggers; and their creation.

This got me thinking that perhaps some constructive brainstorming about how to improve their overall quality and quantity in the game is desperately required. Before I get into that I will link some of those said threads here:
One more important thing we need to address first is the plan to add more event packs, especially if they all follow the trend of only having 100 events like
Friends and Foes (event chains being included in this number lowers the unique number even lower).

To give some context to their bad value, the mod
VIET Events exists and is free with 1008 unique events in it. I believe this shows that not only do more events need to be included in event packs, but the base game itself needs more events with more consistent quality.

Now lets begin with what can be done to improve events along with their development (starting with highlighting their current issues):


Current Issues With Events and Their Development:

One prevalent issue with the current event creation in CK3 is that they are created sporadically by different content creators in their spare time, with no unifying vision. Alongside this, there is the inescapable fact that no matter how passionate these content creators are they are not professional writers or historians.

Which leads to events with wildly varying quality and historical accuracy/plausibility in their creation. Nothing in my opinion is worse than someone using pop culture and modern writing style to inaccurately describe and contextualize medieval rulers, this destroys the quality of the events (again in my opinion).

What I mean by this is using language that is anachronistic to the medieval period, complemented with a style and tone that often leads in farcical directions (the writing overwhelmingly does not take itself seriously for the majority of the time).

The event writing also suffers from over specifying details in them, when you give too much detail to events that are supposed to fire quite often for many different rulers. This can take you out of the experience when the writing is not vague enough that you can fill in the blanks yourself so that it fits your current ruler. There is something to be said about having some brevity...
(though lets not include this thread, because its length is a necessary evil)

Moving on to a major issue, a great number of events in the game have laxed or no triggers on when to fire the event, which characters to pick, or why they happened in the first place. This can lead to all sorts of illogical situations where your ruler who is a baby has to fight a duel against an adult warrior for their throne, with other examples showcased in the threads I listed.

So what can be done to potentially fix this you ask?


Development Changes to Implement for Creating, Maintaining, & Revising Events

A key step to take in improving event development in CK3, would be for developers to create a small dedicated team solely focused on creating,
maintaining, and revising events.​

How its potential creation could look like is involving three fundamental people:


| 1. A professional writer | 2. A historian (can be a medieval history undergrad or grad student) | 3. One coder (to code the events) |

Who dedicate their time in exclusively creating events with a unified vision, consistent writing style, and incorporating some degree of historical plausibility.

Their goal and main purpose would be in ensuring proper event triggers, quality writing, and consideration for balancing the amount of historical accuracy that should be weighed against understandability. They would make sure a steady flow of events would be in the work, while reviewing and fixing older events that need further work after the community gives feedback (such as bugged triggers or errors).


By implementing a team similar to the one I proposed, the development of events in CK3 would improve in their number and professional quality. Instead of haphazardly made events, the Event Triad Team ensures consistent event maintenance and development.

Final Remarks:


I know I wrote a lot on events so good on you if you read or even if you skimmed it. Also, while event quality is subjective alongside having the opinion of whether they are good or bad. I believe their actual development process can be more objectively measured. Therefore, I welcome any feedback on what I proposed and feel free to give your own opinion on events including their development.
 
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I know there are a lot of people who see this differently, but I think the best way to improve the CK3 event experience is not to add more events, but to rework existing events to make more sense. This would primarily involve stricter triggers, but I also support the addition of a game rule to disable "absurd" events. Although maybe "absurd" isn't the right word here: I would like to turn off events where the tone does not fit with a more serious experience, or where the situation the event describes just does not make sense in the context of the game world.
 
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Quantity does not mean quality.
 
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My understanding is that the current tone, coding and writing quality of events roughly matches Paradox's vision of how the game should be. I've seen plenty of acknowledgements that various mechanics or systems fall short and are slated for improvement. But I've never seen that sentiment from the devs about the game's events writ large. At best, I've seen the most obvious flaws be acknowledged as one-off bugs. As long as this level of quality is what the developers are aiming for, a change in process won't make much difference. There has to be a will to improve first.
 
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chr0me

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Quantity does not mean quality.
True, but the current events in CK3 are neither abundant nor particularly of high quality. While it is true you generally have to make a decision about which to prioritize, I believe changing the development process of events will allow for hopefully more plentiful and well made events (compared to now).
 
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vandevere

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My thought is that events like the "Stolen Taxes" Events, and the "adultery events" need to have multiple outcomes instead of just one. Don't know if it's still the case, but some time back, if a character accused your spouse of adultery, the accuser would instantly succeed, with the Event completely ignoring your traits, and your spouses traits.

The "Stolen Taxes" Event proceeds in exactly the same way; strangers from afar barging their way into your capital, and stealing all your tazes; completely ignoring the fact that all rulers have guards hired to protect all that cash from theft, and that those would react to foreigners attempting to steal your lawfully taxed gold with extreme violence,

All Events-no matter what the event is-need to take character traits of all participants into consideration, and weigh them properly.

Edit: All events need to come with a chance of Success/Failure based on traits. No more instafails, please!
 
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There really needs to be more effort to standardize and implement certain triggers. Things like the "likely to cheat" trigger, for instance.

Just have a list of standard conditions/triggers (e.g., "unlikely to cheat," "can't eat meat," "wrong orientation," "blind," etc.), and have part of the workflow for event creation be "go over this list, see if any apply to the event (or any options within it), and implement the standard checks for those options.

That will save time over requiring each writer to have to spontaneously come up with relevant conditions on their own (although they are free to do so if unique requirements make sense), and also help avoid some of the weirder immersion-breaking nonsense.

Likewise, there needs to be more thought to making the AI minimize its stress gain, as it seems that landed folks very quickly become stressed messes on coming of age. I'd frankly be ok with a bandaid for the AI of giving AI characters a hidden stress gain reduction, as they seem to need it, and can't be proactive about choosing how to manage stress like humans can.
 
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chr0me

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My thought is that events like the "Stolen Taxes" Events, and the "adultery events" need to have multiple outcomes instead of just one. Don't know if it's still the case, but some time back, if a character accused your spouse of adultery, the accuser would instantly succeed, with the Event completely ignoring your traits, and your spouses traits.,

All Events-no matter what the event is-need to take character traits of all participants into consideration, and weigh them properly.

Edit: All events need to come with a chance of Success/Failure based on traits. No more instafails, please!
These type of events are the reason why I believe changing the event development process will lead to this hypothetical team going back and revising these problematic events.

As it currently stands, I do not believe improving or fixing events is a very high priority for the developers since that would mean taking content creators off of other things to focus on older events.

There always seems to be the problem that new content is always being made, but very rarely does older content with some pretty obvious flaws ever get a second look (until years later if ever).
 
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Since people in this thread are passionate about events, what are your thoughts on the events of Old World? Do you consider that a good model to work towards?

Personally, I have been very impressed by them. They do seem serious and historically inspired. Also there's probably thousands by now since every biweekly update seemed to say "added 20 events" and also revisions to old events.
 
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It should be harder for a zealous person to commit a sinful act. Zealous AI tend to take lovers at the same rate as everyone else.

Stolen taxes need to take into account the strength of each side. A lowly count should have little chance of stealing from the personal estates of a mighty king.

criminal acts against a just person should cause a retaliatory murder scheme to cause less stress than usual. Being vengeful should cause a stress loss. If both vengeful and just, there is no stress. Stolen taxes should count as a criminal act.
 
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chr0me

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My thought is that events like the "Stolen Taxes" Events, and the "adultery events" need to have multiple outcomes instead of just one. Don't know if it's still the case, but some time back, if a character accused your spouse of adultery, the accuser would instantly succeed, with the Event completely ignoring your traits, and your spouses traits.

The "Stolen Taxes" Event proceeds in exactly the same way; strangers from afar barging their way into your capital, and stealing all your tazes; completely ignoring the fact that all rulers have guards hired to protect all that cash from theft, and that those would react to foreigners attempting to steal your lawfully taxed gold with extreme violence,

All Events-no matter what the event is-need to take character traits of all participants into consideration, and weigh them properly.

Edit: All events need to come with a chance of Success/Failure based on traits. No more instafails, please!

Not only do events need to take character traits into consideration, but they should also potentially offer different options based on them. If done correctly, it can make the game way more interesting as it would rebalance the desirability of certain positive and negative traits.

A potential implementation of the differences of having positive vs. negative traits, would be in what is prioritized by a villainous or just character. For example, a just character may sacrifice their own personal wealth or power for the benefit of the realm in event options (improving vassal lands, increased popular opinion, reduced personal income temporary). Whereas, a character with villainous traits may enrich themselves to the detriment of the realm (tyranny, opinion loss of vassals, negative debuffs for vassal counties).

I believe by considering character traits for events in some similar fashion as I described, makes the game much more interesting and adds to the roleplaying elements of the game (an element of CK3 the developers are always claiming to champion).

There may already be some events that offer extra options based on character traits, but nowhere near the amount of events as revamping and unifying the system would.
 
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Since people in this thread are passionate about events, what are your thoughts on the events of Old World? Do you consider that a good model to work towards?

Personally, I have been very impressed by them. They do seem serious and historically inspired. Also there's probably thousands by now since every biweekly update seemed to say "added 20 events" and also revisions to old events.
I'm really a great fan of the event system in OW. The sheer number in that game is impressive (though I concede that a good share of them might be a bit "simpler" then the average CK3 event; also, events are human-only in OW, so how the AI deals with them is no concern), but I think something else is even more important: Very tight and strict triggers/conditions. Even with the huge number of events in OW this leads to some repetition, but it achieves two things: Even after many hours of playing, you will still discover new events (especially if you try out new things) and you have few really immersion breaking occurances, where you scratch your head and ask "Why does this event fire now with these characters involved?". CK3 (IMO, sadly) takes the opposite approach - too loose triggers, causing a kind of firework of events after a new patch/DLC first (of which quite a few don't fit in the situation they are firing or have weird participants) and then soon repetition. While the latter is hard to avoid without adding a lot more events, the immersion problem could be (in comparison) fairly easily adressed by sharpening triggers or restricting the pool of possibly involved characters for the existing events. That would mean less events, but here less would be more for my personal taste.
 
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Why is a just, diligent, honest heir of mine happily loosing arrows at common women instead of y'know just hunting. Some stuff just badly needs to be checked through traits. People been complaining about this sort of event since day 1 it feels like.
 
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