Revised Lithuania

Radier · Feb 27, 2006

I think you have done a great job!

ToMazaz · Feb 27, 2006

Nice work Herr Doctor but could you fix one name - Vitold to Vytautas because Vitold is our duke (Vytautas) name in polish.

Herr Doctor · Feb 27, 2006

ToMazaz said:
Nice work Herr Doctor but could you fix one name - Vitold to Vytautas because Vitold is our duke (Vytautas) name in polish.

Witold (as well as Vitold, Vitoldus etc) is Latin transcription of the name. As I said I used simply those names from primary historical sources, which is in Ruthenian and Latin, in order not to make those confusion with all historical personages “ethnical” origins. You know, for example, Alexander I (Aleksandras I) was the last Grand Duke, which know and spoke Baltic language. So should those Grand Dukes before him be named in Lithuanian? And what about others then? There are a lot of confusion with all this stuff, so I just choused the “easiest” way in order not to make the things too complex and confusing.

Same with the leaders, which were both of Baltic Lithuanian and “Ruthenian” origin. For example, how would you name such cosmopolite person as Boguslaw Radziwill, which even did not speak a word in Baltic Lithuanian?

sabular · Feb 27, 2006

Herr Doctor said:
I know. It could be reduced of course. However, these events represent the all endless raids since 1480s to 1650s, so I think just to give one big bonus for Tatars for them, instead of making hundred boring similar events for every twenty-fifty years at last.

Perhaps these could be made into random events, possibly after an event where crimea can chose to decides whether she wants these events or not (if that is possible with random events). This would make the profit of the raids spread over time, without giving too much of an "ah, it's 12:50 again, the Tatars will raid us now" feeling. Also the continuing threat of tatar raids gives pol/lit a reason to fight them (instead of already having lost anything they could from the first event).

almoravid · Feb 28, 2006

I like most of them, so I'm only going to comment on those I have problems with.

Code:

#Smolensk uprising of 1440#
event = {
	id = 3450
	trigger = { event = 40209
			owned = {province = 285 data = -1} }
	random = no
	country = LIT
	trigger = { event = 40209 }
	name = “Smolensk uprising of 1440"
	desc = "In 1404-1405 Grand Duke Vitold annexed the city and 
territory of the princedom of Smolensk to Lithuania. Smolensk was an 
important East European trading center and a stronghold of great strategic 
importance. Of course not all people in the city were happy with new rule. 
During the period of instability followed the death of Zygimont in March 1440 
the lower classes of Smolensk society (the craftsmen, journeymen, 
peasants, beggars etc) revolted against the Grand Ducal authority. Part of 
the Smolensk boyars and Lithuanian administration fled from the city; the 
rest (who were not so lucky) were killed by the furious crowd. The boyars 
asked for the help of the Lithuanian army to suppress the uprising, while the 
leaders of the rebels invited Yury Lungvienyevicz, Prince of Mstislavl, to take 
the throne of Smolensk. Prince Yury organized resistance to the attack of 
the Lithuanians in November 1440 and managed to beat them off. However, 
in 1441 the uprising was finally stifled and the Lithuanian rule restored in the 
city."
	style = 1
	date = { day = 20 month = march year = 1440 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1441 }

	action_a ={				
		name = "Damn rebels!"
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = population which = 285 value = -500 }
		command = { type = revolt which = 285 }
		command = { type = revolt which = 285 }
		command = { type = revolt which = 285 }
	}
}

I think stuff like this better be emulated by some nationalism in smolensk from start on.

Code:

#Succession of Svitrigaila#
#By Crook#
event = {
	id = 40211
	random = no
	country = LIT
	trigger = { OR = { monarch = 04311 
			   monarch = 04291 } }
	name = "Succession of Grand Duke Svitrigaila"
	desc = "Grand Duke Svitrigaila has died. Should we invite Kazimier, 
King of Poland, to be our ruler, or go our own way and elect a new monarch 
from our nobles?"
	style = 1
	date = { day = 9 month = february year = 1452 }

	action_a ={				
		name = "Remain independent, elect a new monarch"
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04311 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04291 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04293 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04295 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04296 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04297 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04317 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04312 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04313 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04314 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04315 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04316 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 3447 } #Union of Lublin
	}
	action_b ={				
		name = "Invite Kazimier"
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04311 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04291 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04317 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04295 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04296 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04297 }
		command = { type = religion which = catholic }
		command = { type = remove_countryculture which = ruthenian }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = ruthenian }
		command = { type = stability value = -3 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 5 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 40212 }
	}
}

#Succession of Michail#
#By Crook#
event = {
	id = 40213
	random = no
	country = LIT
	trigger = { monarch = 04310 }
	name = "Succession of Grand Duke Michail"
	desc = "Grand Duke Michail has died. Should we invite Kazimier, 
King of Poland to be our ruler, or go our own way?"
	style = 1
	date = { day = 30 month = december year = 1451 }

	action_a ={				
		name = "Remain independent, elect a new monarch"
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04310 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04312 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04313 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04314 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04315 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04316 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04293 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04295 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04296 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04297 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04317 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 3447 } # Union of Lublin
	}
	action_b ={				
		name = "Invite Kazimier"
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 04310 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04317 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04295 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04296 }
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 04297 }
		command = { type = religion which = catholic }
		command = { type = remove_countryculture which = ruthenian }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = ruthenian }
		command = { type = stability value = -3 }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 60 value = 5 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 40214 }
	}
}

For the sake of game balance, I think 'Invite Kazimir' should be option_a in both events. This way, the ai will likely go back onto the historical path. Of course, in both situations, the nobles would more likely support a local dynasty, but in the game, we should ensure that Union of Lublin happens in almost every game. Otherwise, the balance in eastern europe is distorted, with Russia growing strong yet Poland and Lithuania remaining separate.

Code:

#The Marriage of the Grand Duke#  
event = {
	id = 210012
	trigger = { monarch = 04295
		OR = {
			exists = MOS
			exists = RUS
		}
		NOT = {
			war = { country = LIT country = RUS }
			war = { country = LIT country = MOS }
			}
}
	random = no
	country = LIT
	name = "The Marriage of the Grand Duke"
	desc = "In order to improve the relations with the Grand Duchy of 
Muscovy, which growing power became the main threat to the Lithuanian 
position as the leading state of Eastern Europe, Grand Duke Alaksandar 
decided to marry Princess Elena, daughter of Grand Duke Ivan III of Muscovy."   
	style = 1
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1495 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1496 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Ask for the hand of Princess Elena"
		command = { type = trigger which = 210013 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 210014 }
		command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 20 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOS value = 20 }
	}

	action_b = {
		name = "No deals with the Muscovites"
		command = { type = relation which = RUS value = -30 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOS value = -30 }
	}
}

(....)

#The Marriage of the Grand Duke#  
event = {
	id = 210015
	random = no
	country = LIT
	name = "The Marriage of the Grand Duke"
	desc = "Grand Duke Ivan III of Muscovy accepted the offer and 
the marriage between Grand Duke Alaksandar I and Princess Elena happened 
on February 15, 1495 in Vilna."   
	style = 1

	action_a = {
		name = "Wonderful!"
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = relation which = RUS value = 30 }
		command = { type = relation which = MOS value = 30 }
		command = { type = alliance which = RUS }
 		command = { type = alliance which = MOS }
	}
}

I think this sequence is unnecessary. Stuff like this is what the engine emulates as royal marriage, which every player can do manually. It's not that the result of the marriage was of major importance. Also, that's an age when Lithuania and Russia frequently waged wars on each other - do we want them to become friends in late 15th-early 16th century? What I don't like is the alliance command in 210015. Russia-Lithuania-alliance is not what this event resulted in historically, and such an alliance in game could massively unbalance eastern Europe. Maybe you meant that 'dynastic' command?

And btw, I like the large goodies Crimeans receive. They should be nasty for the entire 16th century, and thus any help is apperciated to not see them mauled by their larger neighbours.

Vitold died in October of 1430, and the Lithuanian nobles has elected Jagiello's brother Svitrigaila as the new Grand Duke.

typo. have

ToMazaz · Feb 28, 2006

Herr Doctor said:
Witold (as well as Vitold, Vitoldus etc) is Latin transcription of the name. As I said I used simply those names from primary historical sources, which is in Ruthenian and Latin, in order not to make those confusion with all historical personages “ethnical” origins. You know, for example, Alexander I (Aleksandras I) was the last Grand Duke, which know and spoke Baltic language. So should those Grand Dukes before him be named in Lithuanian? And what about others then? There are a lot of confusion with all this stuff, so I just choused the “easiest” way in order not to make the things too complex and confusing.

Same with the leaders, which were both of Baltic Lithuanian and “Ruthenian” origin. For example, how would you name such cosmopolite person as Boguslaw Radziwill, which even did not speak a word in Baltic Lithuanian?

Yeah you have a point

You know as Lithuanian I just want that all the names (of Lithuanian Dukes)would be in Lithuanian, but you have a point

Herr Doctor · Mar 23, 2006

sabular said:
Perhaps these could be made into random events, possibly after an event where crimea can chose to decides whether she wants these events or not (if that is possible with random events). This would make the profit of the raids spread over time, without giving too much of an "ah, it's 12:50 again, the Tatars will raid us now" feeling. Also the continuing threat of tatar raids gives pol/lit a reason to fight them (instead of already having lost anything they could from the first event).

Wonderful idea! I made the goodies tatars received from the events much less and added those four events:

#The Tatars raids of Ruthenia#
event = {
id = 210025
trigger = {
exists = LIT
year = 1490
NOT = { year = 1550 }
}
random = yes
country = CRI
name = "The Tatars raids of Ruthenia"
desc = "There is a big yasyr we gained in Ruthenia!"
style = 1

action_a ={
name = "Let’s celebrate!"
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = treasury value = 200 }
command = { type = vp value = 10 }
command = { type = trigger which = 210027 }
}
}

#The Tatars raids of Ruthenia#
event = {
id = 210026
trigger = {
exists = POL
year = 1490
NOT = { year = 1690 }
}
random = yes
country = CRI
name = "The Tatars raids of Ruthenia"
desc = "There is a big yasyr we gained in Ruthenia!"
style = 1

action_a ={
name = "Let’s celebrate!"
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = treasury value = 200 }
command = { type = vp value = 10 }
command = { type = trigger which = 210028 }
}
}

#The Tatars raids of Ruthenia#
event = {
id = 210027
random = no
country = LIT
name = "The Tatars raids of Ruthenia"
desc = "The Tatars raid our lands…"
style = 1

action_a ={
name = "Argh!"
command = { type = stability value = -1 }
command = { type = population which = -1 value = -1000 }
command = { type = population which = -1 value = -1000 }
command = { type = population which = -1 value = -1000 }
command = { type = vp value = -10 }
}
}

#The Tatars raids of Ruthenia#
event = {
id = 210028
random = no
country = POL
name = "The Tatars raids of Ruthenia"
desc = "The Tatars raid our lands…"
style = 1

action_a ={
name = "Argh!"
command = { type = stability value = -1 }
command = { type = population which = -1 value = -1000 }
command = { type = population which = -1 value = -1000 }
command = { type = population which = -1 value = -1000 }
command = { type = vp value = -10 }
}
}

Hope that this will work

Herr Doctor · Mar 23, 2006

almoravid said:
I like most of them, so I'm only going to comment on those I have problems with.

I think stuff like this better be emulated by some nationalism in smolensk from start on.

It is not only about separatism really, but more about general instability (the final phase of civil war) in Lithuania.

almoravid said:
For the sake of game balance, I think 'Invite Kazimir' should be option_a in both events. This way, the ai will likely go back onto the historical path. Of course, in both situations, the nobles would more likely support a local dynasty, but in the game, we should ensure that Union of Lublin happens in almost every game. Otherwise, the balance in eastern europe is distorted, with Russia growing strong yet Poland and Lithuania remaining separate.

I agree here fully (fixed

). Thanks.

almoravid said:
I think this sequence is unnecessary. Stuff like this is what the engine emulates as royal marriage, which every player can do manually. It's not that the result of the marriage was of major importance. Also, that's an age when Lithuania and Russia frequently waged wars on each other - do we want them to become friends in late 15th-early 16th century? What I don't like is the alliance command in 210015. Russia-Lithuania-alliance is not what this event resulted in historically, and such an alliance in game could massively unbalance eastern Europe. Maybe you meant that 'dynastic' command?

Yeah, it supposed to be RM of course. Still I agree with you. I was in doubts about this event through the same reasons; so now I decided better to delete all this marriage affair.

almoravid said:
And btw, I like the large goodies Crimeans receive. They should be nasty for the entire 16th century, and thus any help is apperciated to not see them mauled by their larger neighbours.

I added four “random” events as sabular suggested. Hope it could help too

almoravid said:
typo.

Fixed.

Thanks for all your good comments. More events (XVI century) should come soon. The XVI-XVII centuries are full of very interesting events in Lithuanian history, so I hope I could model them quite respectively.

unmerged(40707) · Mar 24, 2006

AFAIK, random events can't trigger regular ones.

Herr Doctor · Mar 25, 2006

YodaMaster said:
AFAIK, random events can't trigger regular ones.

So trigger command will not work at all?

unmerged(52196) · Mar 25, 2006

Herr Doctor, add CB for Poland and Lithuania against Crimea as a result of raids.

Also add NOT condition for if CRI is a vassal of POL or LIT. I can't imagine the posibility that they raid their overlords.

szmik · Apr 13, 2006

YodaMaster said:
AFAIK, random events can't trigger regular ones.

so you could add them as regular ones (like those of Power of Sejm) with several triggers like mentioned above and when Poland or Lithuania are at war the raids are more likely.

unmerged(40707) · Apr 13, 2006

szmik said:
so you could add them as regular ones (like those of Power of Sejm) with several triggers like mentioned above and when Poland or Lithuania are at war the raids are more likely.

In this case, you have to duplicate events for different dates ranges, otherwise they will fire only once. Anyway, each event will fire once (if trigger met) in its time period.

szmik · Apr 13, 2006

dunno if you have thought of it but I'd like to suggest to enact Polish-Lithuanian Union even when Poland AI diploannexes Lithuania before event dates.
Something like:

event = {
id = 3738
trigger = {
NOT = { exists = LIT }
owned = { province = 288 data = -1 } #Lithuania
ai = yes
}
random = no
country = POL
name = "EVENTNAME3475" #The Act of Union-'Rzeczpospolita Polska'
desc = "EVENTHIST258001"

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1521 }
offset = 300
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1570 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME3475A" #Enact the Union
command = { type = flagname which = Union }
command = { type = addcore which = 281 } #Polotsk
command = { type = addcore which = 284 } #Belarus
command = { type = addcore which = 285 } #Smolensk
command = { type = addcore which = 287 } #Mozyr
command = { type = addcore which = 288 } #Lithuania
command = { type = addcore which = 293 } #Volyn
command = { type = addcore which = 294 } #Chernigov
command = { type = addcore which = 297 } #Podolia
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 210000 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 3447 }
command = { type = add_countryculture which = baltic }
}
}

sabular · Apr 14, 2006

szmik said:
dunno if you have thought of it but I'd like to suggest to enact Polish-Lithuanian Union even when Poland AI diploannexes Lithuania before event dates.

That seems like a good idea, although I do think Poland should have generally the same options as with the normal union (to do or not to do, west or east etc.)

szmik · Apr 14, 2006

sabular said:
That seems like a good idea, although I do think Poland should have generally the same options as with the normal union (to do or not to do, west or east etc.)

I don't think it's neccessary as they already diploannexed Lithuania, my point is they should get some cores on Lithuanian lands, baltic culture only.
Ruthenian culture cores would imho prevent creation of Ukraine.

Anazagar · Apr 14, 2006

Ruthenian culture cores would imho prevent creation of Ukraine.

but do we realy want an idependent Ukraine?? such a coutry hasnt realy existed during the game frame.

szmik · Apr 15, 2006

Anazagar said:
but do we realy want an idependent Ukraine?? such a coutry hasnt realy existed during the game frame.

I agree
but there's event which changes culture from ruthenian to ukrainian which is imho ahistorical, it would be more accurate to take ruthenian culture from Poland. Although there was possibility of appeasing Cossacks, it wasn't done because of "Power of Sejm" and empty budget. So I think with strong king (high centralization) there would be no Chmielnicki uprising, but more manpower.
People who lived there in the game time didn't have unique culture, it was mix of Polish, Lithuanian, Ruthenian, Russian, Tatar and more. Most of them were ppl who escaped from serfdom.

unmerged(19903) · Apr 15, 2006

szmik said:
I agree
but there's event which changes culture from ruthenian to ukrainian which is imho ahistorical, it would be more accurate to take ruthenian culture from Poland. Although there was possibility of appeasing Cossacks, it wasn't done because of "Power of Sejm" and empty budget. So I think with strong king (high centralization) there would be no Chmielnicki uprising, but more manpower.
People who lived there in the game time didn't have unique culture, it was mix of Polish, Lithuanian, Ruthenian, Russian, Tatar and more. Most of them were ppl who escaped from serfdom.

Yeah, I agree - imo, there should be possibility to evade negative effects of Brest-Litovsk Union event ( changing whole Ukraine territory from ruthenian to ukrainian culture ) - a lot of countries here have alternative possibilites to change historical outcomes - why not Poland/Lithuania ?

Maybe ukrainian culture should trigger only if commonwealth player would fail to resolve cossack conflict/or reform his country on time ?

sabular · Apr 18, 2006

szmik said:
I don't think it's neccessary as they already diploannexed Lithuania, my point is they should get some cores on Lithuanian lands, baltic culture only.
Ruthenian culture cores would imho prevent creation of Ukraine.

Should they also move to Orthodox tech-group?

The ukranian culture event should imho definitely be changed as it has no other options and no triggers to speak of, it is very deterministic, while in the grand scheme of things it is hardly important (compared to say, Russia forming or the dutch revolts)
Even if the event is not changed, something should perhaps be done about the culture setup, as currently not all ruthenian provinces are changed to ukranian, but some three wholly unconnected provinces stay ruthenian, which is a bit strange

Revised Lithuania

Corporal

Sergeant

Learned cat

Major

I ignore U

Sergeant

Learned cat

Learned cat

Just call me Yoda in private!

Learned cat

Captain

Libertarian

Just call me Yoda in private!

Libertarian

Major

Libertarian

emotionally retarded theif

Libertarian

Major

Major