Reviews are coming in...

[trigorin]

...and don't seem to be delighted by the game.

Empire of Sin review - intoxicating but overwhelming

There's a lot to like about this 1920s gangster sim. It's an intricately detailed game about a romanticised time. And a…

www.eurogamer.net

‘Empire Of Sin’ review: slick strategy mired by sloppy execution

Empire Of Sin is a strategy game with many brilliant layers. When it all comes together, however, the game doesn't quite hit the mark.

www.nme.com

Empire of Sin review

A mountain of issues crushes this ambitious management game.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Reban]

Let´s hope post-launch support will set It right. I have high hopes for this one.

 

[devoncop]

Sounds like apart from some quest line bugs that should be fairly straightforward to fix the bosses need quite a serious nerf if it is possible by early mid game to just go straight from one boss to another wiping them out with your upgraded boss and take over all their holdings to just drown in cash and steamroll the other gangs.

The management of your properties is pointless at that stage.

That does need addressing very quickly.

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

So a Paradox game with great potential will be taken out of the oven while it is still underbaked and released for mass consumption with a promise to fix it over time?

And two additional DLC for the game are already being presold.

Hmmmm, where have I heard this story before.

 

[Don_Leon]

Good thing i held of preordering this, will get it when its fixed and stable.

 

[devoncop]

May just refund my steam purchase and rebuy later then if it's sorted out and isn't another Imperator Rome shambles...

 

[Eber]

May just refund my steam purchase and rebuy later then if it's sorted out and isn't another Imperator Rome shambles...

To be fair, Imperator Rome became an amazing game once it was all fixed.

I'm not too surprised by the reviews. I basically expected as much. Post-game development will be a major factor in seeing this game reach its potential. I'm still keeping my preorder since I want to support Paradox and also support games that have organized crime subjects (so very few nowadays).

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

To be fair, Imperator Rome became an amazing game once it was all fixed.

I'm not too surprised by the reviews. I basically expected as much. Post-game development will be a major factor in seeing this game reach its potential. I'm still keeping my preorder since I want to support Paradox and also support games that have organized crime subjects (so very few nowadays).

With all due respect, you are the first person I have heard say that about Imperator.

However, i've seen Hearts of Iron begin as unplayable and end as awesome so I'm happy to roll the dice with them one time more.

 

[Eber]

With all due respect, you are the first person I have heard say that about Imperator.

However, i've seen Hearts of Iron begin as unplayable and end as awesome so I'm happy to roll the dice with them one time more.

It took a very, very long time for Imperator to become good, like over a year. Mods help too. My point is many Paradox games come out rough at launch. I have faith.

 

[Mafiabrett]

With all due respect, you are the first person I have heard say that about Imperator.

However, i've seen Hearts of Iron begin as unplayable and end as awesome so I'm happy to roll the dice with them one time more.

I agree, Imperator is still looks and plays like a boring bare bone game to me at the moment. Hearts of Iron 4 has gotten much beefier, but the AI still needs some massive work. When the AI completely abandons the front line or doesn't make enough divisions to defend its country while sending death stacks to Africa.. it kinda ruins any immersion. But when you have amazing mods like Kaiserreich, Old World Blues, The New Order, and Thousand Week Reich that's easily like having 4 more games all with different take on mechanics.


Empire of Sin looks interesting but I've learned from Paradox releases that its always best to wait 2 or more years before even consider buying it.

 

[Reidy]

Seems most of the Reviews are in consensus with the fact the games bare-bones are solid and it has a lot going for it... it just seems the execution of it is not up to par but i suppose that in time things will be patched up and fixed, kinda disappointing coz theres so few gangster games these days but im more than happy to wait a while before jumping in (money is an issue so i wasnt even gonna buy it for a while anyways, Cyberpunk has taken my budget for the next few months atleast.

Imperator seems to be on its feet now (to the stage that i genuinely had fun with the last few playthroughs) and it had far more serious problems with its gameplay compared to this so it bodes well for Empire of Sin considering the issues arent so serious. hopefully PDX gives Romero the space they need to build upon what they have because it could genuinely be great given enough time and love.

 

[jacktheol]

There are a lot of reviews out right now and they give the game out of 100 a score from 49-90. I have learned to read these mostly for fun and then watch some streams on twitch instead where they actually are playing the game for several hours, and then judge if the game and the genre is for me or not.
The streams I have watched so far did show some bugs but none game breaking so far.

 

[Zarine]

Reading the review, the bad points I can see the most is about combat:
- Easy with your team
- Too many (and too long) when defending with basic goons
- Easy hit on the enemy boss
- Combat a bit too slow

Nothing that cannot be solved to make it better I believe.

 

[trigorin]

Reading the review, the bad points I can see the most is about combat:
- Easy with your team
- Too many (and too long) when defending with basic goons
- Easy hit on the enemy boss
- Combat a bit too slow

Nothing that cannot be solved to make it better I believe.

Some other things are also mentioned in reviews:

• AI is illogical and random in sit-downs (diplomacy).
• Many bugged quests which break playthrough.
• The game gets boring in middle/long term.

 

[nervouspete]

I've been guardedly looking forward to this game like an associate invited to be made. All ready to step through that door, but hoping against hope that they're not waiting to whack me on the other side. Wait, that's more 1950's Mafia isn't it?

Ahem.

I've been guarded looking forward to this game like a rough and tumble James Cagney being asked to deal with that weasel criminal lawyer Humphrey Bogart. well aware that it could be mean the flourishing of a new criminal empire of speakeasies and card joints, but ready for that rat to pull a double-cross. Yeah, that'll do.

I'm going to wait a little longer and see what the early patches do and what the developer commitment is. The project does sound a labour of love, so hopefully they're already banking on going long term with it. My main concerns are...

1: The steam-rollering of the opposition. Especially the ease at which you can just whack them in their safe house or whatever.

Until the AI and mechanics are polished properly to fend off early game attempts at this police and political protection could be a handy barrier to prevent you gunning for your enemy until they've been sufficiently weakened and you've amassed enough money to have the press, police and political figures look the other way. "He must have on of those City Hall rats in his pocket!" Not getting the press on-board could mean a hit to your reputation on the streets, police could conduct more raids and add dangerous protection to their safehouse where the political cost would be too high until their presence is peacefully removed, and the political damage could lead to your businesses being shut down. The notoriety of these blatant targeted hits could also be an appropriate early-game punisher, allowing you to build up your grudges until you satisfyingly take them on mid-game.

2: Issue with tedious basic goons defence fights.

Auto-resolving defence with basic goons, and adding buffs to them in management is one way to help fix this. Speeding up animations with the good old spacebar press is another.

3: Mid-late game can get a bit boring.

Mid / late game events to shake things up would help a little. Like the mysteries from Surviving Mars.

I think this game has real promise, and I look forward to playing it. I hope the issues are addressed. It's not looking like a must-buy for me at the moment, but as I dearly love the 1920's Warner Brothers gangster flick genre, I am praying that this game continues to be developed..

 

[trigorin]

I think it's also worrysome:

"I’ve been playing with the ‘Day One’ patch installed on PC – due to certification, this will released as a ‘Day Seven’ patch on 9th December for PS4 and Xbox One, and on 15th December on Switch – but the next update is expected in January to bundle in fixes for known issues and tweaks for those highlighted through player feedback."

So it's the relase version of the game we can expect. Some feedback on it:

"I’ve spent around 17 hours with the game on standard difficulty, and during that time, some incredible highlights have been dulled by a nagging feeling that things aren’t quite working as intended. Rivals frequently make stupid combat descisions, so a lot of fights effectively play themselves, while the nemesis-style character interactions the game is capable of occur rarely and sporadically. Enemy factions are too passive, not expanding aggressively, or even making use of many of the game’s (admirably extensive) diplomacy features."

"A few crashes I can let slip, but I’ve played more than one quest that forced me to load an old save and make different story choices because the other route is broken and stops me progressing."

Empire of Sin Review in Progress | TheSixthAxis

Speaking easy.

www.thesixthaxis.com

 

[gunnergoz]

I expect game breaking bugs to be set upon immediately by the development team. They must already be aware of most of them. Some may have to do with particular CPU/GPU combinations and OS/driver configurations. If we are still talking about these same bugs in a week or two, then that would be disappointing.

 

[Mauer]

The issue with releasing unfinished games is that by the time Paradox puts in the time to fix things and build up on the game, however good the game becomes, people are simply no longer interested and sales of further DLC remain lackluster, so whatever potential the game had is wasted and developers and publisher move on to something else.

 

[Eber]

The issue with releasing unfinished games is that by the time Paradox puts in the time to fix things and build up on the game, however good the game becomes, people are simply no longer interested and sales of further DLC remain lackluster, so whatever potential the game had is wasted and developers and publisher move on to something else.

I agree with you but I don't consider this game unfinished. At least, in the sense that all proposed features for the release of the game were not considered included. Yes, it has bugs, but a bug is not the same as a new feature. There's no way to include every single feature that a developer may want to add before the release of a game. Not only would that continue to push the release date but you have to consider budget/income. Eventually the game needs to start earning money and not just losing money.

A DLC structure exist so games potentially have the ability to continue to add features that could not be included in the release. This is a win-win for users and developers. Yes, sometimes this can be used to the developer's advantage if certain features are indeed pushed, but overall I think abuse is relatively low in the game community. With that said, you are right that a developer does indeed lose some people that get tired of the game, but it also gains new people that see a game is still being supported and updated by the developers. And for some users, like myself, I may put the game down but then pick it back up when DLC is released.

 

[monsterfurby]

We'll see how Romero Games handle this. Before using the Clausewitz titles as a reference, remember: this is not developed by Paradox, so Imperator or HoI aren't really realistic benchmarks.