Revenge - AI must swear it sometimes

[Fletz]

So it happened. Yesterday in the Dev-Stream King Alfonso VI from Leon kidnapped the King of France. Later on he tortured him and he "died in captivity".

What will happen? I guess the heir and new King of France (a Kid) gets a significant opinion-malus on King Alfonso because he killed one of his family.

What I would wish that actually happens:
-) This incredible example of cruelty without cause should have consequences! At least a casus belli for France.
-) the Heir of the tortured dead King should swear revenge! -> a certain AI-program for the Heir should get activated which makes revenge to the main target -> preparing all his lifetime for real revenge (war and killing King Alfonso).

I guess such a logic is not implemented in the game but should in a future update.

What do you think?

 

[LightningFarm]

I do like the idea of a special CB, together with an opinion malus. Not sure what you should get from the CB, other than killing the target. Perhaps some renown, together with the target dynasty loosing some?

 

[Battlex]

So it happened. Yesterday in the Dev-Stream King Alfonso VI from Leon kidnapped the King of France. Later on he tortured him and he "died in captivity".

What will happen? I guess the heir and new King of France (a Kid) gets a significant opinion-malus on King Alfonso because he killed one of his family.

What I would wish that actually happens:
-) This incredible example of cruelty without cause should have consequences! At least a casus belli for France.
-) the Heir of the tortured dead King should swear revenge! -> a certain AI-program for the Heir should get activated which makes revenge to the main target -> preparing all his lifetime for real revenge (war and killing King Alfonso).

I guess such a logic will not be implemented in the game but should in a future update.

What do you think?

Ck2 you could become rivals with the children of their parent you murdered in a plot, and there was the rivalry CB, there's a "murdered close kin" opinion modifier no?

 

[Fletz]

I dont remember any rivalry CB... thx for the info.

 

[LightningFarm]

Ck2 you could become rivals with the children of their parent you murdered in a plot, and there was the rivalry CB, there's a "murdered close kin" opinion modifier no?

Yeah, but the King in this situation was kidnapped, not murdered in a plot.
Perhpas something is already in, but we did not see it, because the plot fired without anyone knowing the involvement

 

[Battlex]

I dont remember any rivalry CB... thx for the info.

Start Charlemagne start date, you quickly become rivals with him via event, then right click, declare war, rivalry. Its the easiest way to get the achievement if you haven't already got it

 

[Drazer]

Revenge should be something that acts more on the AI than anything else. The game should keep track of all insults possible (murder, title ursurp, etc) and make the AI much more agressive towards someone like that.

If the AI starts playing like a human (murder, fabricating, getting allies that would help invade the rival), it would be even better.

 

[Evangeline]

I agree!

 

[Fletz]

Revenge should be something that acts more on the AI than anything else. The game should keep track of all insults possible (murder, title ursurp, etc) and make the AI much more agressive towards someone like that.

If the AI starts playing like a human (murder, fabricating, getting allies that would help invade the rival), it would be even better.

BLOODTHIRSTY REVENGEFUL CRUSADER KINGS 3 -> HARDCORE GAMEPLAY

 

[CyberianK]

I guess we need "Klingon AI" game rules

 

[Tuo]

Notice the line "Grows closer to forming a rivalry with you" - it would seem multiple hostile actions may together cause a rivalry between characters, rather than just through single outrageous actions like murdering close kin of the rival-to-be, or events. Remains to be seen if rivalry has a significant effect on behavior beyond the opinion modifier, though.

 

[Fletz]

Notice the line "Grows closer to forming a rivalry with you" - it would seem multiple hostile actions may together cause a rivalry between characters, rather than just through single outrageous actions like murdering close kin of the rival-to-be, or events. Remains to be seen if rivalry has a significant effect on behavior beyond the opinion modifier, though.

I can tell you if you would spontaneously kidnap my father right now and torture him and letting him die in your captivity... you can consider me as your rival for sure! No more hostile actions needed. I hope the game works this way and considers also hostile actions against my closest family members.

 

[Battlex]

I can tell you if you would spontaneously kidnap my father right now and torture him and letting him die in your captivity... you can consider me as your rival for sure! No more hostile actions needed. I hope the game works this way and considers also hostile actions against my closest family members.

But what if you had a bad relationship with your dad, and his death meant you could take the kingdom you lusted after that easily

 

[Fletz]

But what if you had a bad relationship with your dad, and his death meant you could take the kingdom you lusted after that easily

I asked myself the same thing right now. But even if I dislike my father I would be pissed of that you just hurt someone of my family... its painful embarrassing for my dynasty and I need my revenge!

 

[Evangeline]

The thing is: he'd been kidnapped, right? So I think nobody knew who had him or where the king had vanished to. This may explain the lack of negative opinion - I hope.

 

[Fletz]

The thing is: he'd been kidnapped, right? So I think nobody knew who had him or where the king had vanished to. This may explain the lack of negative opinion - I hope.

But then, when you release him (in exchange for money for example) or if he breaks out, then its known and should have consequences!

 

[Pied-Noir]

Yes, it seems very strange that you can kidnap and murder the king of France and face no apparent retribution for it. Odd.

 

[ShadyGuy_SuspiciousGoal]

Yes, it seems very strange that you can kidnap and murder the king of France and face no apparent retribution for it. Odd.

But it also seems strange to be punished for something you did that no one knows about. So if France found out that he did it and didn't do jack, then it's strange. Otherwise this is perfectly normal.

 

[jere8184]

But it also seems strange to be punished for something you did that no one knows about. So if France found out that he did it and didn't do jack, then it's strange. Otherwise this is perfectly normal.

I dont think thats how the game works. It is common knowledge where a character is imprisoned and who they are imprisoned by.

 

[Riamus]

I dont think thats how the game works. It is common knowledge where a character is imprisoned and who they are imprisoned by.

True in CK2 and probably true in CK3, though I don't think we've seen that for certain yet. But it shouldn't be true. If someone is kidnapped and no one finds out, then there should not be a way to know who did it. Considering CK3 has the new kidnap feature, they may have made changes to reflect that.

But even if you "know" who has the person, if the game states that it's still a secret, then there should not be any repercussions. However, if the secret is discovered, there should absolutely be some severe consequences and not just the opinion penalty we saw in CK2 when you got caught murdering (or attempting to murder) someone. Those penalties could pretty much be ignored as long as it wasn't a powerful vassal or your liege, and even then you could often ignore them.

Anyhow, based on the stream, no one knew what happened to the king and perhaps never even found out that he died (he wasn't actually killed; he died a "natural" death after being tortured, succumbing to his injuries). Of course, in game terms, the game has to treat the dead person as dead even if no one had any way to find out for sure that the person was dead or still in captivity. But as with the kidnapping, if it's still shown as a secret, then it should be treated as such.