Premise
The technology currently in CK2 is very disconnected from the base game. The only interaction with the characters, the main focus of the game, is that the ruler passively generates points without much input, button clicks to increase technology and waiting for it to spread.
The main ideas I looked for in this system were:
Overview
When you think of people and technology the first what comes to mind are famous inventors. Archimedes, Michelangelo, and so on. And even though not all (or most) inventions can be traced back to their inventor, who after all remembers the name of the person who invented the stirrup, I think using a system of inventors would be perfect with CK2.
When you have inventors you also need inventions. It is not very immersive if your genius inventor discovers Castle Walls II after all. Paradox has already a invention driven game with Victoria II. In that game you do research base technologies, but the real benefits happen with inventions which randomly happen once their base technology is researched.
Base idea
The basic structure would follow Victoria 2. You would still have levels like Heavy Infantry II. If they are still researched with research points like now is out of scope of this proposal and left to Paradox, including if the technology has to spread or not or if it is now inventions that spread.
The levels would only give a minor benefit though. The vast majority of modifiers or building unlocks come from inventions like the pike or
beam balance scales. Unlike Victoria 2 though they do not happen randomly after the base level is researched (although some RNG in is involved), they have to be researched by actual characters ranging from Michelangelo like geniuses to expert commanders.
Inventors
There are several ways how inventors can be modelled in the game.
You can have them as councillor job. You already have this in the form of research jobs for them. The marshal even has a small event chain which would be a good starting point of how research can be implemented. The advantage is that you can achieve a more or less steady research rate and have a replacement for the possibly not required research jobs
The other idea is to have inventor as honorary title (maybe also multiple ones). The advantage of that is that you do not affect the council system so it is more easy to add on top of the existing game and you can model the cost of research better by having them require a salary. I am more partial to this system as it combines better with several ideas listed below.
The quality of inventors are a combination of their learning ability plus their ability associated with a invention, their education trait (some inventions require a certain education no matter the score) and traits.
Acquiring inventions
There should be several ways to acquire inventions to not rail-road people into a certain way and to model history.
- Research
This would be the main method of acquiring inventions. Once a new level of technology is researched your researcher can start a event chain for an invention. This event chain would similar be to artefact hunting with the researcher making steady progress with intermingled events allowing you to steer the direction of the research and give various levels of help at different costs. Unlike artefact hunting the chance to fail should be lower (but still there in case of catastrophic accidents) and you are mainly modifying the time it takes to invent it.
The time it takes to invent something depends on the skill of the inventor, the tech level (high level research is automatically harder), the historic date penalty in addition to the increase per level and outside factors.
Outside factors include things like neighbours having the invention, or fighting (and winning) against enemies with a weapon you do not have. Events can also modify the progress of a invention.
Some invention should require a minimum skill to research at all or the progress should be very slow until the skill is reached or the difficulty goes down be neighbour bonuses and being behind the historic time.
- Espionage
It is possible to steal inventions from others. Historic examples would be how monks smuggled silkworms out of chine to the Byzantine empire (although not technically an invention).
For balance reasons though it should also be quite costly and dangerous. Also it might still be a bit unbalanced if you either get nothing or the complete invention. While both outcomes should be possible, the more normal one should be a boost to the invention progress.
- Conquest
Warmongers should be able to to gain inventions through conquest, although at a much reduced rate. Also, it should always come at a cost. For example hen you conquer a city with better walls then what you can build the only chance to find out how they are build is to tear them down (unless your marshal/inventor is genius/very knowledgeable, then he might make progress without destroying them although you should not know if that happens before giving the order.
Again for balance reasons gaining the invention should not be immediate but just give progress.
- Trade
The last method is to flat out buy the invention from other nations that have them. That is quite powerful as you gain the invention instantly, so the AI should refuse selling state of the art inventions and depending on its current interest not only ask for a lot of money but also land, marriages, etc.
Types of inventions
Invention is a broad term and can equally represent physical items like a new weapon or equipment (halberd for example), new production or construction techniques or even ideas to cover the cultural tech tree. As such instead of spreading out benefits equally like now (for example every cavalry tech adding 7,5% combat power) different technology levels would offer different inventions with their own bonuses. That would make individual technologies more recognizable when you for example know that long pikes give +20% pikemen offensive which becomes available at Heavy Infantry V (random number, I do not know what would be historical) while tech level 3 and 4 had no inventions benefiting pikemen.
Although care must be taken not to unbalance the game by creating inventions that are a must have.
You can also expand the role of inventions. Certain tactics can also be locked behind inventions and some inventions might be cultural specific. For example only steppe nomads can research composite bows which are required for improved volley tactics.
You can also have "ancient" technology, leftovers from the Roman Empire, which exist at the start of the game, but once they are lost they are gone for good (or require a very rare epic event chain to rediscover). Greek Fire would be such a technology.
With technology not being researched by a button press, the loss of inventions can now be modelled. It should not be common, but a real possibility if something catastrophic happens. That can mean the realm shattering (see what you can do to the byzantines with Holy Fury and the 4th crusade) or the black death combined with wars. Imo the aim should be to it happening at most 2-3 per game unless you have really bad luck. What happens is that you lose access to that invention and have to reacquire it.
This ties in with the optional/dlc content below and depending on testing results should only be enabled with the DLC or not.
Other bonus
When there is no invention to research there still should be benefits to having inventors. That could include increase the speed for researching the next technology level or produce pieces of art and other gadgets you can trade away for gold (or let them generate gold directly by MTTH events).
Optional/DLC contend - Universities
For this optional content I looked at how hospitals are part of Reapers Due and how diseases work with and without the DLC. Technology would work the same way. A simpler version without the DLC and the full version with it.
University basics
I use university as a catch all term for a buildings that house inventors no matter if they are actual universities (would be the very high level form), the workshop of a gifted craftsmen or just a hut for the elders who have nothing to do than to think.
Universities would be an extra building similar to hospitals with a main building upgrade and several smaller upgrades dependent on the main building.
Unlike hospitals, universities have their own court of inventors (capacity increased by the main building). Without inventors the university is useless.
Also, while hospitals give a permanent benefit universities should cost not only upkeep but also be a source of minor negative events and temporary modifiers to balance out the benefits.
The main benefit of universities is a increase in invention progress and chance with many mid and late game inventions requiring universities to have a realistic chance to be discovered and serve as a safeguard for technology loss. As long as the university has a copy of the invention you can't lose it.
That also means universities are a good place to spy (upgrades and laws can help you defend against that) and a profitable source to plunder.
Side benefits include as a gathering place you can have access to inventors of other cultures and you gain some money from tuition fees, but that at best only covers the running fees with a little bit of extra.
Each university has a "innovativeness" value and spy defense. Innovativeness is calculated by the quality of the inventors in its court, some side upgrade, laws and the diversity of the inventors (having different cultures and religions within give a bonus).
Spy defense depends on upgrades, laws and your spymaster.
Each inventor inside researches independently on inventions with the added bonus of the university although big combined events like with the hermetic society are also possible. If a invention is made both the owner of the university and the liege of the inventor (see below) receives a copy of this invention, one housed in the university and the other ar the court.
University laws
Access to the university is governt by a new set of laws. You can restrict it to only your country, your culture, your religion or everyone. A more diverse university performs better and outsiders also pay money to be at the university to cover some of the operating cost.
The more open a university is, the more easy it is to steal from it on the other hand. Also there is always the danger that an future enemy benefits from your university.
University access
For small realms that can't afford a university, especially a higher level one which can be quite costly, there is the option to send your inventor to a foreign university if its owner allows it. That costs money but far less than owning the university. Your inventor there benefits from all improvements made but only gets access to the inventions he personally made and the owner of the university also gets a copy.
Owners of universities can also try to hire inventors of other nations similar to the "Join Court" interaction but depending on the quality of the inventor it is very expensive and causes a relation loss.
Inventors in foreign univesities also have the possibility of stealing inventions contained in it. This either replaces the spymasters attempt to steal technology or is cheaper and less involved. Of course there are risks starting with being banshed and ending with torture, death and severly strained relations.
And of course there is the usual court intrigue going on inside the university which you can expect when you have a lot of big egos in a small room.
Conclusion
A long read, I hope nobody fell asleep during it.
A invention based technology system with inventors actively pursuing specific inventions would in my opinion increase immersion and focus more on the cornerstone of CK2. It would also allow to model certain historic events like technology loss better.
Universities look like good DLC content and add a new layer to the realm and interactions.
So, what do you think? Is this something you want to see in CK2/3?
The technology currently in CK2 is very disconnected from the base game. The only interaction with the characters, the main focus of the game, is that the ruler passively generates points without much input, button clicks to increase technology and waiting for it to spread.
The main ideas I looked for in this system were:
- Character driven
- More immersive than having Heavy Infantry I, Heavy Infantry II, etc.
- Able to replicate technology loss without it being devastating or frustrating
- Connected to the above, able to replicate events like the sacking of Baghdad had on the technology of a nation
- Possibility of DLC content (yes, Paradox has to make money)
Overview
When you think of people and technology the first what comes to mind are famous inventors. Archimedes, Michelangelo, and so on. And even though not all (or most) inventions can be traced back to their inventor, who after all remembers the name of the person who invented the stirrup, I think using a system of inventors would be perfect with CK2.
When you have inventors you also need inventions. It is not very immersive if your genius inventor discovers Castle Walls II after all. Paradox has already a invention driven game with Victoria II. In that game you do research base technologies, but the real benefits happen with inventions which randomly happen once their base technology is researched.
Base idea
The basic structure would follow Victoria 2. You would still have levels like Heavy Infantry II. If they are still researched with research points like now is out of scope of this proposal and left to Paradox, including if the technology has to spread or not or if it is now inventions that spread.
The levels would only give a minor benefit though. The vast majority of modifiers or building unlocks come from inventions like the pike or
beam balance scales. Unlike Victoria 2 though they do not happen randomly after the base level is researched (although some RNG in is involved), they have to be researched by actual characters ranging from Michelangelo like geniuses to expert commanders.
- Tech level only unlocks the availability of inventions
- Specific inventions give the main benefit of a technology level
- Inventions have to be researched by characters and not bought with points
Inventors
There are several ways how inventors can be modelled in the game.
You can have them as councillor job. You already have this in the form of research jobs for them. The marshal even has a small event chain which would be a good starting point of how research can be implemented. The advantage is that you can achieve a more or less steady research rate and have a replacement for the possibly not required research jobs
The other idea is to have inventor as honorary title (maybe also multiple ones). The advantage of that is that you do not affect the council system so it is more easy to add on top of the existing game and you can model the cost of research better by having them require a salary. I am more partial to this system as it combines better with several ideas listed below.
The quality of inventors are a combination of their learning ability plus their ability associated with a invention, their education trait (some inventions require a certain education no matter the score) and traits.
Acquiring inventions
There should be several ways to acquire inventions to not rail-road people into a certain way and to model history.
- Research
This would be the main method of acquiring inventions. Once a new level of technology is researched your researcher can start a event chain for an invention. This event chain would similar be to artefact hunting with the researcher making steady progress with intermingled events allowing you to steer the direction of the research and give various levels of help at different costs. Unlike artefact hunting the chance to fail should be lower (but still there in case of catastrophic accidents) and you are mainly modifying the time it takes to invent it.
The time it takes to invent something depends on the skill of the inventor, the tech level (high level research is automatically harder), the historic date penalty in addition to the increase per level and outside factors.
Outside factors include things like neighbours having the invention, or fighting (and winning) against enemies with a weapon you do not have. Events can also modify the progress of a invention.
Some invention should require a minimum skill to research at all or the progress should be very slow until the skill is reached or the difficulty goes down be neighbour bonuses and being behind the historic time.
- Espionage
It is possible to steal inventions from others. Historic examples would be how monks smuggled silkworms out of chine to the Byzantine empire (although not technically an invention).
For balance reasons though it should also be quite costly and dangerous. Also it might still be a bit unbalanced if you either get nothing or the complete invention. While both outcomes should be possible, the more normal one should be a boost to the invention progress.
- Conquest
Warmongers should be able to to gain inventions through conquest, although at a much reduced rate. Also, it should always come at a cost. For example hen you conquer a city with better walls then what you can build the only chance to find out how they are build is to tear them down (unless your marshal/inventor is genius/very knowledgeable, then he might make progress without destroying them although you should not know if that happens before giving the order.
Again for balance reasons gaining the invention should not be immediate but just give progress.
- Trade
The last method is to flat out buy the invention from other nations that have them. That is quite powerful as you gain the invention instantly, so the AI should refuse selling state of the art inventions and depending on its current interest not only ask for a lot of money but also land, marriages, etc.
Types of inventions
Invention is a broad term and can equally represent physical items like a new weapon or equipment (halberd for example), new production or construction techniques or even ideas to cover the cultural tech tree. As such instead of spreading out benefits equally like now (for example every cavalry tech adding 7,5% combat power) different technology levels would offer different inventions with their own bonuses. That would make individual technologies more recognizable when you for example know that long pikes give +20% pikemen offensive which becomes available at Heavy Infantry V (random number, I do not know what would be historical) while tech level 3 and 4 had no inventions benefiting pikemen.
Although care must be taken not to unbalance the game by creating inventions that are a must have.
You can also expand the role of inventions. Certain tactics can also be locked behind inventions and some inventions might be cultural specific. For example only steppe nomads can research composite bows which are required for improved volley tactics.
You can also have "ancient" technology, leftovers from the Roman Empire, which exist at the start of the game, but once they are lost they are gone for good (or require a very rare epic event chain to rediscover). Greek Fire would be such a technology.
- Inventions do not raise something X% every tech level but represent milestones which give a bigger benefit
- Inventions can give combat or opinion bonuses, unlock specific buildings, laws and in addition to now things like tactics
- Some inventions are tied to specific cultures
- Some inventions can't be researched and when lost are lost forever barring exceptional events
With technology not being researched by a button press, the loss of inventions can now be modelled. It should not be common, but a real possibility if something catastrophic happens. That can mean the realm shattering (see what you can do to the byzantines with Holy Fury and the 4th crusade) or the black death combined with wars. Imo the aim should be to it happening at most 2-3 per game unless you have really bad luck. What happens is that you lose access to that invention and have to reacquire it.
This ties in with the optional/dlc content below and depending on testing results should only be enabled with the DLC or not.
Other bonus
When there is no invention to research there still should be benefits to having inventors. That could include increase the speed for researching the next technology level or produce pieces of art and other gadgets you can trade away for gold (or let them generate gold directly by MTTH events).
Optional/DLC contend - Universities
For this optional content I looked at how hospitals are part of Reapers Due and how diseases work with and without the DLC. Technology would work the same way. A simpler version without the DLC and the full version with it.
University basics
I use university as a catch all term for a buildings that house inventors no matter if they are actual universities (would be the very high level form), the workshop of a gifted craftsmen or just a hut for the elders who have nothing to do than to think.
Universities would be an extra building similar to hospitals with a main building upgrade and several smaller upgrades dependent on the main building.
Unlike hospitals, universities have their own court of inventors (capacity increased by the main building). Without inventors the university is useless.
Also, while hospitals give a permanent benefit universities should cost not only upkeep but also be a source of minor negative events and temporary modifiers to balance out the benefits.
The main benefit of universities is a increase in invention progress and chance with many mid and late game inventions requiring universities to have a realistic chance to be discovered and serve as a safeguard for technology loss. As long as the university has a copy of the invention you can't lose it.
That also means universities are a good place to spy (upgrades and laws can help you defend against that) and a profitable source to plunder.
Side benefits include as a gathering place you can have access to inventors of other cultures and you gain some money from tuition fees, but that at best only covers the running fees with a little bit of extra.
- Universities have their own court of inventors working within
- Universities have a running cost
- They safeguard inventions as they contain copies of them
- They increase the invention progress and chance
- Better inventions require university support to be researchable at all
- When plundered they give wealth and progress
- Great place to steal inventions
Each university has a "innovativeness" value and spy defense. Innovativeness is calculated by the quality of the inventors in its court, some side upgrade, laws and the diversity of the inventors (having different cultures and religions within give a bonus).
Spy defense depends on upgrades, laws and your spymaster.
Each inventor inside researches independently on inventions with the added bonus of the university although big combined events like with the hermetic society are also possible. If a invention is made both the owner of the university and the liege of the inventor (see below) receives a copy of this invention, one housed in the university and the other ar the court.
University laws
Access to the university is governt by a new set of laws. You can restrict it to only your country, your culture, your religion or everyone. A more diverse university performs better and outsiders also pay money to be at the university to cover some of the operating cost.
The more open a university is, the more easy it is to steal from it on the other hand. Also there is always the danger that an future enemy benefits from your university.
University access
For small realms that can't afford a university, especially a higher level one which can be quite costly, there is the option to send your inventor to a foreign university if its owner allows it. That costs money but far less than owning the university. Your inventor there benefits from all improvements made but only gets access to the inventions he personally made and the owner of the university also gets a copy.
Owners of universities can also try to hire inventors of other nations similar to the "Join Court" interaction but depending on the quality of the inventor it is very expensive and causes a relation loss.
Inventors in foreign univesities also have the possibility of stealing inventions contained in it. This either replaces the spymasters attempt to steal technology or is cheaper and less involved. Of course there are risks starting with being banshed and ending with torture, death and severly strained relations.
And of course there is the usual court intrigue going on inside the university which you can expect when you have a lot of big egos in a small room.
Conclusion
A long read, I hope nobody fell asleep during it.
A invention based technology system with inventors actively pursuing specific inventions would in my opinion increase immersion and focus more on the cornerstone of CK2. It would also allow to model certain historic events like technology loss better.
Universities look like good DLC content and add a new layer to the realm and interactions.
So, what do you think? Is this something you want to see in CK2/3?
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