Returning to CK2 after long break struggling with Conclave Mechanics

[Chuske]

I played this game a bit in the past but only really did the Newbie Ireland thing and never mastered playing as a vassal or non-Catholic/Feudal.

I did just get Conclave and Reapers Due DLC (and others in Christmas sale) and struggling to work out how to do things with the new council and law mechanics. I prefer to start small and tried being a vassal count in Poland but didn't make any progress, so gave up and think I'll return to Ireland to get used to new DLC as indpendent before trying a vassal start again.



So I need help/advice for Conclave on when starting small (ie count with 1 or two counties) in Ireland particular (DLC is Rome, Way of Life, Conclave, Reapers Due, Old Gods, Sons Abraham, Charlemagne & Republic) :-

1) How to deal with baron/bishop vassals on the council. Fire or keep? I can often employ someone better but firing results in massive negative opinion hitting income and levy (good news is no factions as a count).

2) A lot of guides suggest when small to focus on high skill council and go for absolute power. Problem here is that it takes ages to get absolute power as need to pass several laws first such as Imprisonment, War etc before can abolish the council.

3) How to earn cash? Unless I keep my mayor and bishop happy my income sucks, unless they are skilled enough to be on the council this is tricky. Before Conclave I often revoked my bishop but hard to do now as need law change.

4) I have no idea what to do with the many new laws and what to go for first nor what best in Vassal Obligations (ie Tax vs Levy)? ie Do I go realm laws first, centralisaton, revoke, or tweak vassal obligation tax/levy or council laws to slowly abolish the council? Again I'm looking for strategy suggestions for independent count.

5) Character Way of LIfe focus. I tried Carousing to get opinion boost but often target would say no which made things worse. How to get them to attend or is this RNG? What are good alternatives? If I'm starting independent I need a lot of small wars so maybe business to fund war or warfare to up martial is better anyway?

6) Ambition I'm thinking War Chest is prob best at start? Or maybe Realm Prosper?

7) Council who to favour stat wise? Need to fabricate unless I can somehow marry into a claim or title. But need money and troops too, so cant ignore Steward and Marshal?

8) What are other ways to gain territory and claims while a count than Fabricate? Pressing claims doesn't work as not superior rank (need to get Duchy to press counties and make claimant vassal). Getting a marraige into another county in Ireland not always easy or am I missing a trick here?

9) What might be a good start to play after Ireland, after I get back up to speed?

 

[Bulldog773]

I always say jump in the deep end and you will learn to swim Lol. I would suggest getting away from the independnet and try starting as a duke. That way you can learn the conclave system, its more forgiving and marrying a daugher of your liege or the daughter of another duke in the same kingdom is easily achievable. It will also offer you some protection if you screw things up with one or two of your counts in the conclave system. Conclave is a bkast once you get the hang of it. Good luck

 

[Serenity84]

Start as a duke maybe. Playing as a count can be a bit boring

A lot of guides suggest when small to focus on high skill council and go for absolute power. Problem here is that it takes ages to get absolute power as need to pass several laws first such as Imprisonment, War etc before can abolish the council.

Being able to pass laws at will is nice, but having a council is not as bad as some people claim. In the long run you don't change laws that often. It's also a good way to control factions as powerful vassals usually can't faction

How to earn cash?

You won't make much money as a feudal count. Period. Business focus has some nice events that give you money.

I have no idea what to do with the many new laws and what to go for first nor what best in Vassal Obligations (ie Tax vs Levy)?

Title revocation and centralization (if you need the demesne)

Character Way of LIfe focus. I tried Carousing to get opinion boost but often target would say no which made things worse. How to get them to attend or is this RNG? What are good alternatives? If I'm starting independent I need a lot of small wars so maybe business to fund war or warfare to up martial is better anyway?

They all have their uses. Business has some nice events that give you a lot of money. War is good if your martial stat isn't good and allows you to upgrade your martial education if you have it. Hunting is good later in life for the health bonus and can get rid of stressed. Theology also gives you extra health, can get rid of stressed and other negative traits, and can give you good traits. Scholarship allows you build an observatory once per ruler for tech points

What might be a good start to play after Ireland, after I get back up to speed?

Duchess of Tuscany or Duke of Apulia

 

[Soladept]

Conclave actualy buffed feudal taxation, taxes for feudal vassals used to be a default of zero, with conclave it was raised to 10% at the default resting point

 

[AlexArgos]

I actually believe that starting as a count can at times become more difficult than starting as an emperor; but that is just me.

As a general suggestion for baron vassals you can't revoke, I would say to keep murdering them until a good one auto-generates. But once you have the option to revoke you could pick the WoL intrigue focus and "spy on" them in order to find reasons to revoke so you don't get tyranny penalties. But, if you have enough personal levy to withstand possible rebellions, you could just revoke all of them and appoint yes-men in their pace.

As a final note I would say that when I'm starting small I have now come to rely heavily on the new CBs introduced with Jade Dragon and the Sway/Antagonize mechanic of Holy Fury.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

I played this game a bit in the past but only really did the Newbie Ireland thing and never mastered playing as a vassal or non-Catholic/Feudal.

I did just get Conclave and Reapers Due DLC (and others in Christmas sale) and struggling to work out how to do things with the new council and law mechanics. I prefer to start small and tried being a vassal count in Poland but didn't make any progress, so gave up and think I'll return to Ireland to get used to new DLC as indpendent before trying a vassal start again.



So I need help/advice for Conclave on when starting small (ie count with 1 or two counties) in Ireland particular (DLC is Rome, Way of Life, Conclave, Reapers Due, Old Gods, Sons Abraham, Charlemagne & Republic) :-

1) How to deal with baron/bishop vassals on the council. Fire or keep? I can often employ someone better but firing results in massive negative opinion hitting income and levy (good news is no factions as a count).

2) A lot of guides suggest when small to focus on high skill council and go for absolute power. Problem here is that it takes ages to get absolute power as need to pass several laws first such as Imprisonment, War etc before can abolish the council.

3) How to earn cash? Unless I keep my mayor and bishop happy my income sucks, unless they are skilled enough to be on the council this is tricky. Before Conclave I often revoked my bishop but hard to do now as need law change.

4) I have no idea what to do with the many new laws and what to go for first nor what best in Vassal Obligations (ie Tax vs Levy)? ie Do I go realm laws first, centralisaton, revoke, or tweak vassal obligation tax/levy or council laws to slowly abolish the council? Again I'm looking for strategy suggestions for independent count.

5) Character Way of LIfe focus. I tried Carousing to get opinion boost but often target would say no which made things worse. How to get them to attend or is this RNG? What are good alternatives? If I'm starting independent I need a lot of small wars so maybe business to fund war or warfare to up martial is better anyway?

6) Ambition I'm thinking War Chest is prob best at start? Or maybe Realm Prosper?

7) Council who to favour stat wise? Need to fabricate unless I can somehow marry into a claim or title. But need money and troops too, so cant ignore Steward and Marshal?

8) What are other ways to gain territory and claims while a count than Fabricate? Pressing claims doesn't work as not superior rank (need to get Duchy to press counties and make claimant vassal). Getting a marraige into another county in Ireland not always easy or am I missing a trick here?

9) What might be a good start to play after Ireland, after I get back up to speed?

1. Barons honestly don't matter. They're not going to faction against you regardless, so just fire if you do not mind the income/troop loss (remember negative opinion usually means little to no troop/tax.) Not too much of a concern if the councillor you are getting is massively superior.

2. 5 years each. That's not really forever when you are operating in Ireland. Takes about as long to fabricate claims and save up the money for mercs, really. Just ask for council support from random people and then fire them from the council after the vote suceeds.

3. Get the law changed via asking for support, then revoke away.

4. Vassal obligations don't really matter at count level. Your vassals are barons. For fuedal (castles) you would prefer levies just as much as the vassal AI would prefer taxes. Opposite for cities. It's really up to you whether you want a larger army or more money. Just be aware that balanced typically gives you the "most" of both. Again though not really relevant at count level (maybe city taxes.) You should instead focus on increasing centralization to your preferred desmense size, getting revoke titles law passed, and/or getting late fuedal admin for succession.

5. Carousing is an iffy one for getting the realm to like you. They typically don't join unless over 35 opinion to begin with. Business focus is typically your best bet as a small count. Take that focus at least until the trade route event fires. After that I have preference for the learning/theology focus, but no other focus compares to business for small realms.

6. I would pick realm prosper. It's not like you are going to be at war with others in Ireland within 5 years barring very good luck with claim fabrication. The extra stewardship helps with getting funding for mercs.

7. Pick whoever is the highest, with priority to Marshal and then Steward. Just dump you "powerful" baron vassals in the other council positions if you want to stay on their good side.

8. Tributary wars. Just make tributaries of everyone on the island except the guy you are fabricating on. Once you get to duchy level use force vassalization. Force vassalization CB in particular is just broken, really. HRE in 1066 usually has Poland and Hungary under their thumb because of this.

9. Duke of Apulia in Sicily. Best beginner start if you want dynamic gameplay. Rich kingdom, lots of stuff happening in the vicinity. You border two giant buffer states, have weak areas to expand to (Africa,) and weak(er) kingdoms nearby that you can practice marriage claims on (Croatia, Serbia, Hungary.) The only drawback to this start is it is relatively difficult to form a de jure empire, requiring you to face off against either buffer state.

 

[Chuske]

Nice replies here, thanks very much guys. This game has always seemed epic but I never really mastered it and often was just letting time pass waiting for something to happen rather than feeling like I was in control of events at all.

Most of the good beginner guides are dated as written before recent key DLC. Particularly I had trouble finding guides to strategies to use or consider, so this will be a big help in getting back into things to fill in the gaps my "research". Youtube guides too much of time sink, I'd rather play than spends hours watching someone else play, so I mainly looked for written guides or threads and did find some useful stuff but not much on Conclave small start strategies.

So I'll get myself to King of Ireland then as soon as I get bored of that I'll try the Duke of Apulia start

 

[King Travis]

Try not to get too much help, a lot of what's fun about CK2 is failing and trying dumb stuff out. I am back after maybe 4 dlc's I've missed (kachinggggg $$ ) and its been interesting

Its always fun trying to figure out if something is a bug or a feature. Its part of the meta