I did it in a year once, but they'd been fighting Japan for 3 years and I'd months since beaten the UK. So maybe it doesn't count.trekaddict said:
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Indeed a very nicely written moving scene. Again the scene with Eric proofs the fact that Otto is a wise man instead of his 'dreaming of adventure' brother. Not that I have anything against Helmut but still...he is a bit youthfull.
trekaddict(1): Perhaps this will clear that up.
Hkslan(1): :rofl: Glad you liked it.
trekaddict(2): Impressive. I hope that things will go as well for me. Not that I have any plans to attack my eastern neighbor with whom I have a non-aggression pact, you understand. I'm just saying, you know, hypothetically.
HKslan(2): If you can kick them while they're down, I say go for it.
SgtPepper20: It does sometimes seem that Helmut should takea few pages from his brother's book, doesn't it?
Hkslan(1): :rofl: Glad you liked it.
trekaddict(2): Impressive. I hope that things will go as well for me. Not that I have any plans to attack my eastern neighbor with whom I have a non-aggression pact, you understand. I'm just saying, you know, hypothetically.
HKslan(2): If you can kick them while they're down, I say go for it.
SgtPepper20: It does sometimes seem that Helmut should takea few pages from his brother's book, doesn't it?
Our good Otto and his boys will love their new toys methinks. In RL the Tiger was well-loved despite its mechanical faults which will be ironed out by what the gang will be doing in the next few weeks.
As for knocking them out: I am amazed I made it that fast myself, because the SU heavily outnumbered me and I was playing on normal/agressive with DAIM installed, and the front was much more narrow than in RL. ( Romania was denied entry into the Axis powers until much later when I needed their Divisions as garrisons. ) I think it might have been the combination of superiour doctrine ( when the SU dowed me in feburary 1942 I had just finished researching the Kampfgruppe doctrine ), superiour tech ( 1941 inf and Pz IV with Tiger attachements to many of my panzer Divisions, with the Panzer V Panther already beein researched ) and simply the fact that the Soviets weren't controlled by a human.
Also my personal opinion on Helmuts "youth" is that it is a combination of him beeing younger both in age and in experience, because as much combat as Helmuth has seen it sort of pales compared to the sustained combat Otto and the gang have had on the Balkans and elsewhere. Helmuth also approaches things in a different way due to his different military background.
As for knocking them out: I am amazed I made it that fast myself, because the SU heavily outnumbered me and I was playing on normal/agressive with DAIM installed, and the front was much more narrow than in RL. ( Romania was denied entry into the Axis powers until much later when I needed their Divisions as garrisons. ) I think it might have been the combination of superiour doctrine ( when the SU dowed me in feburary 1942 I had just finished researching the Kampfgruppe doctrine ), superiour tech ( 1941 inf and Pz IV with Tiger attachements to many of my panzer Divisions, with the Panzer V Panther already beein researched ) and simply the fact that the Soviets weren't controlled by a human.
Also my personal opinion on Helmuts "youth" is that it is a combination of him beeing younger both in age and in experience, because as much combat as Helmuth has seen it sort of pales compared to the sustained combat Otto and the gang have had on the Balkans and elsewhere. Helmuth also approaches things in a different way due to his different military background.
I hope they give her a wash first. Or a paintjob?
I really like the parallel those two have though, it seems to me like it transcends their age or experience and is just who they are. It's the perfect parallel for two brothers in Nazi Germany fighting in the war--it reflects on how in it's military apparatus there were the old Prussian conservatives (Otto) and the young idealistic Nazi revolutionaries (Helmut), and how Weimar and later the war bound them a lot like a family might. If that's what you were going for it's very clever and if it's not then it's just neat that it happened that way.
For those reasons I don't want to see a 'reformed' Helmut, who realizes what Otto considers the errors of his ways when he sees a SS man take a lollipop from a toddler or something. I wouldn't think him a follower, he's got his faults but he's never come across as unintelligent.
I really like the parallel those two have though, it seems to me like it transcends their age or experience and is just who they are. It's the perfect parallel for two brothers in Nazi Germany fighting in the war--it reflects on how in it's military apparatus there were the old Prussian conservatives (Otto) and the young idealistic Nazi revolutionaries (Helmut), and how Weimar and later the war bound them a lot like a family might. If that's what you were going for it's very clever and if it's not then it's just neat that it happened that way.
For those reasons I don't want to see a 'reformed' Helmut, who realizes what Otto considers the errors of his ways when he sees a SS man take a lollipop from a toddler or something. I wouldn't think him a follower, he's got his faults but he's never come across as unintelligent.
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HKslan said:
not to mentoin that it would be a bit cheap anyways.
But having him die as a convinced Nazi isn't my cup of tea either.....
But whatever you write my dear Sir, I shall follow with great interest.
Hardraade said:trekaddict(1): Perhaps this will clear that up.
Hkslan(1): :rofl: Glad you liked it.
trekaddict(2): Impressive. I hope that things will go as well for me. Not that I have any plans to attack my eastern neighbor with whom I have a non-aggression pact, you understand. I'm just saying, you know, hypothetically.
HKslan(2): If you can kick them while they're down, I say go for it.
SgtPepper20: It does sometimes seem that Helmut should takea few pages from his brother's book, doesn't it?
Gotta love the look of the Tiger Tank.....awesome!!
KLorberau
Regarding Skorzeny,
Me thinks that he might be starting up a special Fallschirmajer type unit to infiltrate England.....aka "The Eagle has Landed" movie with Michael Caine as the leader of a group of paratroopers who try to take out Churchill...
Now that would be a setting for some "action" like Max was talking about....
And nice to see our boy back in Germany taking care of his Fraulein and little Panzer Child...hahahha
KLorberau
Me thinks that he might be starting up a special Fallschirmajer type unit to infiltrate England.....aka "The Eagle has Landed" movie with Michael Caine as the leader of a group of paratroopers who try to take out Churchill...
Now that would be a setting for some "action" like Max was talking about....
And nice to see our boy back in Germany taking care of his Fraulein and little Panzer Child...hahahha
KLorberau
trekaddict(1): How could they not love it? Your opinion on Helmut is a valid one. Despite the fact that he and Otto had the same upbringing, their varied experiences have turned them into two very different people.
HKslan(1): Come on man, she's a field test model. Getting dirty is part of the job.
I had always wanted Otto and Helmut to be opposites and to provide a look at the different types of men that served Germany during the war. Otto is, as you said, a career officer of the old school. He is devoted to Volk and Fatherland and is apolitical as was proper for a member of the German Army at that time. By contrast, Helmut is a Nazi. I have tried to reinforce this through various actions and comments on Helmut's part without beating anyone over the head with it. At this point in time, Helmut's commitment is total and any kind of reformation should be considered highly unlikely.
trekaddict(2) & HKslan(2): Thanks, I'll try to make it entertaining however it turns out.
KLorberau(1): Awesome indeed!
KLorberau(2): Oh man, another movie I haven't seen. I'm starting to think that I am not as well versed in WW2 movies as I thought I was.o
Anyway, I'll be keeping the Skorzeny situation under wraps for now. Hope you don't mind. As to Otto, I figured it was time to let him get some peace and quiet on the home front. Though, of course, he's not exactly on vacation.
Kurt Steiner: Hmmm... I take it that you've seen the movie? Any good?
HKslan(1): Come on man, she's a field test model. Getting dirty is part of the job.
I had always wanted Otto and Helmut to be opposites and to provide a look at the different types of men that served Germany during the war. Otto is, as you said, a career officer of the old school. He is devoted to Volk and Fatherland and is apolitical as was proper for a member of the German Army at that time. By contrast, Helmut is a Nazi. I have tried to reinforce this through various actions and comments on Helmut's part without beating anyone over the head with it. At this point in time, Helmut's commitment is total and any kind of reformation should be considered highly unlikely.
trekaddict(2) & HKslan(2): Thanks, I'll try to make it entertaining however it turns out.
KLorberau(1): Awesome indeed!
KLorberau(2): Oh man, another movie I haven't seen. I'm starting to think that I am not as well versed in WW2 movies as I thought I was.
o Anyway, I'll be keeping the Skorzeny situation under wraps for now. Hope you don't mind. As to Otto, I figured it was time to let him get some peace and quiet on the home front. Though, of course, he's not exactly on vacation.
Kurt Steiner: Hmmm... I take it that you've seen the movie? Any good?
I love that photo.....great movie too!!! Donald Pleasence does the best acting of Himmler I have ever seen.....lots of good action by Michael Caine as well....Recommended for all to see.
KLorberau
KLorberau
Kurt_Steiner said:Somebody called me
trekaddict said:
Hardraade said:
Bearing in mind that Cain portraits the character whose name I use as nick, this should suffice
Now seriously speaking, it's worth seeing it, trust me. It may be old -well, Gone with the Wind is older, and no one complains! -, but it's really good. Some reasons following KLorberau said:
You're forgetting Donald Sutherland too -no one is thrown out of a window the way Donald is
-, or Robert Duvall, for instance. But indeed, Pleasance looks scaringly 'Himmlerian' in the film, really. Anthony Quayle doesn't resemble very much to admiral Canaris, but he's superb, too. Even Larry Hagman manages to be fine -specially in his last shot (pun intended ) with Jean Marsh (another breathtaking perfomance). And the film looks enough realistic for me, bearing in mind the whole idea behind it.Ok, ok, I love the film and it's a wonderful one. Go and see it!
KLorberau & Kurt Steiner: OK, I'll add that one to the list of recommended films then. Lets see what we have so far:
1. The English Patient
2. Battle of Britain
3. Cross of Iron
4. The Eagle Has Landed
Missing any?
1. The English Patient
2. Battle of Britain
3. Cross of Iron
4. The Eagle Has Landed
Missing any?
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Kurt Steiner & trekaddict: Seen and greatly enjoyed all of those except The Desert Rats.
*********************************************************
March 1, 1940
Deuil, France
Helmut Wolf brought a steaming cup of coffee to his lips and cautiously sipped at the contents, his eyes never leaving his companion across the small table. Wincing at the taste, he set the cup down and pushed it away from him. Waving a hand to call the waiter over, he pointed to the cup and said, "Please take this away and bring a new one. Black this time."
As the waiter took the offending cup away, his companion laughed and asked, "I take it that you didn't like it?"
Helmut, still looking pained, shook his head and responded, "No, I didn't. Frankly, I don't even know how you can stand to drink it like that.
Corinne shrugged, "That's how I like my coffee and I thought that you'd like to try it that way."
"That's not coffee. Coffee is black, with no additives. What you drink is a coffee-based abomination."
Corinne rolled her eyes and replied, "Fine, I'm sorry I suggested it. Look, here's your cup of nasty black coffee. Enjoy."
"I will, thank you very much."
Corinne almost sullenly went back to her beverage, as Helmut eyed her with amusement. They had made meeting at this cafe a sort of weekly ritual and Helmut was finding her company to be most enjoyable. In fact, he often times thought of his weekly meetings with her to be the one bright spot in this otherwise dull posting and looked forward to them greatly. Once they had finished, Helmut dropped some money on the table and walked to her side. After helping her pull her chair out, he offered her his arm and escorted her out of the cafe. They walked together mostly in silence, enjoying the bright spring day. Coming to her home, Helmut disengaged his arm and offered her a slight bow, which she laughed at as she always did. Straightening up, he smiled at her and said, "I've enjoyed our meeting as always, but I've got to be getting back."
"Of course. I'll see you again next week?"
Helmut shifted uncomfortably and responded, "Most likely. I may, however, have... ah... other business."
Corinne pouted up at him and asked, "Other business? What sort of other business would be more important than me, Helmut?"
Taken aback by the question, Helmut was unable to come up with an immediate response. Seeing that she had made him nervous, Corinne laughed and said, "Never mind, I was only teasing you." Let off the hook, Helmut smiled weakly and nodded. As he did, she stepped forward and took one of his hands in hers. Smiling at him, she let her other hand gently brush his cheek as she said, "I'll look forward to hearing from you next week, Helmut."
With that, she released his hand and opened her door. Pausing in the doorway, she waved goodbye to him before shutting it and leaving him alone outside. Turning from the door, Helmut slowly walked back toward his office, his mind a jumble of warring thoughts and emotions. Stepping into the building that housed his office, he found Nagel at his customary station outside of his office door. Motioning for Nagel to remain seated, Helmut approached him and asked, "How are you today?"
"You know how it is, sir. I can't complain because no one would listen if I did.", replied Nagel.
Helmut frowned, "Why do you sat that? Of course I would...Oh, you're joking right?"
Nagel nodded, "Yes, sir. Scharfuhrer Baer says that I need to loosen up a bit."
Sighing, Helmut leaned over Nagel's desk and said, "I'm going to give you some advice. You will go far in life if the last thing you do is listen to Max."
"Oh, alright sir. Sorry."
"Don't be sorry Nagel, you do need to loosen up a bit. I'm just saying that you shouldn't listen to everything he tells you."
"I'll keep that in mind, sir."
Helmut turned to enter his office, but pulled himself up short and walked back over to Nagel's desk. He leaned on it once again and said, "Listen Nagel, I called a friend of mine in Berlin and he says he should be able to help with your little problem."
Nagel's face brightened and he jumped out of his chair as he said, "Oh, thank you sir! I hope that it wasn't a lot of trouble."
Helmut shrugged, "No, not unless you consider owing him my first born a lot of trouble."
Nagel looked shocked and responded, "Sir, I'm sorry. I-"
"Nagel, that was a joke."
"Oh, right. I mean, I knew that sir."
Helmut shook his head and decided to move on with the conversation. Looking Nagle in the eye he said, "Anyway, let me ask you something. Are you sure that you want to go through with this?"
"I don't know what you mean, sir."
Helmut sighed, "It's just that you haven't known her for that long. How can you be so sure about this?"
Nagel frowned, "We just are, sir. Sure it hasn't been that long, but we know what we feel. We know that we want to be together."
"And you've both thought of the effect this will have on her?"
"Sir?"
"Come on Nagel, don't be naive. We are occupiers here. Sure the people smile and act polite, but that all comes at gunpoint. If that woman marries you, she'll be considered a traitor. You'll have to take her to Germany and she'll be cut off from her family and friends. Do you understand that? Is that what she wants?"
Nagel opened his mouth to respond, but closed it without reply and seemed to slump down into his seat. Seeing that he had greatly upset the young man, Helmut instantly felt guilty. Coming around the desk, he put a hand on Nagel's shoulder and said, "Listen kid, don't pay any attention to me. I'm sure that you two will be very happy together. Tell you what, why not take the rest of the day off? Go see that nice girl of yours, and give her the good news."
Nagel nodded a little woodenly and replied, "Thank you sir, I will."
As Nagel began to collect his things, Helmut quickly walked away and entered his office. Sitting down behind his desk he leaned back in the chair and said to the empty room, "Well, that was a nice job of ruining Nagel's day. Where the hell did that all come from?"
He couldn't think of an answer.
*********************************************************
March 1, 1940
Deuil, France
Helmut Wolf brought a steaming cup of coffee to his lips and cautiously sipped at the contents, his eyes never leaving his companion across the small table. Wincing at the taste, he set the cup down and pushed it away from him. Waving a hand to call the waiter over, he pointed to the cup and said, "Please take this away and bring a new one. Black this time."
As the waiter took the offending cup away, his companion laughed and asked, "I take it that you didn't like it?"
Helmut, still looking pained, shook his head and responded, "No, I didn't. Frankly, I don't even know how you can stand to drink it like that.
Corinne shrugged, "That's how I like my coffee and I thought that you'd like to try it that way."
"That's not coffee. Coffee is black, with no additives. What you drink is a coffee-based abomination."
Corinne rolled her eyes and replied, "Fine, I'm sorry I suggested it. Look, here's your cup of nasty black coffee. Enjoy."
"I will, thank you very much."
Corinne almost sullenly went back to her beverage, as Helmut eyed her with amusement. They had made meeting at this cafe a sort of weekly ritual and Helmut was finding her company to be most enjoyable. In fact, he often times thought of his weekly meetings with her to be the one bright spot in this otherwise dull posting and looked forward to them greatly. Once they had finished, Helmut dropped some money on the table and walked to her side. After helping her pull her chair out, he offered her his arm and escorted her out of the cafe. They walked together mostly in silence, enjoying the bright spring day. Coming to her home, Helmut disengaged his arm and offered her a slight bow, which she laughed at as she always did. Straightening up, he smiled at her and said, "I've enjoyed our meeting as always, but I've got to be getting back."
"Of course. I'll see you again next week?"
Helmut shifted uncomfortably and responded, "Most likely. I may, however, have... ah... other business."
Corinne pouted up at him and asked, "Other business? What sort of other business would be more important than me, Helmut?"
Taken aback by the question, Helmut was unable to come up with an immediate response. Seeing that she had made him nervous, Corinne laughed and said, "Never mind, I was only teasing you." Let off the hook, Helmut smiled weakly and nodded. As he did, she stepped forward and took one of his hands in hers. Smiling at him, she let her other hand gently brush his cheek as she said, "I'll look forward to hearing from you next week, Helmut."
With that, she released his hand and opened her door. Pausing in the doorway, she waved goodbye to him before shutting it and leaving him alone outside. Turning from the door, Helmut slowly walked back toward his office, his mind a jumble of warring thoughts and emotions. Stepping into the building that housed his office, he found Nagel at his customary station outside of his office door. Motioning for Nagel to remain seated, Helmut approached him and asked, "How are you today?"
"You know how it is, sir. I can't complain because no one would listen if I did.", replied Nagel.
Helmut frowned, "Why do you sat that? Of course I would...Oh, you're joking right?"
Nagel nodded, "Yes, sir. Scharfuhrer Baer says that I need to loosen up a bit."
Sighing, Helmut leaned over Nagel's desk and said, "I'm going to give you some advice. You will go far in life if the last thing you do is listen to Max."
"Oh, alright sir. Sorry."
"Don't be sorry Nagel, you do need to loosen up a bit. I'm just saying that you shouldn't listen to everything he tells you."
"I'll keep that in mind, sir."
Helmut turned to enter his office, but pulled himself up short and walked back over to Nagel's desk. He leaned on it once again and said, "Listen Nagel, I called a friend of mine in Berlin and he says he should be able to help with your little problem."
Nagel's face brightened and he jumped out of his chair as he said, "Oh, thank you sir! I hope that it wasn't a lot of trouble."
Helmut shrugged, "No, not unless you consider owing him my first born a lot of trouble."
Nagel looked shocked and responded, "Sir, I'm sorry. I-"
"Nagel, that was a joke."
"Oh, right. I mean, I knew that sir."
Helmut shook his head and decided to move on with the conversation. Looking Nagle in the eye he said, "Anyway, let me ask you something. Are you sure that you want to go through with this?"
"I don't know what you mean, sir."
Helmut sighed, "It's just that you haven't known her for that long. How can you be so sure about this?"
Nagel frowned, "We just are, sir. Sure it hasn't been that long, but we know what we feel. We know that we want to be together."
"And you've both thought of the effect this will have on her?"
"Sir?"
"Come on Nagel, don't be naive. We are occupiers here. Sure the people smile and act polite, but that all comes at gunpoint. If that woman marries you, she'll be considered a traitor. You'll have to take her to Germany and she'll be cut off from her family and friends. Do you understand that? Is that what she wants?"
Nagel opened his mouth to respond, but closed it without reply and seemed to slump down into his seat. Seeing that he had greatly upset the young man, Helmut instantly felt guilty. Coming around the desk, he put a hand on Nagel's shoulder and said, "Listen kid, don't pay any attention to me. I'm sure that you two will be very happy together. Tell you what, why not take the rest of the day off? Go see that nice girl of yours, and give her the good news."
Nagel nodded a little woodenly and replied, "Thank you sir, I will."
As Nagel began to collect his things, Helmut quickly walked away and entered his office. Sitting down behind his desk he leaned back in the chair and said to the empty room, "Well, that was a nice job of ruining Nagel's day. Where the hell did that all come from?"
He couldn't think of an answer.
Poor Nagel. I'm sure they've both thought of all that themselves, but he can't give any better answer than the same one he'd already given. I hope Helmut reflecting on him and Corinne aloud doesn't keep Nagel from his Frenchwoman.
I hope Helmut reflecting on him and Corinne aloud doesn't keep Nagel from his Frenchwoman.