I still really didn't get in why I should have my own retinues. They suck my money just like mercenaries do and are useless in a peace time.
Retinues vs Mercenaries
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Only when reinforcing, when they are at full strength you stop paying for them.
mm, thank you. I didn't know that, so if it's true I ll build them right now!
That is the whole point - you build them up in peace times, reinforcement costs stop once they reach full manpower, and then they work like mercs.
I hate the retinue system. It's the one feature I wish they'd never added, and amusingly I can distinctly remember at least one developer stating why personal standing armies were both ahistorical for this period and a bad idea from a game balance point of view.
It's utterly ahistorical for non-orthodox countries. The retinue of the Kaiser (HRE) in 12something was about 900 people and most were probably logistics and not fighting forces.
At least i haven't found one source on something like retinues in-game for western countries and there was none given.
Though i'm glad its a DLC and selectable.
I use LoR only for orthodox countries.
Oh wait, the OP hasn't posted a rant on retinues. Sorry, but i felt the need to say this. :blush:
At least i haven't found one source on something like retinues in-game for western countries and there was none given.
Though i'm glad its a DLC and selectable.
I use LoR only for orthodox countries.
Oh wait, the OP hasn't posted a rant on retinues. Sorry, but i felt the need to say this. :blush:
It seems to disable it as well for the AI though in my last game i incidently had LoR activated after a reload and saved.
When i loaded it again and played on after having LoR activated for a while before the save, it looked as if the retinues formed by the AI still existed, but didnt reform and no new ones were formed.
At least thats how i explain the troops that didnt display their numbers, despite regular levy armies still showing their numbers.
While they may not be the most historically accurate, my 10k cataphract retinue was key in defending my lands against the Mongols in my current Alania game
.I can so forsee the slaughter of my troops even with local numerical superiority if all that retinue wasnt around.
Having one strong contingent of retinue, about 20,000 men, is very useful since it's fairly sufficient to take over OPMs and other small realms, which is especially tedious when you're reuniting the Roman Empire. With retinues you can take over all kinds of places over the years without having to pay 1,000 gold to get the same amount of mercs every time.
it also allows you a convenient way to fight small wars (eg OPMS or mop up after an enemy's real army is dead) without angering your vassals/while their levies refill
Retinues:
Pros:
Control over composition
Split in small units
Neat bonuses for cultural retinues
No permanent upkeep
Cons:
Payment per soldier reinforced
Tough starting price
Take long time to fully reinforce
Uses:
Crush minor armies (low casualties, don't have to raise again)
Maintaining lengthy sieges (low casualties, time doesn't matter)
Empowering breakthrough wing (may have lots of HC or cultural retinues with combat bonuses)
Mercenaries:
Pros:
Payment per month per soldier alive
Appear instantly, just take some time to get morale.
Low initial cost.
Cons:
One unit of fixed composition
Costly in long wars
May rebel if out of funds
Uses:
Bloody battles (if noone is left you don't have to pay more)
Rapid assaults (mercs are expendable,you have to use them fast)
Empowering guard flank (that is, the one that would be crushed while breakthrough flank decimates opponent)
Pros:
Control over composition
Split in small units
Neat bonuses for cultural retinues
No permanent upkeep
Cons:
Payment per soldier reinforced
Tough starting price
Take long time to fully reinforce
Uses:
Crush minor armies (low casualties, don't have to raise again)
Maintaining lengthy sieges (low casualties, time doesn't matter)
Empowering breakthrough wing (may have lots of HC or cultural retinues with combat bonuses)
Mercenaries:
Pros:
Payment per month per soldier alive
Appear instantly, just take some time to get morale.
Low initial cost.
Cons:
One unit of fixed composition
Costly in long wars
May rebel if out of funds
Uses:
Bloody battles (if noone is left you don't have to pay more)
Rapid assaults (mercs are expendable,you have to use them fast)
Empowering guard flank (that is, the one that would be crushed while breakthrough flank decimates opponent)
I quite like the retinues from a game play perspective as the give the ruler a little more punch in dealing with his vassals and it adds a personal element to the battles when your elite retinue is there.
I do think they do get out of hand when you personal retinue of 15K+ troops are conquering kingdoms all by themselves and you actually encourage the independence faction just so you get the opportunity to beat down you vassals once in a while for the big "crushed major revolt" opinion bonus. But that is a matter of balancing rather than removing (possibly adding a small proportional running cost for the force in addition to the replacements cost).
CK2 is only historical at the start points, creating the Kingdom of Britain in the 12th century incorporating France and Spain is ahistorical, and as such it should not be a stretch for this ahistorical ruler to emulate the Byz with a large standing army...
I do think they do get out of hand when you personal retinue of 15K+ troops are conquering kingdoms all by themselves and you actually encourage the independence faction just so you get the opportunity to beat down you vassals once in a while for the big "crushed major revolt" opinion bonus. But that is a matter of balancing rather than removing (possibly adding a small proportional running cost for the force in addition to the replacements cost).
CK2 is only historical at the start points, creating the Kingdom of Britain in the 12th century incorporating France and Spain is ahistorical, and as such it should not be a stretch for this ahistorical ruler to emulate the Byz with a large standing army...