Retinues: Quqlity VS Quantity

[Sn3ipen]

I know they nerfed the heavy cavalry in the latest patch but I don't know how much.

So whats best? A small army, based on 3 units where each is 100 heavy cavalry and 400 light cavalry or a twice as large, based mostly on Heavy infantry and archers?

 

[Comm Cody]

As England, I spammed the archer retinue over and over again until I got 6,000 archers.

went to war against France, raised levies, and the archer core MAULED the french. I'm talking about 300 causalities per day on each flank in skirmish alone. Follow that up with heavy infantry and the French were done. However it depends on how you aim to fight and who you are fighting against.

 

[unmerged(26764)]

First, your cultural retinue is always the best. It gets a huge inbuilt bonus as if it came out of your highest level cultural building. So you should probably build around that. That's why those longbows are so good. French heavy cav, on the other hand, is brutal -- much more so than English.

Beyond that, I would build whatever your cultural retinue lacks. If I'm playing a heavy infantry / pike culture, I build some cav to mop up in pursue because infantry is terrible at that. If I have heavy cav, I just build that -- it takes up too much of your cap to really afford otherwise -- but then try to group it with levies to take damage in skirmish -- because heavy cav gets mauled in skirmish if unaccompanied. I've never played England since retinues, but I would probably group them with infantry so they don't get the charge undefended flank ending skirmish and killing them.

 

[Mercury Knuckle]

As England, I spammed the archer retinue over and over again until I got 6,000 archers.

went to war against France, raised levies, and the archer core MAULED the french. I'm talking about 300 causalities per day on each flank in skirmish alone. Follow that up with heavy infantry and the French were done. However it depends on how you aim to fight and who you are fighting against.

If it worked in Agencourt, then I don't see why it won't work in this game.

Yes, go for quantity over quality... Always.

 

[unmerged(26764)]

Yes, go for quantity over quality... Always.

Disagree.

Go with your cultural retinue. The tooltip doesn't say this, but it's inherently far better than a normal unit. If you're using generic levies, you're missing out on the power of your retinue.

Once you do that, however, there's room for specialized units. Some people build big groups of cheap retinues to storm castles. Decent plan. Another idea is big groups of cheap retinues to up your troop count and stop independence faction wars. Also a plan. But for real battles, go cultural with the appropriate kicker.

 

[Octavio]

Disagree.

Go with your cultural retinue. The tooltip doesn't say this, but it's inherently far better than a normal unit. If you're using generic levies, you're missing out on the power of your retinue.

Once you do that, however, there's room for specialized units. Some people build big groups of cheap retinues to storm castles. Decent plan. Another idea is big groups of cheap retinues to up your troop count and stop independence faction wars. Also a plan. But for real battles, go cultural with the appropriate kicker.

+1, unless your cultural type is light cavalry

 

[Pinstar]

Mopping the floor with the mongols using the Heavy Cav/Horse Archer core from Byz. I buy nothing but and it is awesome. I can take whole wars without even raising personal or vassal levies. They can siege down garrisons surprisingly large, and their lower numbers make them less prone to attrition.

 

[Sn3ipen]

Thanks for the quick replies. Right now I am playing in Sweden with a heavy infantry culture building. I guess I really need those horses but I only get like 100 heavy infantry and 400 light infantry for each retinue unit.

 

[unmerged(494787)]

Heavy Infantry are perfectly capable of standing alone in a battle, and they're not too expensive to boot. It's just that their pursuit values suck so throwing one cav retinue per oh, four heavy infantry retinues helps avoid having to chase an army around forever. Alternatively, you can just use a HI stack to break them then a levy/merc army to chase them down and finish them off.

 

[unmerged(26764)]

Thanks for the quick replies. Right now I am playing in Sweden with a heavy infantry culture building. I guess I really need those horses but I only get like 100 heavy infantry and 400 light infantry for each retinue unit.

The heavy infantry cultural units are actually my favorite. It's a great balance between power and number. I've never used the norse bezerkers in particular, but on paper they look great.

I would buy 3/4 cultural infantry and 1/4 cav with that set up. They will use sheildwall in skirmish and take little damage, rock in melee, and then the horses will chase down any runners. I have used a similar set up with Russian heavy infantry and Italian pikes, and both were very effective (the Russians better than the pikes).

 

[Alerias]

Cataphracts. Fourty thousand Cataphracts. Half Knights, Half Horse-Archers.

Nobody said you have to choose between quality and quantity. You can also play Rome.

 

[tormos]

I'd like to take a moment to appreciate that Abyssinia, the most screwed over of all kingdoms, has LIGHT FOOT as their cultural retinue. "oh, look, those peasants held up against our horse archers for 2 days this time! must be something in the water."

 

[arothuris]

How about light cav retinue like the turks have? its like half horse archers & half light cav. Is it effective just by itself, or would it better to mix with some other type? I was thinking of building a total light horse retinue but i'm not sure

 

[Alerias]

Light cavalry is... I'm not sure words can do it justice.

Just say no.

 

[grumphie]

it greatly depends on the situation. i.e. the byzantine cultural retinue just plainly kicks ass. add 6 groups of those to a normal army and youll destroy the opposition. pikemen are also a great help in i.e. italy where about everyone youll be facing will have mounted troops. ont he other hand, spamming numbers is great to make a replendishing siege stack or overwhelm you enenmy with your retinue at stages int eh game whee quality isnt something youre able to get yet(i.e. a retineu cap of 2k).

 

[arothuris]

Light cavalry is... I'm not sure words can do it justice.

Just say no.

Sorry but I dun quite get what u mean. Do u mean the turkish cultural light horse/horse archer retinue falls into the no good category?

 

[Talq]

If it worked in Agencourt, then I don't see why it won't work in this game.

Yes, go for quantity over quality... Always.

At > 60% archers on that flank, the enemy will probably use 'charge on undefended flank' and put you in melee in a couple of days. So its considerably more situational (skirmish retinues have considerably less killing power as well, so the chances of you being put in melee having not done enough damage is also somewhat higher). Just something to keep in mind of.

Outside of that, I'll join the chorus, build around your cultural retinue (especially heavy cav, heavy inf, horse archer and archer retinues). Unless its light cavalry - they just aren't that good in battle.

 

[grumphie]

why do people keep repeating that light cav is that terrible? sure, theyre less than optimal in skirmish and melee but in the pursuit phase they kick ass. especially when combined with a lot of horse archers.

 

[arothuris]

The turkish cultural retinue is actually called the horse archer retinue, with 260 horse archers and 240 light cavalry per unit. Is it really bad to build a pure horse archer retinue coz I saw the mongals basically have lots of them in some screenshots

 

[grumphie]

if its a pure HA-light cav army, its a fairl storng army. just dont mix it with general levies.