Retinue question

[Bertouch]

Getting back into the game with DLCs when you only played vanilla is a little difficult at times. Take retinues. I'd completely forgotten about them until it was 1107 in my current game, of roughly 50 years on. Went to check out retinues, and found I couldn't start one.

Here's what I discovered:

Current Retinue Cap Usage: 0
Retinue Cap: 539
Realm Manpower: 10667
Tech level: 0.51
Retinue Percentage from Tech: 5.057%

0/539

Granted, I need to raise Military Organization. But I'd been given to understand I could at least raise a tiny retinue right from the start. What am I missing here, please?

 

[justin6477]

You can't raise a retinue yet.

Lowest cost is 600 I think, and each retinue is 500 men. Where are you playing, Russia? Because your tech is crap.

 

[DanubianCossak]

Judging from your avatar, id say youre probably playing within my favorite CK2 area, that is Russia. But in any case, the smallest retenue that im aware of, is Longbowmen, and those can be hired only by welsh/English, it costs 500 cap. The next smallest one, is that generic one (available to everyone) that consists of 400 archers and 100 heavy infantry, it costs 600 cap. So, basically, unless youre Welsh, you cant hire anything really. Raise your military org tech and build up your military buildings, as they increase the cap (they influence the math that military org affects).

As for what retenues you should build, there are several theories. Personally i believe that in CK2 vanilla the differences between unit types (specially when it comes to morale and defense) are too low, so i usually go for quantity over quality, meaning cheapest retenue as many times as possible. Once you get a retenue stack of some 10.000 assaulting sieges becomes much easier, and so does your survival against scheming vassals.

 

[Talq]

Your understanding is incorrect. You do need sufficient retinue cap to raise a retinue (otherwise every one province count could raise a retinue and that would be bad).

The lowest retinue cap you need (usually) to make a retinue is 600 for the skirmish retinue (retinue cap use is counted as archers,lightinfantry 1: heavy inf, pikes, light cav, horse archers 2, heavy cav 4.)

 

[Bertouch]

Playing Sweden. They are mighty in lutefisk, but weak in retinues. Maybe I should just mod it in the files, much as I dislike doing that. Could take 200 years to reach the point of growing a small group of archers.

So my problem is just the tech level, and raising that will raise the retinue cap, reaching 600, the break point? Because I've been focusing on tactics, but even so, I don't think it's budged much. That's with a military adviser stationed in my capitol province.

 

[justin6477]

Playing Sweden. They are mighty in lutefisk, but weak in retinues.

So my problem is just the tech level, and raising that will raise the retinue cap, reaching 600, the break point? Because I've been focusing on tactics, but even so, I don't think it's budged much. That's with a military adviser stationed in my capitol province.

Well, I'd say it's manpower as much as its tech level. You'll need to expand your holdings and build new ones. More cities will also raise tech, which in turn allows for better buildings and bigger levies/retinues.

A good idea would be to try and pry Scania off of Denmark and move your capital there. For this period in history, it's better than anything that's currently part of Sweden.

 

[Bertouch]

Well, I'd say it's manpower as much as its tech level. You'll need to expand your holdings and build new ones. More cities will also raise tech, which in turn allows for better buildings and bigger levies/retinues.

A good idea would be to try and pry Scania off of Denmark and move your capital there. For this period in history, it's better than anything that's currently part of Sweden.

I've got 6 provinces under direct control by my monarch, one of them very good, and two with a castle, city, and church each. I just realized that my capitol is probably no longer the best place to research, since taking the title to Uppland from a traitor. Denmark certainly has some attractive stuff, and if William the Conqueror hadn't grabbed Bruges on the way back from the Crusades, I'd plans for it, after making someone with a weak claim to it into a bishop. Bah.

 

[DanubianCossak]

If you are small build militia line buildings in every castle holding that you got. It gives the most manpower for first and second buildings (like 200ish?). Apart from that, there is almost nothing you can do, either improve what you have, or grow. Your retenue cap grows not only from your own holdings, but from those of your vassals. So, for example, if you unite Rus kingdom, even if you only own 4-5 provinces yourself, your retenue cap will go to like 1000-1200. Once you get mil. org tech to lvl 2, and once your vassals start building stuff, that cap will go to over 10.000 is no time.

I would strongly advise you not to mod this. If you change it so that you can build stuff, you will actually just screw yourself up in the long run, cause you will exponentially increase the power of already well established areas (HRE / BYZ). By the time you hit their starting tech, theyll be running around with 50.000 retenue doom stacks.

 

[Bertouch]

If you are small build militia line buildings in every castle holding that you got. It gives the most manpower for first and second buildings (like 200ish?). Apart from that, there is almost nothing you can do, either improve what you have, or grow. Your retenue cap grows not only from your own holdings, but from those of your vassals. So, for example, if you unite Rus kingdom, even if you only own 4-5 provinces yourself, your retenue cap will go to like 1000-1200. Once you get mil. org tech to lvl 2, and once your vassals start building stuff, that cap will go to over 10.000 is no time.

I would strongly advise you not to mod this. If you change it so that you can build stuff, you will actually just screw yourself up in the long run, cause you will exponentially increase the power of already well established areas (HRE / BYZ). By the time you hit their starting tech, theyll be running around with 50.000 retenue doom stacks.

I was just expressing my frustration--I wouldn't mod something that was the result of a choice I made. A perceived problem in the game is something else.

I'm running Sweden, though, not Rus. Just for clarification's sake. Still pretty backward. Finally got to make a skirmish unit, but in over 70 years, military organization hasn't advanced at all. Makes you wonder what those Swedes are doing.

 

[Bertouch]

As long as we're on the subject: I thought retinues had a one time cost. I'm seeing a statement of monthly cost.

 

[wdremington]

As long as we're on the subject: I thought retinues had a one time cost. I'm seeing a statement of monthly cost.

The monthly cost is because the Retinue is reinforcing to full strength (at a rate of ~25 per month, per retinue unit).

Once it is at full strength it will be free until you take casualties.

Note that during wartime this gives you great flexibility: you can either set the cost to off, half or full.

When off, they don't cost you anything but they also don't reinforce but leaves your income free to pay for your levy upkeep or mercs.
When on (at half or full) you have armies that reinforce while in the field.

 

[noobermenschen]

You pay to establish the retinue, which starts at the strength of one man. The retinue reinforces monthly and costs you money while doing so until it is at full strength. If you lose any troops from your retinue from battles or attrition it costs money to rebuild to full strength, so think through how you are going to use it. Cost me a buttload of gold one time when a measles epidemic lowered the supply limit of the province in which 12000 of my longbow retinue were hanging around doing nothing.

One other thing I'm not 100% sure about, but my finances went in the red one time when I paid for a fabricated claim. Nah prob, about four months' income and all would be good - except ALL my retinues started suffering attrition and it was costing a very large portion of my income to rebuild their strength, which continued to hemorrhage the whole time I was trying to climb out of this monetary hole I had dug. Very unamusing.

EDIT: remington I didn't know about shutting off reinforcements, would have come in handy during the above scenario - where's the control for that?

 

[Casiru]

There is a huge manpower difference between a fully upgraded castle and an unupgraded castle. As the game progresses most of your counts with vassals will have finished upgrading their holdings allowing for some huge retinues late game. Tech and economic prosperity are the keys to retinue power (Which can mean not raising vassal levies and ships for the entire game, since they often cant afford them.).

 

[Bertouch]

EDIT: remington I didn't know about shutting off reinforcements, would have come in handy during the above scenario - where's the control for that?

That one I can help you with: it's a series of three vertical buttons controlling how quickly retinues reinforce: quickly, at half speed, or not at all. You can find under the retinue tab, in the panel.

 

[noobermenschen]

That one I can help you with: it's a series of three vertical buttons controlling how quickly retinues reinforce: quickly, at half speed, or not at all. You can find under the retinue tab, in the panel.

I will look for it next time i blow my money like a drunken sailor - Thank you!

 

[unmerged(106498)]

In current game, I'm Emp of Hispania. Year is 1184. Levies are 13K from dimense, 65K from vassals, Military Organization in my capital (Cordoba) is 2. Even so the retinue tab is greyed over and not even selectable. So my question is... how exactly do I make a retinue?

 

[Torngasuk]

Do you have Legacy of Rome?

 

[unmerged(106498)]

Yes. The only big addon I don't have is the Aztec one.

 

[DanubianCossak]

Yes. The only big addon I don't have is the Aztec one.

Are you sure that LoR is activated?

IIRC retenue tab being grayed out and unclickable means that the DLC is not activated.

 

[unmerged(106498)]

Um nope, I'm not sure it is, I just got this game recently. It's got a green checkmark, but I'll try to reinstall it.