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TheBigC

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I'm getting into back CK2 after a long hiatus and am getting a chance to play around with the retinue mechanics. I'm playing as Aragon and have made a number of Cavalry retinues, mostly to make up for the fact that Iberian culture group tends of have lower amounts of Heavy Cavalry (prefering LC instead). I'm doing ok but I was wondering if there have been any strategies written for building good retinues and what a proper force-mix was. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
 

Divi

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I'm getting into back CK2 after a long hiatus and am getting a chance to play around with the retinue mechanics. I'm playing as Aragon and have made a number of Cavalry retinues, mostly to make up for the fact that Iberian culture group tends of have lower amounts of Heavy Cavalry (prefering LC instead). I'm doing ok but I was wondering if there have been any strategies written for building good retinues and what a proper force-mix was. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Note that your iberian light cavalry retinue has a 60% attack bonus which gives it an attack score stronger or almost as strong as knights on every level. Also it seems the usual recommendation is full cavalry or a mix of cultural and cavalry if your cultural retinue isn't cavalry to begin with.
 

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I feel like a huge noob for asking this, but how do you get retinues? The tool tip in the military tab is not helpful in the least.
 

noobermenschen

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I feel like a huge noob for asking this, but how do you get retinues? The tool tip in the military tab is not helpful in the least.
I am curious as well, no response yet from the quick answers thread so I'll ask again here:

How do you acquire retinue slots? Is it simply the # of provinces in your demesne or realm or do titles (# of duke titles or vassals, king titles etc.) affect it? How does the Military Organization tech affect it?

How much do retinues lower your levies? Is it personal levies or vassals as well?

Is it safe to assume with retinues (or even without considering the supply limit increase) that Military Organization should always be a focus tech?
 

Divi

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It's calculated based on the total number of troops and ships (1 for 1) every holding you control (vassal and demesne) can raise. It's also unaffected by opinion. It reduces all levies (and sadly, ships).
 

unmerged(494787)

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Wait a second.

Code:
	LIGHT_CAVALRY_PHASE_SKIRMISH_ATTACK = 1,
	LIGHT_CAVALRY_PHASE_MELEE_ATTACK = 3,
	LIGHT_CAVALRY_PHASE_PURSUE_ATTACK = 10,

Code:
	KNIGHTS_PHASE_SKIRMISH_ATTACK = 0.5,
	KNIGHTS_PHASE_MELEE_ATTACK = 10,
	KNIGHTS_PHASE_PURSUE_ATTACK = 8,

So let's see. Light Cav Melee attack is 3, 60% that makes it 4.8. The only melee phase LC-boosting tactic available to Iberians is Raid, which is a 240% bonus, which brings it to 11.52

Knight's Melee attack is 10. List cultures get a 60% boost to attack, bringing Knights to 16. Byzantines get a 30% boost, making it 13. Couched Lance Charge is a 420% attack bonus, making List-culture knights attacking at 67.2. The Byzantines with Emboleon Charge are attacking at a rather sedate 31.2 by comparisons.

Arab Light Cav gets a unique tactic, but they have a defensive culture bonus and it only works in the Desert. Iberian cultures and Hungarian get no unique tactic.

Now, you say "But Light Cav have a better Skirmish Attack". This is certainly true. However, with the best attack tactic, with the culture boost, it brings you to 4.8 - Less than the base skirmish attack of Archers, and less than Horse Archers with a boosting tactic.

None of this should be construed to say that Light Cav are useless - they're certainly competent allrounders, and fairly easy to obtain, but they're worse allrounders than Horse Archers, and lack the utterly crushing melee power of Knights.

As for how you obtain retinues, switch to the retinue tab of your military screen. Realm Manpower gives you a number of "Retinue Points" based on your average Military Organization score. Each soldier in a retinue costs a certain number of points. Early on if you're a one-province count, odds are good you won't have enough retinue points for even one retinue.
 

Gunnarr

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I agree with Jack Folstam.
 

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I think what Divi is trying to say is that, even though light cav are pretty awful all around, the retinue culture boost that Iberians get still makes them competitive with the other options that the general retinues give you. Of course they're absolutely terrible when compared to Cataphracts or basically anything that isn't a Light Infantry retinue. But when you're playing in Iberia, you don't have those other options.
 

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I feel like a huge noob for asking this, but how do you get retinues? The tool tip in the military tab is not helpful in the least.

I think the tech "Military organization" increases the limit too.
 

Comradebot

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Aye, sadly Light Cavalry as a retinue along is mostly unimpressive. Camel Riders and Caballero retinues are solid when trying the old "balanced" approach, but with those cultures I've started to regularly focus on Heavy Infantry and Pikeman instead, with their light cavalry cultural retinues in support.

However, if you get Cataphracts, Gussars, or Knights? A force of that kind of concentrated Heavy Cavalry goodness is just too much to pass up on.
 

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My last 2k mix playing as Aragon ( think this was 50-60 years in as my kingdom ) was 2 shock retinues and 2 defense retinues. I was going to add two skirmish after that as my castles provided me with plenty of LC as it stood.
 

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Had a game where I eventually formed Hispania from Aragon recently, and the Caballero are indeed underwhelming. Stick with Shock retinues early one, and by all means add a few Caballero retinues since they are useful, but trying for all out Caballero doomstacks is a, pardon the pun, doomed venture.

My retinue building order was something like this:
3 shock retinues
3 caballero retinues
3 shock retinues
3 cavalry retinues
3 shock retinues
Many more cavalry retinues

Might not be the best mix, but it stood up to most of the muslim armies along with my levies. The LC in the cavalry retinues don't get the advantages of your cultural building (so no +60%), but they're still quite useful in the pursuit and skirmish phases. I've seen recommendations to stack only Caballero units in order to get the right tactic, but I really doubt that would work all that well.
 

Portal

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If you rely on numbers for light cav, though, they're effective due to their pursuit bonus.
 

Achab

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One word - Archers.

You have swarms of them, what is also wonderful for siege assaults.
 

Beagá

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But I recall someone saying that with too many archers the skirmish phase ends soon, is that true?
 

Zakath

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But I recall someone saying that with too many archers the skirmish phase ends soon, is that true?

Yes. If you have ~60% archers on a flank the opponent may pick the "Charge unprotected flank" after 3 days, which is naturally a bad thing for your archers.
 

Beagá

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Well then it´s a viable option only to a point then. As France I certainly won´t give up knight retinues for archers. 17 attack on melee? Yes please :)
 

unmerged(575134)

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Going to have to second archers, in particular Longbow retinues. ive been playing as the welsh recently, and Ive carved out a rather sizeable kingdom. I only create Longbow retinues, and have currently ~30000 archers from them. They ABSOLUTELY decimate everything they come in contact with. Im talking, in combat of 30k vs 30k, my typical combat results are around -1100 losses for me and around -18000+ losses for the enemy, and the combat is over extremely quickly. Its ludicrous how horrific these things are. Also, they assault holdings in mere seconds. Ill post some screenshots if you guys want, but longbow retinues are absolutely ludicrous, they completely stomp anything they come in contact with
 

deknegt

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Going to have to second archers, in particular Longbow retinues. ive been playing as the welsh recently, and Ive carved out a rather sizeable kingdom. I only create Longbow retinues, and have currently ~30000 archers from them. They ABSOLUTELY decimate everything they come in contact with. Im talking, in combat of 30k vs 30k, my typical combat results are around -1100 losses for me and around -18000+ losses for the enemy, and the combat is over extremely quickly. Its ludicrous how horrific these things are. Also, they assault holdings in mere seconds. Ill post some screenshots if you guys want, but longbow retinues are absolutely ludicrous, they completely stomp anything they come in contact with

That sounds absolutely sick and abusive. Would love to see some screenies :)
 

unmerged(575134)

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Heres a screenshot of my most recent battle of that nature. Things of note, my King is leading, with martial 17. Take a look though 2012-12-19_00001.jpg